Opinion Sydney Swans Academy and Rebuild

[GC2015]

I'm a Crows supporter but even I can see why we have Northern academies.

Dawson came 'home' last year for what is likely to be pick 20, Swans were robbed

Rankine is coming 'home' this year for what could be unders.

Lot's of Vic players 'go home' from the other states, particularly the northern states and rarely is the trade favourable to the northern clubs. Vic clubs target high value draftees the moment their names are called by a non Vic club. It's an endless and damaging cycle that benefits Victorian clubs. It hurts northern clubs because such a high percentage of their players are from other states, unlike the entitled Vic clubs who have a low percentage of players from other states and therefore have minimal 'go home' factor.

But the entitled Vic clubs, particularly the Maguire's pressured the AFL into NGA's which ARE A RORT!

Vic club posters GAGF, you are all just so entitled!

The northern academies are really an equalisation tool. It's used to combat the natural advantages that come with being based in a 'footy state' and the fact that Victoria, SA & WA provide the vast majority of draftees every year. None of the teams based in Queensland or NSW have even half of their players originate from their home state so every year there's the very real possibility of the 'go home' factor making a mockery of what is supposed to be a fair national draft system that feeds exceptional talents into the worst teams in the league, regardless of which state they are based in.

Whether it's Gold Coast's Izak Rankine (pick 3) going home to SA this year, Sydney's Jordan Dawson going home to SA last year, GWS's Jeremy Cameron (Coleman Medallist) going home to Victoria the year before or Brisbane's Josh Schache (pick 2) going home to Victoria the year before that; this is a regular occurrence for the teams based in Queensland and NSW. Northern academy graduates like Isaac Heeney, Callum Mills, Tom Green, Harry Perryman, Eric Hipwood, Harris Andrews and Jack Bowes help counteract the natural disadvantage of being based in Queensland or NSW.

 

[sataris]

All you have to remember is that 99% of bigfooty posters don't know how big the SCG is and simply reguritate what they have been told by Channel 7 et al.

The idea that they can understand the intricacies of northern academies, talent pathways and junior level participation in NSW or QLD is beyond the mental short people of figBooty and the posters in this thread offering their 'thoughts/opinions'.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Sydney's longevity is down to their Academy, something of the scale only really available to one other club in the comp because of the catchment size and weight of numbers (GWS)

You don’t think being widely recognised as one of the best-run football clubs in the country was also a factor?

This sort of sweepingly dismissive statement is what schittes me about this topic. There are dozens of inequities in the AFL, a number of equalisations in place, and a multitude of controllable and uncontrollable factors at play in a club’s success.

By all means put forward reasons why the academy arrangement needs to be tweaked, or if you think the whole thing should not even exist, be prepared to state why.

But sweeping claims suggesting ALL our success is entirely down to the academy do their author no credit.

 

[SM]

You don’t think being widely recognised as one of the best-run football clubs in the country was also a factor?

This sort of sweepingly dismissive statement is what schittes me about this topic. There are dozens of inequities in the AFL, a number of equalisations in place, and a multitude of controllable and uncontrollable factors at play in a club’s success.

By all means put forward reasons why the academy arrangement needs to be tweaked, or if you think the whole thing should not even exist, be prepared to state why.

But sweeping claims suggesting ALL our success is entirely down to the academy do their author no credit.

He's just looking for excuses/justification for why his own club hasn't won a flag since the 90s. It's a bit sad.

 

[RUNVS]

You don’t think being widely recognised as one of the best-run football clubs in the country was also a factor?

This sort of sweepingly dismissive statement is what schittes me about this topic. There are dozens of inequities in the AFL, a number of equalisations in place, and a multitude of controllable and uncontrollable factors at play in a club’s success.

By all means put forward reasons why the academy arrangement needs to be tweaked, or if you think the whole thing should not even exist, be prepared to state why.

But sweeping claims suggesting ALL our success is entirely down to the academy do their author no credit.

A few players we have picked up outside of the top 20 in the last 6 or 7 years

Dawson
Papley
Hayward
McCartin
McInerney
Rowbottom
Warner
Gulden

So we are doing pretty well with later picks.

