Media Swans Talk in the Media 2024

[bedford]

Is there any link to listen to what Buckley said? Cant find it

Should be on the SEN page

 

[Adnico26Parker]

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Roooooooooooooooooooooooooooooos

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/paul-roos-brutal-sydney-swans-list-call-after-heavy-grand-final-loss/news-story/6b161f4cb04470692892334961d078c7

 

[GoTheSwannies]

Roooooooooooooooooooooooooooooos

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/paul-roos-brutal-sydney-swans-list-call-after-heavy-grand-final-loss/news-story/6b161f4cb04470692892334961d078c7

I agree with Roos' assessment there. And those are the two areas I'd target if I were Horse. Firstly, the game plan needs work. Against Port and against the Lions, our gameplan was exposed. We play a high risk high reward game and it failed spectacularly twice. We need to adjust the defensive game, give up a bit of attack to sure up defensively.

And the second point around personnel. We have too many passengers when the chips are down. We need to identify who they are and offload them. Replace them with honest hard working players that won't wilt under pressure. Fox is a prime example of a player who should have a permanent spot in the team. And sadly Adams could have been another. We need to place greater emphasis on players who can perform under adversity, not the long list of players who look flashy when we're up and about and the ball is going our way.

 

[GoTheSwannies]

The other thing I'll add is Horse's emphasis on flexibility needs to be reigned in somewhat. We need specialists who stick to their role and their strengths are suited to the role they play. A prime example is the forward line. We needed more agile pressure players. Instead, Horse thinks thw forward line is just a place where you rest mids or players you'd prefer to chase out of the team.

Now that wouldn't be such an issue if he hadn't persisted on having 3 talls. So you've got a tall / slow forward line. Then you compound that issue by playing slower resting mids there as well.

The team balance wasn't there.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

I agree with Roos' assessment there. And those are the two areas I'd target if I were Horse. Firstly, the game plan needs work. Against Port and against the Lions, our gameplan was exposed. We play a high risk high reward game and it failed spectacularly twice. We need to adjust the defensive game, give up a bit of attack to sure up defensively.

And the second point around personnel. We have too many passengers when the chips are down. We need to identify who they are and offload them. Replace them with honest hard working players that won't wilt under pressure. Fox is a prime example of a player who should have a permanent spot in the team. And sadly Adams could have been another. We need to place greater emphasis on players who can perform under adversity, not the long list of players who look flashy when we're up and about and the ball is going our way.

Its nowhere near as simple as a change or two i dont know how this group can rebound in 2025, will be interesting how the off-season goes and will be looking at media reports especially as our fitness guy is leaving.

I can see why the club was pushing the best of 3 narrative hard.

 

[GoTheSwannies]

Its nowhere near as simple as a change or two i dont know how this group can rebound in 2025, will be interesting how the off-season goes and will be looking at media reports especially as our fitness guy is leaving.

I can see why the club was pushing the best of 3 narrative hard.

IMO It's not just a change or 2, it's a whole change in the ethos of the club and playing group.

The game plan needs to change, and we need to get better defensively. Our do or die gameplan failed because we allowed teams to get a run on us too frequently throughout the season. That needs to be tightened up.

But I'd be putting a premium on toughness and pressure. It's what every player should arrive at training expecting to do. And on game day, I'd be focusing attention on doing the tough stuff.

This group have shown that they can be flashy and pile on goals. But apart from the Port game (who were cooked by the prelim), there was no game all season where we put in a 4 quarter performance. That's what I would focus on. It's not the goals you kicked, it's not the flashy handball. It's the tackle you made on your opponent. It was the smother, it was gut running to close down an opponent.

Those are the things I'd reward throughout the season.

Then when the grand final rolls around. You say, we held this team to a high standard all year. You were relentless all year. Players who failed to uphold those standards were asked to find that work ethic in the 2s. We prepared brutally for this moment. Now you just have to run out and perform relentlessly for 4 quarters and the premiership will be yours. Fail to live up to those standards and we know what the outcome will be.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

A couple of quotes that give clues as to why we continue to fail in grand finals.

