Rumour Tales from the Henley Beach Cafe 2: Crows 2021 Rumours

[hey shorty]

Name calling. That's cute.

If we were truly in a rebuild we would be playing Worrell, McAsey, Cook, Gollant, Fogarty for more than two weeks in a row, Pedlar and Himmelburg ahead of Frampton LONG before now.

Funny, we've pretty consistently played the youngest team of the round

To me that says rebuild.

Cook was never about this year, he was always a project and Gollant got hurt.

 

[jackster83]

We’re in a rebuild you moron.

Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Do you get off on abusing people?

 

[Sanders]

We’re in a rebuild you moron.

This guy!

 

[1970crow]

Mmm a bit touchy there! Must of hit a raw nerve - so someone who doesn’t like taking a bit of critical diatribe certainly likes to dish out - grow up

Having started by accusing someone of being rucci or a port troll, you think it's me that had a nerve touched? I just responded in the same pathetic like for like way as your type descends to when they get all upset about the nasty people who don't always speak glowingly about the club. I love you dimwits that can't put forward cogent reasoning, so instead throw out the, 'i doubt you're even a real supporter' or question membership status. If you don't want me to return serve, don't hit the ball in my direction.

Now, back to your lap rug, knitting and apricot slice Nanna. And don't forget to post on FB how great it is that Dave is back this week, because we sure missed him last week.

 

[1970crow]

Name calling. That's cute.

If we were truly in a rebuild we would be playing Worrell, McAsey, Cook, Gollant, Fogarty for more than two weeks in a row, Pedlar and Himmelburg ahead of Frampton LONG before now.

It's hilarious. Some dullard posts thst I'm a rucci alias and I respond in kind and then tells me to grow up. They're so sensitive. I thought it was a bit of fun, but defending the club regardless of performance is very important to these delicate souls.

 

[1970crow]

Funny, we've pretty consistently played the youngest team of the round

To me that says rebuild.

Cook was never about this year, he was always a project and Gollant got hurt.

And yet we've consistently played the oldest available side. Our list is in a rebuild phase, our selectors have at least one foot outside.

 

[UcantCme]

And yet we've consistently played the oldest available side. Our list is in a rebuild phase, our selectors have at least one foot outside.

Im not sure about this

What Nicjs and co has tried to do is put some experience around the kids on game day, in theory this is the right approach

What we don't want is a GC version of a rebuild, bunch of kids getting flogged week in, week out.

Our challenge has been with the likes of Crouch, Talia and Milera out, our experience is not that good with that said I would still not have played DMac for the amount of games this year

For me a rebuild can't be just play kids only, you need to put some experience out on the field around them, but the experience players need to perform

DMac, and Lynch when injured are calls which i haven't supported all year, apart from that we have played kids when they are ready and doubled our wins

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[Bearded Clam]

And yet we've consistently played the oldest available side. Our list is in a rebuild phase, our selectors have at least one foot outside.

Yep..
Some sort of rebuild this one is!...

given (wasted) another 12 or so games to David.. one of the biggest spuds to play nearly 250 games in the history of the AFL.. and, with no sanfl, instead of giving the sub spot to a youngster we give it to David... just ****n brilliant!.

we prefer to pick a clearly injured keays, who’s hands are so ****ed he cant even lay a tackle over another one of our youngsters and then give him a heap of time at the CBs when its pretty clear that, whilst he tries hard, he is a complete hack and leave the promising Berry to rot in the forward line.

we arent, from what the club itself is saying, gonna offer Tom Lynch a contract next year but for some reason that god only knows have decided to continue giving him games over our younger players. It cant be to increase trade value because he’s an UFA and at his age even if by some miracle he got a big offer somewhere else it wouldnt mean a decent compo pick in return.. so essentially, more games wasted on a player that isnt part of the future.

Sloane.. another one playing with an injury. Whos form this year has been utter dogshit at times and decent at others. He shouldve been told to go have his finger fixed and be back ready to go at the start of the PS. Now hes gonna plod his way till the end of the season and have an interupted preseason.. great idea dickhead!

we clearly have a massive deficiency in our small forward stocks.. after delisting our best small forward for being a young lad.. so instead of picking up a small forward in the MSD and giving them a six month contract to see if they go alright we decide to get yet another half back flanker.. hmmm..

we dump Godden because its clear he’s ****in rubbish at coaching... then re-employ him as our SANFL coach to coach our youth!!!... hahahaha..

I’d go on but I’ve got work to do.

Sorry if some of us here can see the current “rebuild” strategy has more holes in it than swiss ****in cheese..

 

[Mego Red]

Bold of you to assume we’ll be getting any of those guys, let alone all of them

Operative word was chasing.

