List Mgmt. State of the list

[marty36]

So many differring views and many have merit. For me I think we actually do a good job in drafting players, getting them up to speed and evetually playing them. One concern I have about that process is that it can become elongated and I feel we run the risk of losing them. It Doedee a couple of years to get a game. Right at that point of time he couldve decided to ask to be traded or he could have dome what he did. Not every player will react like that. So whilst I believe we have a good system we still need to bring the players through. Lets look at McHenry. Will he hang around if he has to wait 3 years. Take a look at Port they have already played their main draft picks and good on them.

For me the area that we dont seem to make the most of is our trading. We all know about Gibbs and that took a year too long to put into place. Paul Seedsman, Jacobs, Jenkins and Betts have all been successful, but Gibson, Lowden, Tambling, Cheney (perhaps he was a semi successful) Troy Menzel, Curtly Hampton, Dean Gore haven't been. Comparing this lists of ins to our lists of outs ...Gunston, Dangerfield, McGovern, Lever, Cameron and Lyons. Now we have McAdam and Stengle who were targetted but havent made an appearance. When we trade surely its because we feel that player can slot in immediately.

I know I have missed out some players and I know that injuries dont help but my point is that recently we have taken players with our trades that appear to be a waste. Why dont we target players like Jordon Murdoch, Neale, McCarthy and many others......Anyway this is the area I feel we are doing poorly. Yes back in 2012 we got a few but more recently we haven't traded for any one exceptional other than Gibbs and at the time many warned us about his age.We need to do better

Lets be honest doedee couldnt get a game in 2017 we should have won the flag that year did the selectors do anything wrong

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[Tex200]

Lets be honest doedee couldnt get a game in 2017 we should have won the flag that year did the selectors do anything wrong

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We didn’t win a flag though did we. So everyone is accountable for that - top to bottom

 

[marty36]

We didn’t win a flag though did we. So everyone is accountable for that - top to bottom

Youre getting it arent you

Hamish included

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[Mike Smyth]

No.Do YOU believe a player of average ability should get to 200 games

Yes.

I know I have missed out some players and I know that injuries dont help but my point is that recently we have taken players with our trades that appear to be a waste. Why dont we target players like Jordon Murdoch, Neale, McCarthy and many others......Anyway this is the area I feel we are doing poorly. Yes back in 2012 we got a few but more recently we haven't traded for any one exceptional other than Gibbs and at the time many warned us about his age.We need to do better

The reason we do that is because we go for the low hanging fruit. We are rubbish at trading and negotiation a trade so we trade for players who we can get without to much effort and skill and then hope they turn from a C grader to an A grader. Even Jacobs, Betts and Seedsman were on the outer at their respective clubs when we traded for them so I doubt the negotiation process was to difficult. We have very ordinary off field people.

 

[AFC979810]

And ol mate AFC979810 disappears when Mackay returns to the real Mackay.

Been away all week - sorry pal.

Mackay didn't have a great game, but wasn't alone.

 

[Johnny Rutten]

Current squad numbers below are comprised of current senior players + rookie players that have either played this year or been named as an emergency.

What this represents is that we have the lowest proportion of under-26-year-olds in the league. Not an issue when performing, but when you start a season 1-3 this is a bit of a worry.

 

[marty36]

Current squad numbers below are comprised of current senior players + rookie players that have either played this year or been named as an emergency.

What this represents is that we have the lowest proportion of under-26-year-olds in the league. Not an issue when performing, but when you start a season 1-3 this is a bit of a worry.

View attachment 654249

Mate we have the best drafting man in the business

You know nothing

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[Eagleboy2011]

Mate we have the best drafting man in the business

You know nothing

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So we keep hearing from our board. I wonder how other boards rate our recruiting.
We also have Justin Reid giving away draft picks and hampering getting the best available.

 

[marty36]

So we keep hearing from our board. I wonder how other boards rate our recruiting.
We also have Justin Reid giving away draft picks and hampering getting the best available.

They rate where we finish which lets us know what the list is like

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[Scorpus]

You just know we will completely misread our list, think we aren't that far off and trade pick 1 and 19 for Brodie Grundy

 

[Pugsley]

Yea, losing Mackay's 12 possessions last week would've really hurt us.

I've seen David at his best

 

[marty36]

You just know we will completely misread our list, think we aren't that far off and trade pick 1 and 19 for Brodie Grundy

But we draft the best out of any club going

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[GROTTO]

For me what hurts the most is that realization that our list is shot is happening now.

If only we had this hindsight back last year and went into the super draft with more picks and higher placed ones.

 

[Elite Crow]

Current squad numbers below are comprised of current senior players + rookie players that have either played this year or been named as an emergency.

What this represents is that we have the lowest proportion of under-26-year-olds in the league. Not an issue when performing, but when you start a season 1-3 this is a bit of a worry.