"Throughout the finals series, we did a lot of work with Emma Murray. We were like, ‘One game won’t define us.’ This was four weeks ago and we just had this mentality." Fox

As others have said, this is not the message you want to send your players into a grand final with. It's what you do to console your players after a loss, but you don't give them an out before the first bounce.

And this quote from longmire (bolded below):

Bloodied Swans crawl off the canvas after another AFL grand final capitulation | Jack Snape

After another thrashing in the decider, Sydney’s disillusioned fanbase want answers on why their team can’t convert great seasons into premierships

www.theguardian.com

Stand-in captain Dane Rampe pulled on the metaphorical gloves in the post-match presentation. “We’ve fallen short again, but I stand here beaming with pride that we put ourselves back in the ring, dusted ourselves off the canvas after ‘22, and we put ourselves in a position to keep swinging.”

Coach John Longmire took the cue and fought on minutes later in his post-match press conference: “You’d much rather get into the ring and have a swing than be standing outside looking in.”

Both messages condone mediocrity. And horses comment in particular was tone def. Your team effectively threw the towel in after round 3 of the heavyweight championship. They took 2 swings at the start of the fight then unsuccessfully attempted to block a few punches, then said stuff this, threw in the towel and said this fight wont define us. We threw a couple of punches. Hope you enjoyed the show. See you next year

My concern with both quotes is that they reference the past. They weren’t playing for the moment.

They needed to have faced the brutal lessons of 2022, and then move forward. I don’t think they did.

Rampe made it clear that 2022 was still forefront in his mind. With that mindset he had lost before he stepped out into the field, and it showed in his performance being one of the worst in his career. He hadn’t done the work / had completely the wrong focus.

When the team were asked about 2022 in the lead up to the game, their answers were also poor. There were vague references to learning the lessons but any specifics shared were underwhelming.

Also, the lessons should have been shared publicly in late 2022 / early 2023 with the team showing how they were confronting them, so that when they made their next grand final, they could cross reference the work done and make it clear it is all in the past.

Their answers to questions about 2022 in the lead up to this years GF could then have been something like:

“We appreciate it is of interest to you, but to be perfectly honest, we stopped referencing it as a team some time ago now.

“We have done to work to learn from it. We have been pretty open about that, and we have moved on.

“Our focus is solely on Brisbane this Saturday. Brisbane are a very strong, well coached team. There is a lot we will need to get right between now and Saturday in order to win. That is all we are focusing on.

“So, do you have any questions about the game this weekend?”

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

Was always optimistic this year as I thought they’d learned and were ready for a full pressure effort. Those were the signals I was getting.
Until we all saw what unfolded.
To allow an uncontested game after Clarko did this to us for a decade is unforgiveable, as is the bruise free mentality. Now I read “this game won’t define us crap.”

Literally everything went our way this year as well.

It’s not the losing (Lions we’re great) but the way in which we lost that demands a cleanout. The worry is the board down are happy to make finals and keep the membership up with flags a secondary measure.

How can you ever trust this evolution of the team again ?

The team will quickly discover next year that the “this will not define us” crap was a total farce.

I think it was Caroline Wilson who rightly said that it does not matter how well the Swans play next year throughout the season, they won’t be able to respond this years GF until they play in their next GF.

In the meantime, if they perform poorly the questions will be about if they haven’t recovered from 2024 and 2022. And if they play well, the questions will be about if it will hold up on the big day.

Until their next GF, this team’s definition in most people’s minds will be a group who is mentally weak and gets stage fright on the big day.

The only way to turn this around is to be visceral and transparent about the lessons and show progress is being made. Typical Sydney Swans secrecy will only make the issue fester.

I think the Collingwood Review is a good example of ripping off the bandaid. Get it right out in the open, change what you need to change, cull anyone you need to cull, and move forward.

Anything less is acceptance of mediocrity.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

Not sure whether this should be in here or its own thread but ties into the Robbie Fox interview and a few of the players interviews before and after the game. Long post.

The 'one game won't define us' chat is either being misrepresented by the players or they're missing a key component of it (whether through delivery from the players to the media, or the coaches to them).