 

[Mego Red]

Name calling. That's cute.

If we were truly in a rebuild we would be playing Worrell, McAsey, Cook, Gollant, Fogarty for more than two weeks in a row, Pedlar and Himmelburg ahead of Frampton LONG before now.

Rubbish.

Rebuilds are about developing players.

Just throwing kids out there to be absolutely humiliated just turns you into a basket case club and ruins their career.

We need a three year horizon for development. Give them progressively more responsibility while their body builds. As long as their playing against grown men in a team environment, they're developing. It doesn't have to all be about playing seniors.

 

[Mego Red]

And yet we've consistently played the oldest available side. Our list is in a rebuild phase, our selectors have at least one foot outside.

I think it speak volumes that, when faced with us consistently playing the youngest side in the AFL, you want to spin it to being "the oldest available side".

I think you just want to find the most negative perspective possible.

Shit, even the word "available" should tell you something - the club has made a commitment to rebuilding by cutting so many older players, our oldest possible side is STILL incredibly young.

 

[1970crow]

Im not sure about this

What Nicjs and co has tried to do is put some experience around the kids on game day, in theory this is the right approach

What we don't want is a GC version of a rebuild, bunch of kids getting flogged week in, week out.

Our challenge has been with the likes of Crouch, Talia and Milera out, our experience is not that good with that said I would still not have played DMac for the amount of games this year

For me a rebuild can't be just play kids only, you need to put some experience out on the field around them, but the experience players need to perform

DMac, and Lynch when injured are calls which i haven't supported all year, apart from that we have played kids when they are ready and doubled our wins

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Playing injured senior players and Mackay is a sure sign of focussing on the immediate ahead of future benefit. as is playing Dmac as sub when there's no SANFL games on. Sloane, Keays, Brown and ROB have been carried injured through poor form. A strong development philosophy would get those guys right over 2-3 weeks and take the opportunity to give others a go. But I did say one foot, it hasn't been a total disregard of the future. They are very focussed on avoiding the spoon and finishing as high as possible. But we eventually dropped Mackay and have forced returning seniors to tune up in the SANFL. So it could be worse.

 

[fortunatecrow]

Rubbish.

Rebuilds are about developing players.

Just throwing kids out there to be absolutely humiliated just turns you into a basket case club and ruins their career.

We need a three year horizon for development. Give them progressively more responsibility while their body builds. As long as their playing against grown men in a team environment, they're developing. It doesn't have to all be about playing seniors.

Yep. "Getting games into kids" over-simplifies things. It needs to be the right kids at the right time. The famous Phil Walsh quote was in reference to his group of players at a particular point in time, not laying down a blanket rule to be applied to the Crows forever more.

 

[1970crow]

I think it speak volumes that, when faced with us consistently playing the youngest side in the AFL, you want to spin it to being "the oldest available side".

I think you just want to find the most negative perspective possible.

sh*t, even the word "available" should tell you something - the club has made a commitment to rebuilding by cutting so many older players, our oldest possible side is STILL incredibly young.

it's not spin, it's fact. We continually play our oldest available side and have used among the least number of players, which is normally not a sign of a development mindset. We've played Mackay for yet another dozen bog average games. We've continued running the same 3 players covering 80% of available midfield minutes despite 2 of them carrying injuries that have cruelled their output. We selected Mackay as sub in a round where none of our developing players are playing SANFL. All discussions in here centre on decisione at the margins. The only genuinely marginal decision we've got right at selection in terms of future ahead of present is dropping Mackay last week. And even in a certain loss, they couldn't even get that completely right.

There is a difference between coaches choosing to play the youngest group and having no choice but to play the youngest group. The actual choices they've made tell the real story, using the games played average as the only indicator is lazy and misleading.

 

[Cap]

Funny, we've pretty consistently played the youngest team of the round

To me that says rebuild.

Cook was never about this year, he was always a project and Gollant got hurt.

Ah, but we've set a new measure remember.

It can't be the oldest team we can select, it has to be the players in the positions we think meet the criteria of a rebuild.

That way we can say there has been no real improvement!

 

[FR0GGY]

Funny, we've pretty consistently played the youngest team of the round

To me that says rebuild.

Cook was never about this year, he was always a project and Gollant got hurt.

Isn’t that because we have the youngest squad?
What other choice do we have?
How could we field an older team each week?
I reckon the center bounce attendances is a big indicator of what we are trying to achieve.
Or do we just not have any faith in our younger players, so just park them up forward?

 

[1970crow]

Isn’t that because we have the youngest squad?
What other choice do we have?
How could we field an older team each week?
I reckon the center bounce attendances is a big indicator of what we are trying to achieve.
Or do we just not have any faith in our younger players, so just park them up forward?