 

[Maddo11]

Can't seem to find the info online, can somebody please tell me to date how many players have been recruited total from the four Northern academies since their inception please?

 

[juddy_Like]

Oh gee this thread has certainly kicked off today.

Since moving to Sydney, there's really two distinct worlds.
'The Swans world' will be no different to any other southern team. Good crowds, well run, nicely located (i.e. going to Moorabbin instead of Seaford), professional outfit who know what they are doing and don't really suffer from the go-home factor. Well no more than any other club anyways.
'The Giants world' is the complete opposite.
No crowds to the point you are begging people to come, still growing as a club, Homebush has as much soul as a corpse and with the sheer amount of first round picks, there will always be a turnover of players wanting to be traded (be it go-home or more playing time). I'm not sure how much the academy helps with the 'go-home' factor since all their players are from regional NSW anyways. Just look at Hopper.

Ultimately the academies are required but its not the be-all that the Swans make it out to be. This is just a personal take but if the AFL implemented say the Brett Kirk

Brett Kirk

Age

48

Ht

184cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.5

5star

K

8.9

3star

HB

9.6

5star

M

2.7

3star

T

5.3

5star

CL

2.4

4star

No current season stats available

D

16.8

4star

K

13.0

5star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.2

4star

academy in place of the QBE Swans academy, it would still be a success. Will it be just as much? Perhaps but in the end I think its a moot point anyways since I don't think it will happen. I've repeatedly said this before but the lack of talent in Sydney isn't the issue, more so the facilities and horrors of councils to deal with just to get games going (i.e. if it rains, games get cancelled). This is an issue the AFL really needs to get involved in.

Again if the cost for say Mills or Campbell was fair, I don't think the uproar will be just as much. Like would be an issue if Mills who is a Top 3 pick can be obtained with picks from the next 18 picks only?

 

[SM]

Oh gee this thread has certainly kicked off today.

Since moving to Sydney, there's really two distinct worlds.
'The Swans world' will be no different to any other southern team. Good crowds, well run, nicely located (i.e. going to Moorabbin instead of Seaford), professional outfit who know what they are doing and don't really suffer from the go-home factor. Well no more than any other club anyways.
'The Giants world' is the complete opposite.
No crowds to the point you are begging people to come, still growing as a club, Homebush has as much soul as a corpse and with the sheer amount of first round picks, there will always be a turnover of players wanting to be traded (be it go-home or more playing time). I'm not sure how much the academy helps with the 'go-home' factor since all their players are from regional NSW anyways. Just look at Hopper.

Ultimately the academies are required but its not the be-all that the Swans make it out to be. This is just a personal take but if the AFL implemented say the Brett Kirk academy in place of the QBE Swans academy, it would still be a success. Will it be just as much? Perhaps but in the end I think its a moot point anyways since I don't think it will happen. I've repeatedly said this before but the lack of talent in Sydney isn't the issue, more so the facilities and horrors of councils to deal with just to get games going (i.e. if it rains, games get cancelled). This is an issue the AFL really needs to get involved in.

Again if the cost for say Mills or Campbell was fair, I don't think the uproar will be just as much. Like would be an issue if Mills who is a Top 3 pick can be obtained with picks from the next 18 picks only?

And if the Academy was taken away we would still be successful, players like Warner, Papley, Florent, McCartin, Rowbottom, etc.

 

[juddy_Like]

And if the Academy was taken away we would still be successful, players like Warner, Papley, Florent, McCartin, Rowbottom, etc.

Yes absolutely. Same way you guys were successful before and will be (hopefully) after having academies.

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

I think the academies should stay until the rest of the league is perfectly even .

Can someone notify me when that happens?

Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[juddy_Like]

I think the academies should stay until the rest of the league is perfectly even .

Can someone notify me when that happens?

Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Would love for you to define 'even'.

There's advantages the Swans get that say Port players don't.

 

[RUNVS]

Would love for you to define 'even'.

There's advantages the Swans get that say Port players don't.

An advantage that West Coast for instance get over Sydney is the ability to draft mostly from WA if you guys want in order to limit the go home factor, and from memory West Coast do draft a lot from WA compared to most clubs. You also get the go home factor like Kelly, Yeo and Kennedy which Sydney don't get. In fact the last time we had the go home factor was Nick Davis, and that was quite a while ago.