The same messaging I and schools/intervention programs etc have used both with at risk teenagers speaking about traumatic experiences, mistakes in judgement or with high achieving students when focussing on ATAR results/End of Schooling Exams.

"‘One game won’t define us.’ This was four weeks ago, and we just had this mentality."

This is a great way to cope with failure and setbacks- it is a great way to prepare people for results going against them/outside their control. ATAR results won't define you- error in judgement/mistake/one action won't define you. This is a great way of making people be able to cope with failure- however, it doesn't prevent failure/take a proactive mindset to success either.

“We would like to win a grand final, but it won’t define us. You always have to take those learnings, and hopefully, everyone believes that good things are coming. It wasn’t this year, but hopefully, it’s in the years to come."

This is completely off. The athletes are looking at a grand final and performance as something outside of their control on the day. They are looking at it as they have done all the work and then what happens on the day happens- this is not right at all. It isn't 'Hopefully' good things are coming- good things ARE coming because the work has been done, because on the day the athletes are the best prepared, they can be and now it is the time to put everything into practice. They should be excited on the day to perform, to work hard to implement their work because they've done the work. They aren't hopeful things will work out- things WILL work out because of the things they can and have controlled (if they fail you then talk about losses not defining you.)

E.G Students complete all the study/work, teenager goes through all the mindfulness/rehabilitation and a big event comes up- you believe that you're capable of delivering on the day/achieving because of the work you have done- but you still do the work. You still dissect the question, highlight key cognitive verbs, plan out answers with the same structure etc. You don't just turn up and whatever happens- happens.

"We had such a good year to put ourselves in this position, and then it’s just that cherry on top. "

Concerning from an AFL perspective. The Grand Final is not the cherry on top- the Grand Final is the prize and the result. The study/training/other games aren't the cake- THIS is the cake. (Brownlow, All Australian, Norm Smith is the Cherry for players).

Same as 'appreciating the enormity of the week' was good and not burning energy- but it'd be good to hear the players talk about the 'enormity of the game'. The Grand Final parade isn't the thing to burn energy on or the enormous event- the game is the enormous part of the week.

I think the work they have done with open discussions/communications/check ins with each other during the game is great- shows players are able to express themselves on the field and the team remains connected. What is concerning is that it certainly looks like the players aren't communicating with each other the importance of the grand final to them. OR the importance of the grand final from the staff/club/fans etc. The players aren't going to be desperate on Grand Final Day if they believe that it is the cherry on top, it is not a season defining day and that it is something that they simply 'hope' comes together on the day. I get they're doing this to alleviate the sting of failure and to help players cope with 2022 (and now 2024) but all they're doing is undermining competitive fire of some of the players.

The team needs to be confident they've done the work to get here, know they've got a team of players they can be open with, that the players and coaches have all been honest about how much this game means to them and then go out and show how much the game means. It is healthy to be nervous, it is healthy to care, and it is healthy to understand that it is not just another game. It is healthy to be upset/angry/disappointed when you lose. It is healthy to be happy when you win- you're defined by the many actions you make, the biggest defining action for an AFL team is performing when it matters. THIS matters to them.

If they lose and they gave everything- they aren't defined as losers, and it doesn't define them. If they go out there- are defeatist and believe things are out of their control, then it absolutely defines them and is completely damning.

"The funny thing is, we actually started well for once. I don't think we could have prepped any better, mentally we went into the game great, physically as well…the footy gods had something else to say," Warner said.

Maybe a lot of it just comes down to players emotional/not articulating themselves and the messaging properly in the media- but there's quite a few quotes from players which just seem to be a serious disconnect. The way I've worked with young adults and adolescents in approaching failure, key tests and pressure situations seems to have far higher expectation on internal locus of control, understanding why they want something and expectation of performance than in a professional sporting team.


Edit: Just to clarify from what I've seen of Emma Murray she seems great (imperfects podcast, other athlete testimonials). I just wonder have we put enough time into this for it to be effective (as it has for other athletes/sporting clubs). Have we done enough focus on big games/important moments? You'd think this would be big priority next year if the club continues to go down this route.