CBAs is a very strong indicator of coaching mindset. It tells a story even before you take into account that 2 of the 3 primaries have been playing through injuries that severely curbed their performance. As I've posted, ignoring the decisions being made at a micro level and relying solely on the age average is lazy and flawed. But the people doing that have a history of ignoring factors contrary to what they want to believe. It's why the continued support for the selectors playing Mackay changes with our circumstances. "We're contending, need to pick the best team", "no we're not contending, but the last player picked isn't the difference between winning and losing", "we're bottom, but we're already playing nearly the youngest team each week, do you want to be Carlton ".

 

[HiVisBis]

Having started by accusing someone of being rucci or a port troll, you think it's me that had a nerve touched? I just responded in the same pathetic like for like way as your type descends to when they get all upset about the nasty people who don't always speak glowingly about the club. I love you dimwits that can't put forward cogent reasoning, so instead throw out the, 'i doubt you're even a real supporter' or question membership status. If you don't want me to return serve, don't hit the ball in my direction.

Now, back to your lap rug, knitting and apricot slice Nanna. And don't forget to post on FB how great it is that Dave is back this week, because we sure missed him last week.

You really have a short ‘fuse’ one screen in the site one hand on BigFooty typing typing typing. Shooting off prematurely again. But thanks imitation is the greatest form of flattery so thankyou for your personal narcissistic abuse.
You have no idea how a footy club operates no idea, you are just some mug who posts endless negative sh%t. And for me to question your attitude is legitimate and has no relevance to my understanding and support of the club. So lay off the Pear narratives of apricot slices - that is pathetic. I’m as pizzed off at the AFC as most thinking supporters. And to see changes and development is what I’m after - the jury is out and hopefully Mackay as well - but your reference to DMac is weird. For the record I’m a 17 yr member until last year- gave it away for a while but they’ve come back with a 3 game membership.
I’ve written to Fagan in the past got crap back but this is a new era - let’s see what happens
So go your hardest at the punter that pushes back and the players that are busting a gut that’s your right - but here’s some words of wisdum:
“Stopping the abuse of people doesn’t just happen. It takes a positive approach every day. Hopefully today is the day you start to move forward”

 

[Thetrader15]

Funny, we've pretty consistently played the youngest team of the round

To me that says rebuild.

Cook was never about this year, he was always a project and Gollant got hurt.

I think the point is, how many of our 25+ year old players have been overlooked for a younger player when it was close to a 50:50?

Sloane, MacKay (ok, dropped for 1 game), Lynch all had times this year they should have been dropped based on performance/injury but were pushed through.

Yes, get experience around the kids, we don't want GC situation, but I think there's enough experience out there to be forcing the issue with some of the <23yo players.

Even giving them more chance in certain positions. Sloane Keays and Laird spend attended almost every CBA on the weekend.

I would have:
80% Schoenberg switch with McHenry 20%
70% Laird -> 30% Sloane
50% Berry -> 50% Keays

You've always got an experienced player or 2 in there, but getting time for the next gen too.

 

[Murray2503]

CBAs is a very strong indicator of coaching mindset. It tells a story even before you take into account that 2 of the 3 primaries have been playing through injuries that severely curbed their performance. As I've posted, ignoring the decisions being made at a micro level and relying solely on the age average is lazy and flawed. But the people doing that have a history of ignoring factors contrary to what they want to believe. It's why the continued support for the selectors playing Mackay changes with our circumstances. "We're contending, need to pick the best team", "no we're not contending, but the last player picked isn't the difference between winning and losing", "we're bottom, but we're already playing nearly the youngest team each week, do you want to be Carlton ".

I totally agree that Nick's should be playing the likes of Cook, Worrell, Thilthorpe(if fit), Pedlar(if fit). The mistake we made is that they should have been rotating youth through youth. What they have done is the opposite. They have decided preseason which younger players are getting games and which aren't regardless of their form in the SANFL. Then they have run the chosen ones into the ground until their form is awful and then replaced them with an aging spud. What they should have done is give a Berry a couple of weeks off and rotate a Pedlar, rest McHenry for 2 or 3 and give Cook a run etc. The other part is often they have hidden the younger players in a position which they are not accustomed too and unable to use their full strengths. They haven't been entrusted with responsibility and allowed to shine. I get the feeling that they don't want them to shine too much as then there plans need to be updated.