Look at Adelaide as well. Traded for Dawson last year and about to pick up Rankine as well, so they are definitely benefitting from the go home factor.

 

[Lemma]

So if the academies are so necessary to generate the homegrown talent, why don't we let the AFL run it and then players can get drafted anywhere?
Or are the Northern teams not confident they could lure these players home from Vic/SA/WA?

 

[RUNVS]

So if the academies are so necessary to generate the homegrown talent, why don't we let the AFL run it and then players can get drafted anywhere?
Or are the Northern teams not confident they could lure these players home from Vic/SA/WA?

The AFL don't want to run the programs. They think the promise of staying in NSW and QLD helps convince local talent to stay with the Academy since the NRL does provide the option for their young talented players to stay in their home state, and those are the athletes the AFL is competing to get.

 

[WillHayward]

Demons just won a flag. With the help of May and Lever. (May was a boarder and on scholarship at MGS).

Their VFL side currently thrashing our VFL side.

But Demons fans crying "unfair".

Give it a rest.

The scholarship thing is not AFL sanctioned but it's a fact that it helps Melbourne based clubs ( e.g Cyril, Hawkins, May etc).

 

[deflated]

Ultimately the academies are required but its not the be-all that the Swans make it out to be. This is just a personal take but if the AFL implemented say the Brett Kirk academy in place of the QBE Swans academy, it would still be a success.

You'd like to think so but the AFL's efforts at an academy in Sydney, prior to the Swans taking over, were pretty pathetic. Whether it was apathy as NSW "didn't matter" or the Vic management having no clue about grassroots in the northern states their attempts were a failure until the Swans put up their own time and money and turned them into what they are today.

In a perfect world the Australian FL should be there to develop the code across all of Australia; in reality they failed badly in the past outside the heartland states. I haven't seen any evidence that the AFL would be any better today.

 

[Lemma]

The AFL don't want to run the programs. They think the promise of staying in NSW and QLD helps convince local talent to stay with the Academy since the NRL does provide the option for their young talented players to stay in their home state, and those are the athletes the AFL is competing to get.

Well the AFL need to revisit it. It's the only fair way to do it.
So why does an academy player get the choice to stay home when no other player does? If they want to do that, let them play NRL. Who cares

 

[SM]

Well the AFL need to revisit it. It's the only fair way to do it.
So why does an academy player get the choice to stay home when no other player does? If they want to do that, let them play NRL. Who cares

No other player does? F/S picks get to choose to stay home if they want.

 

[Lemma]

Yes except every club has access to F/S (I don't agree with F/S either but it's a different argument) so it's not really relevant

 

[boncer34]

No other player does? F/S picks get to choose to stay home if they want.

Tell that to poor Will Ashcroft.

 

[SM]

Yes except every club has access to F/S (I don't agree with F/S either but it's a different argument) so it's not really relevant

It's relevant when you say no other player has the choice to stay home.

 

[Lemma]

It's relevant when you say no other player has the choice to stay home.

No other player (except for a small amount of players who go F/S) have the choice to stay home. Is that better? Geez

The thread is about academies- I didn't mention F/S because I didn't want to distract from the main point.
Why is it so important that NSW/QLD kids have an academy so they can stay home when (the majority of) other players don't have that option? If they want to stay home play NRL.

 

[SM]

No other player (except for a small amount of players who go F/S) have the choice to stay home. Is that better? Geez

The thread is about academies- I didn't mention F/S because I didn't want to distract from the main point.
Why is it so important that NSW/QLD kids have an academy so they can stay home when (the majority of) other players don't have that option? If they want to stay home play NRL.

The importance isn't so they can stay home, it's to develop talent in NSW/QLD. You're fixating on an entirely irrelevant aspect of the Academies for their intended purpose. If a side effect is we are attracted to recruiting more players from NSW, leaving players from other states to other clubs, that's a tangential benefit, not the primary purpose.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

If they want to do that, let them play NRL. Who cares

A schitteload of people do.

 

[Sherrinator]

There should be a draft points tax for clubs who bring home non free agents. Ie Rankine.