Great post, which I read after my long post just before this one.

Another long post / rant with additional reflections:

• I am not sure the team savoured the pain from 2022 as part of the human experience. A kid doing a test they have to do is one thing, but being a professional AFL player is a choice and they should look at the pain of 2022 as the inverse of what they will feel if they won in 2024, and be willing to risk it all - even if they get hurt again. Instead, it seemed like their mindset was not wanting to get hurt again.
• I was shocked by the lack of focus about what they needed to do in each moment. This crap about “the universe”, “not our day”, “hopefully it will happen”, etc is pathetic. The language had to be along the lines of “we know if we show up in each moment with the ferocity and focus a GF demands, then we have a really good shot of beating Brisbane”.
• Maybe it glazed over me, but there seemed to be so much focus on ourselves and very little focus on Brisbane. The word self-indulgent I think is at the crux of the team’s mental fragilities (not just the GF, see also Heeney suspension soap story, singles to mingle campaign, etc, etc). Every answer to every question should have been tied back to our deep respect for Brisbane and our focus on what we need to do to give ourselves the best chance of beating them. Instead we deeply reflected about each question as though we would get marked on how well we answered the question, instead of what we needed to be thinking about to win.
• Another good example was the Mills “injury comeback”. I have been biting my tongue but I could not be more disappointed with Mills. He made himself the story, which was selfish. He then told the media he was 100% at Wed’s trading session, before the coaches made the decision. This then made it clear that he disagreed with their verdict. Unbelievably selfish for a captain. He should have said: “Let’s see, I’ll have some discussions with the medical staff and coaches and we will decide what is best for the team”. Even better, he should have called himself too big a risk at the start of week and helped the team focus on winning. And of course, this was on top of him missing most of the season, and probably picking up the hamstring injury, as a result of his own unprofessional conduct at the start of the year and rushing back from injury. Then to really cap it off, Rampe - the stand in captain - then decides to share with the world that he had a cry with Mills after the coaches made the call. So instead of focusing publicly on how he has already moved on and is focused on what he needs to do to captain the team to a win, Rampe uses his limited airtime to highlight how he consoled Mills on missing out, when Mills had played also no on-field role in getting the team to the GF (actually he detected by using up cap space that could have gone to a player that wouldn’t injure themself). It is no wonder with leadership like this, that the team could become self-indulgent. And when you become self-indulgent, you focus on your fears, instead on meeting the need of every moment, and playing for your club, fans and jumper.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

Its nowhere near as simple as a change or two i dont know how this group can rebound in 2025, will be interesting how the off-season goes and will be looking at media reports especially as our fitness guy is leaving.

I can see why the club was pushing the best of 3 narrative hard.

I think the club would be wise to keep quite about finals at the MCG for a while.

Our GF losses are on us.

And a best of 3 GF series was never going to happen (I saw it as an ambit claim to create noise about one of our disadvantages, so that the academies were not hit too much).

 

[BloodySwan]

The other thing I'll add is Horse's emphasis on flexibility needs to be reigned in somewhat. We need specialists who stick to their role and their strengths are suited to the role they play. A prime example is the forward line. We needed more agile pressure players. Instead, Horse thinks thw forward line is just a place where you rest mids or players you'd prefer to chase out of the team.

Now that wouldn't be such an issue if he hadn't persisted on having 3 talls. So you've got a tall / slow forward line. Then you compound that issue by playing slower resting mids there as well.

The team balance wasn't there.

Flexible players have a better chance of fitting into the 22 than specialists do. We have no shortage of specialists, Grundy, Melican, Blakey, Rowbottom, the list goes on but many players stick to one specific role. It's just when starting out it's easier to get into the 22 or if you're not having an impact shift roles

 

[ashep]

• Sorry we ****ed it but thanks for your membership dues - please come back next year
• Blakey off his face in the club
• Club champion and last remaining premiership player requests trade
• Hey check out my new mattress!

Jesus wept. I don't need the club or the players to fall at our feet and grovel but the fact that the above is the grand total of what we've heard since Saturday is a joke.