Opinion Sydney Swans Academy and Rebuild

Academies, friend or foe

  • Support the concept don't like the concessions given to clubs

    Votes: 178 45.3%

  • Hate the concept, hate the concessions given to clubs

    Votes: 79 20.1%

  • Support the concept, support the concessions given to clubs

    Votes: 136 34.6%
  • Total voters
    393

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Sphynx said:
I simply used him as an example.


No club in the competition would trade pick 5 for pick 33, 36, 45 and 52.


You can't possibly be writing this with a straight face. "We aren't getting these players handed to us"
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Again you're going with false equivalence. Take the issue up with the points system then not the Academy drafting which makes use of it in the same way as F/S.
 

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SM said:
Again you're going with false equivalence. Take the issue up with the points system then not the Academy drafting which makes use of it in the same way as F/S.
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No my issue is with both.

No club should have exclusive rights to an entire population center, then not only that, early access to professionally develop this talent.

Something that is even banned with F/S selections.
 
Sphynx said:
No my issue is with both.

No club should have exclusive rights to an entire population center, then not only that, early access to professionally develop this talent.

Something that is even banned with F/S selections.
Click to expand...

Exclusive? News to me. When did we get exclusive access to this huge wealth of talent? I assume if that's true we're drafting 3-4 Sydney based players each and every year? Do you know what exclusive means?

So Nick Daicos didn't train with the Pies last year did he?
 
Sphynx said:
No my issue is with both.

No club should have exclusive rights to an entire population center, then not only that, early access to professionally develop this talent.

Something that is even banned with F/S selections.
Click to expand...

So we just go back to all the top talent from the Northern states go to play league or soccer then? How does Gold Coast stay viable? With no extra player numbers coming into the draft how do we introduce a new tassie team without moving a North Melbourne based team?
 
Number37 said:
The argument against academies can be summarised as clubs shouldn't get players on the cheap...just because/that's why we have a draft.
An exception to that rule is father-sons because....can somebody tell me what the reason is?
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Father son picks are a joke as well. Just because there are other compromises in the draft doesn't mean academy bids are except from criticism.
 
SM said:
We had to give up a lot of picks in order to have the points to bid on Mills. We got Heeney under rules that were then changed for everyone, so fair enough, but not sure on still whining about that one.
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Yep. People choose to ignore that. We paid our first rounder, second rounder and Craig Bird (a best 22 player at the time) to get Mills. He was anything but free.
 
JyeDye said:
Father son picks are a joke as well. Just because there are other compromises in the draft doesn't mean academy bids are except from criticism.
Click to expand...

What about trading?
Should clubs be allowed to trade and get a high end draft pick?
Or is that unfair too?
 
RUNVS said:
Yep. People choose to ignore that. We paid our first rounder, second rounder and Craig Bird (a best 22 player at the time) to get Mills. He was anything but free.
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The issue is that you would never had had access to a player of his quality if you'd packaged up your first and second rounder and Craig Bird.

Craig Bird was not a best 22 player at the time, he'd played 6 games that year. He went on to play 20 more AFL games before being delisted.
 

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Happy Mastenator said:
The issue is that you would never had had access to a player of his quality if you'd packaged up your first and second rounder and Craig Bird.

Craig Bird was not a best 22 player at the time, he'd played 6 games that year. He went on to play 20 more AFL games before being delisted.
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We gave up essentially 3 players to get 1. Now you may not agree with the price, but to say Mills was a gift is a pure lie.
 
JyeDye said:
Why do Melbourne who bid on him care at all about what player you traded to another club for picks?
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I don't know, you tell me? Not really sure what question you're asking here.

Teams also get commpensation picks when they lose free agents, is that unfair because no one would have actually traded that pick for that player?
 
RUNVS said:
Isn't it about paying fair price or are you moving the goal posts? Do you think Melbourne are unhappy with Clayton Oliver?
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SM said:
I don't know, you tell me? Not really sure what question you're asking here.

Teams also get commpensation picks when they lose free agents, is that unfair because no one would have actually traded that pick for that player?
Click to expand...
Sorry, I interpreted that as Melbourne would accept that trade offer because Sydney gave up Craig Bird. I didn't understand why Melbourne would care at all about that.

Regardless, like many others here my gripe with the academies is more so the AFL's points system. I completely disagree with the notion that those picks are worthy of that selection and find it amusing when Swans fans act like they are. You didn't give up a lot, stop acting like you did, Craig Bird was not even getting games for your side.

I think that possibly the AFL should introduce similar restriction to NGA's where you cannot match on first round selections. I still see the sentiment of getting priority in a player you helped develop, but I think a first round pick shouldn't be compromised by the bidding process.
 
RUNVS said:
We gave up essentially 3 players to get 1. Now you may not agree with the price, but to say Mills was a gift is a pure lie.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying he is a gift. in 2015 you finished up fifth losing in semi's after finishing fourth on the ladder). You will able to pick up a top 3 pick. You gave up pick 14, 33 and Craig Bird (noting you got pick 23 back for Bird and 14 which you traded for picks in the 30's) Good luck getting anyone to accept that type of offer for pick 3 normally.

Noting also that all those picks you gave up slide further down the draft due to the amount of academy kids that ended up being picked up (hopper, Matt Keneddy, Hipwood, Himmelberg, Keays, all went before that pick 33 you actually used)
 
Sphynx said:
Oh right.

I'm glad Sydney have restricted their historically massive loss of players to go home factors, like? Anthony Rocca, Shannon Grant, Jordan Dawson, Gary Rohan, Nic Newman, Zak Jones and Peter Laddhams?

Should we compare the incomings? Wayne Schwass, Paul Williams, Tony Lockett, Barry Hall, Darren Jolly, Peter Everiit, Rhyce Shaw, Josh Kennedy, Lance Franklin, Kurt Tippett, Aliir Aliir etc etc?


Should we compare that to Adelaide over the same period? Do they need an Academy to counteract the go home factor?
Click to expand...
Yes, please compare it
 
JyeDye said:
Sorry, I interpreted that as Melbourne would accept that trade offer because Sydney gave up Craig Bird. I didn't understand why Melbourne would care at all about that.

Regardless, like many others here my gripe with the academies is more so the AFL's points system. I completely disagree with the notion that those picks are worthy of that selection and find it amusing when Swans fans act like they are. You didn't give up a lot, stop acting like you did, Craig Bird was not even getting games for your side.

I think that possibly the AFL should introduce similar restriction to NGA's where you cannot match on first round selections. I still see the sentiment of getting priority in a player you helped develop, but I think a first round pick shouldn't be compromised by the bidding process.
Click to expand...

Shouldn't your issue be with the Bombers giving us a second round pick for Bird then if he was such a nothing player?
 
BloodySwan said:
It's very clear how many VFL fans view the competition and the "Interstate teams".

Interstate teams are academies for Melb based clubs. Any advantage a Vic club gets is heritage and anything else is unfair.

As soon as the Swans win a game - it's only through the AFL stacking the cards rather than anything else.

Rinse and repeat
Click to expand...

You can draw from the same heritage.
 
JyeDye said:
If a club wants to accept picks 33, 36, 37 and 43 for their high end draft pick then go ahead. Yet to see one do it though.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's not what I said.

Should clubs be allowed to trade for high picks?
Doesn't that rob teams at the bottom?
Doesn't it also allow teams at the top of the ladder to access the top end of the draft despite finishing at the top end of the ladder?

Or is there some mental gymnastics that we can employ to make sense of it all?
 

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Opinion Sydney Swans Academy and Rebuild

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