View attachment 654249

When you’ve lost 5 quaility picks and lost 3 quality players who would all be 25 and under is it any surprise?

 

[Elite Crow]

Mate we have the best drafting man in the business

You know nothing

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And here we go again, 5 draft picks and 3 quality players all gone has nothing to do with Ogilvie.

 

[Mismatched]

I would love to know if the club has reviewed the draft notes of the Dangers et al and ensure we don't make the same mistakes again.

Lever and Dangerfield have some fairly obvious similarities, but im sure there'd be something in it if they did investigate it.

Was recruiting Danger a mistake? We selected a future Brownlow Medalist and consistent top 5 player in the comp with pick 10. There's no assurances that Rioli, Rance, Ward or Harry Taylor would have hung around either.

On top of that, do the Hawks regret drafting Franklin because he left? Eagles Chris Judd? The issue is we weren't able to capitalise on the years we had with Danger and then we let him go for peanuts.

I think its nigh on impossible to predict which players will stay and which will go home. Short of ruling out the guys who clearly aren't going to cope, I'm not sure you can worry too much about it. There's simply too many variables that occur after drafting.

The issue is also that the more successful you are at picking quality players, the more likely teams are going to come knocking with big offers. Note we've managed to keep Dave Mackay, Andy Otten, Brent Reilly, Richard Douglas...

I was a huge Neil Craig fan; should've won a flag, but clearly lost his way towards the end.

Seems like he was such a strong and influential figure, that his approach and methodology became ingrained in the culture of the AFC; and we still operate under it.

Yeah, I mentioned this in another post. Our club is still massively influenced and driven by the philosophies of Neil Craig and unfortunately, until we can bring in personalities to clear that away I think we're going to struggle. Walsh was potentially the one, but sadly, for so many reasons, that wasn't to last.

Pyke was as close to a Neil Craig clone as we could have found.

 

[marty36]

And here we go again, 5 draft picks and 3 quality players all gone has nothing to do with Ogilvie.

So that has completely stuffed our list in losing those draft pics, losing players happens at every club as do injuries

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[Tex200]

It’s horrid that we have a kid like Sholl who is one of the most natural running wing/half backs I’ve seen. 34 last week, 25 yesterday. Making the SANFL look breezy.

Will we play him? No of course not.

Gallucci 1 game in 2017, EH 1 game in 2018.

What kind of forward planning is that. Who in any walk of life doesn’t do their best in the present while always having 1 eye on the future.

 

[marty36]

It’s horrid that we have a kid like Sholl who is one of the most natural running wing/half backs I’ve seen. 34 last week, 25 yesterday. Making the SANFL look breezy.

Will we play him? No of course not.

Gallucci 1 game in 2017, EH 1 game in 2018.

What kind of forward planning is that. Who in any walk of life doesn’t do their best in the present while always having 1 eye on the future.

They obviously werent consider in their firts year good enough majority of draftees arent

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[BrissyCrow]

Mate we have the best drafting man in the business

You know nothing

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That might be so but what about our trading. We seem to suck at it. Perhaps we make offers that get knocked back and I guess we will never know but from what I see other clubs do in the trading period compared to us....well I just believe we suck at it.

 

[Elite Crow]

So that has completely stuffed our list in losing those draft pics, losing players happens at every club as do injuries

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We are talking about the players under 25, we’ve lost 5 draft picks , name me another club to have. No wonder we are behind the rest of the comp. Also name another club that isn’t an expansion club whose lost 3 quality players under 25.

That’s 8 players who would be in that age demographic.

That’s the facts, to ignore that and continue to blame Ogilvie is idiotic.

 

[Elite Crow]

They obviously werent consider in their firts year good enough majority of draftees arent

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Or are we conservative and happy to be competitive? I’m pretty sure you’ve mentioned we are before.

 

[marty36]

We are talking about the players under 25, we’ve lost 5 draft picks , name me another club to have. No wonder we are behind the rest of the comp. Also name another club that isn’t an expansion club whose lost 3 quality players under 25.

That’s 8 players who would be in that age demographic.

That’s the facts, to ignore that and continue to blame Ogilvie is idiotic.

Seriously look at what carlton have lost, we fade into insignificance

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[marty36]

Or are we conservative and happy to be competitive? I’m pretty sure you’ve mentioned we are before.

Id be happy to play 1st year players buts its probably not wise jones is struggling with playing against men and it looks like mchenry did aswell

Im a hard nut but give the kids time to get used to built guys not kids

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[Elite Crow]

Seriously look at what carlton have lost, we fade into insignificance

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And that was when and how have they gone since?

So there is no other team in the comp that currently has had the level of players under 25 that they’ve lost but you then attribute this to the drafting team, 8 players, 8. How do you not get that?