I don't know who the hell is picking our team but it smells of Riccuito having his incompetent hands all over it. My issue is that there is no focus by the organisation on how our list was allowed to get to this state by the same people who are still there. A list this historically bad doesn't happen by accident. Until we appoint competent list management and recruiting team there won't be a great deal of improvement regardless of which team we pick. The fact there has been no focus on Ogilvie, Reid, Riccuito in the media is concerning. This triumvirate of incompetents has run the club into the ground and the only person in the media that mentions this fact is Rucci who no one listens too. They would have been sacked on the spot at any other club years ago.

Add in then having to hear Riccuito at all our home games laughing like a twit at how bad we are and talking up all the good players at other clubs who aren't on our list. It's bizarre. Having someone with such influence at the club that all his mates in the media don't question due to their friendship and professional relationship should never happen again. Likely the club enjoys this lack of scrutiny that comes because of it.

 

[DJ75]

I think the point is, how many of our 25+ year old players have not been overlooked for a younger player when it was close to a 50:50?

Sloane, MacKay (ok, dropped for 1 game), Lynch all had times this year they should have been dropped based on performance/injury but were pushed through.

Yes, get experience around the kids, we don't want GC situation, but I think there's enough experience out there to be forcing the issue with some of the <23yo players.

Even giving them more chance in certain positions. Sloane Keays and Laird spend attended almost every CBA on the weekend.

I would have:
80% Schoenberg switch with McHenry 20%
70% Laird -> 30% Sloane
50% Berry -> 50% Keays

You've always got an experienced player or 2 in there, but getting time for the next gen too.

View attachment 1194780

I suspect that if Talia, Lynch, Milera and Crouch were available all year, they would have played all year.

It means, we would have played Brown, Smith, Talia, Milera, Crouch, Laird, Sloane, Walker, Lynch, and yes, probably Mackay for every single game if we could have.
We would have limited the exposure of some of our kids and probably finished around 10th.

I just don't believe that we could have resisted playing these guys every week. And that tells you that we aren't actually embracing the rebuild and planning for the future at all.

 

[Scorpus]

I suspect that if Talia, Lynch, Milera and Crouch were available all year, they would have played all year.

It means, we would have played Brown, Smith, Talia, Milera, Crouch, Laird, Sloane, Walker, Lynch, and yes, probably Mackay for every single game if we could have.
We would have limited the exposure of some of our kids and probably finished around 10th.

I just don't believe that we could have resisted playing these guys every week. And that tells you that we aren't actually embracing the rebuild and planning for the future at all.

We don't rebuild during the season. It doesn't happen. We go into every week with our best possible team (which in our minds is the most experienced) and seek to win at all costs. Senior players are always selected, or injured, and those injuries provide openings to young players. All you have to do to see this is look at how many SANFL games our players with more than 50 games of experience have played (it's close to zero).

However I do think we are rebuilding and planning for the future. It just happens in the off season. It's during the trade period we move players on, and it's during pre-season players have a chance to establish themselves and push higher into the coveted pecking order.

It's why guys like Worrell, no matter how well he plays in the SANFL, is unlikely to get much game time - he didn't establish himself in the pre-season. In contrast, it takes us way too long to drop even some young guys like Rowe or McAdam or Frampton. They did establish themselves, so we back them in until their form is so horrible it's sending them backwards. Senior players get the double: established in the pre-season and high in the pecking order. They are therefore undroppable.

I think it also explains why we constantly play injured players. We've already decided these guys are playing before round 1. It doesn't matter how shitty their form is and how impacted it is by their injuries during the season. We made the call ages ago and it would take a crippling injury to see them ruled out.

Young players have to be exceptional to make the team mid way through the season and remain in the side. And even then this is often injury assisted

For us to really accelerate our rebuild we need to change this mentality and look to rebuild during the season. Reward players in good form in the twos and elevate them to the AFL team for more than just a token game. Have a hair trigger for dropping out of form senior players. Don't play injured players.

 

[Gtowncrow]

Playing injured senior players and Mackay is a sure sign of focussing on the immediate ahead of future benefit. as is playing Dmac as sub when there's no SANFL games on. Sloane, Keays, Brown and ROB have been carried injured through poor form. A strong development philosophy would get those guys right over 2-3 weeks and take the opportunity to give others a go. But I did say one foot, it hasn't been a total disregard of the future. They are very focussed on avoiding the spoon and finishing as high as possible. But we eventually dropped Mackay and have forced returning seniors to tune up in the SANFL. So it could be worse.

Isn't playing injured players and Dmac is clearly a sign of tanking?

 

[jackster83]

Isn't playing injured players and Dmac is clearly a sign of tanking?

Have we been tanking for the last 12 years?

 

[WeeBlake]

The dodo is the bogeyman stuff is so boring and untrue

Spoke to a friend who is a Dons superfan and Dodo is hated by plenty of them, too