Team Mgmt. Talk about the makeup of our list - midfield balance, height profile, endurance runners

[Howard Moon]

I haven't seen enough of either Kav or O'Brien (?)... Kav has been able to dispose of the ball well under pressure but hasn't had enough AFL time to lift his game. One particular handball always sticks in my mind with Kav, I don't recall who it was against, near the boundary, congested and he picked out Watson I think it was with a 5-10m handball on the inside that opened up the play. Exciting because of the promise but hasn't had consistent game time to build on it. Maybe Kav's decision making. He doesn't seem that quick.

Melksham is frustrating. At times he tags well, other times he loses his man. A lot of posters here pick him out because he stops running, then other times he'll be found running hard in the third or fourth to be that link player or get to the goal square. I don't know if he really has a weapon as such because he seems to go missing too much. He's a hardnut when he needs to be though, and I like that. I note that hardnut isn't one of your star points though.

Do you think they have one big weapon HM?

hmm i guess this throws up flaws in my half baked 5 star theory.

maybe the points compliment each other, maybe your elite disposal dissapears if your endurance is no good after HT, and decision making too. How about those grinders who just kill you on the inside all day long, may not have a super skill but they are effective all the same.

I like Melky but i do struggle to find his super strength, he gets caught ball watching as a tagger, he hasnt got the tank to be a full time mid and he seems to choose the times when he wants to gut run (usually when theres a goal to be had) He does have good skills but his decision making lets them down often. Hes not quick either. Im not sure what the future holds but i think he does have something to give, if he can either build the tank or iron out the decision making his good disposal can come to the fore. But in this 5 star system he fails.

i seem to recall we recruited Kav with the promise of elite disposal? He isnt quick, not a huge body just yet so i guess its hard to come into the 1s and show those wares when you are constantly under pressure. (physical and pace) However Merrett and Heppell were able to show them right away, may just give us an insight as to where he stands in the pecking order?

I also recall NOB was recruited with super leadership, is that a strength?

 

[rines]

EFC recruiters give an indication of the value they place on speed/endurance.....rookie and 400m/800m champion Johnny Raynor's contract not extended.

Really? They aren't giving him another year? That is surprising.. I thought he showed enough to suggest you would persist with him..

 

[BrunoV]

EFC recruiters give an indication of the value they place on speed/endurance.....rookie and 400m/800m champion Johnny Raynor's contract not extended.

Surprising. Not sure what it's supposed to say about the value of running though.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

When is the club going to announce it list changes?

 

[Yoda_]

Im not terribly fussed with who brings what to our team (to a degree) but I am worried about the timing of retirements come the end of 2016/17.

We may see a raft of guys retiring or at the end of there tenures and no truly great replacements for them.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Im not terribly fussed with who brings what to our team (to a degree) but I am worried about the timing of retirements come the end of 2016/17.

We may see a raft of guys retiring or at the end of there tenures and no truly great replacements for them.

That's why it's super important for the club nail the next 3 drafts.

 

[Yoda_]

That's why it's super important for the club nail the next 3 drafts.

Add to that the loss of top end draft picks (despite playing catch up by snagging Zach and an extra 'first' round draft pick this year.

Need to hope we can grab "that" draft where we get 3 - 4 100+ AFL gamers from. Every truly great side does. We seem to be able to nab 1 - 2 per draft. Just need that one super draft for us.

(edit: including rookies as 100+ gamers)

 

[Ess_don]

When is the club going to announce it list changes?

Came here to ask the exact same question.. anyone know the deadline to announce delistings?
I'd guess just before draft day??

Im assuming the club is being considerate and waiting for the players to come back from their holidays so they can break the news in person, not ruin their holidays and they dont have to find out through twitter or whatever.

EDIT: and of course as soon as I post this the club announces it literally minutes later to make me look silly!

http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2014-10-22/2014-list-changes

"Kyle Hardingham, Sean Gregory and Johnny Rayner have been advised their contracts will not be renewed for the 2015 season.

Leroy Jetta has also been delisted after indicating his desire to continue his AFL career elsewhere."

 

[rines]

Still leaves of couple to go.. if we are to make enough room on the list..

Also starting to wonder if Winderlich is going to stay.. no news for a while and list spots seem pretty tight..

 

[yaco55]

It's a worry when our two category B rookies in Jenkins and Rayner have lasted one year.

 

[eth-dog]

It's a worry when our two category B rookies in Jenkins and Rayner have lasted one year.

Jenkins was a normal rookie

 

[Doss]

It's a worry when our two category B rookies in Jenkins and Rayner have lasted one year.

I reckon you're thinking of James Webster from 2011.

 

[yaco55]

I reckon you're thinking of James Webster from 2011.

Webster was a scholarship player - Thought that Jenkins was a category B rookie because he hadn't played footy for three years.

 

[Yoda_]

Webster was a scholarship player - Thought that Jenkins was a category B rookie because he hadn't played footy for three years.

Lake Boga product?

 

[Runk]

Didn't seem to be a thread dedicated to actually discussing the state of our list, so here it is.

So whilst we still have a couple of small changes to make (delistings/draftees), generally speaking I thought now would be a good time to actually start having a look at the make up of our list, age profile, where we have strengths/deficiencies etc etc.

So I came up with the following list of our players:

Name Games Age DOB Height Position Status List Rank
Heppell, Dyson 84 22 14/05/1992 189 Midfielder 1-Lock 1
Watson, Jobe 188 30 8/02/1985 191 Midfielder 1-Lock 2
Hooker, Cale 111 26 13/10/1988 197 Key Defender 1-Lock 3
Goddard, Brendon 247 29 20/05/1985 189 Midfielder 1-Lock 4
Hibberd, Michael 63 25 3/01/1990 187 Half-Back 1-Lock 5
Hurley, Michael 100 24 1/06/1990 195 Key Defender 1-Lock 6
Carlisle, Jake 68 23 1/10/1991 200 Key Forward 1-Lock 7
Bellchambers, Tom 69 25 9/07/1989 202 Ruck 1-Lock 8
Zaharakis, David 110 25 21/02/1990 185 Midfielder 1-Lock 9
Winderlich, Jason 128 30 10/10/1984 188 Small Forward 1-Lock 10
Fletcher, Dustin 393 39 7/05/1975 198 Key Defender 1-Lock 11
Chapman, Paul 271 33 5/11/1981 179 Small Forward 1-Lock 12
Daniher, Joe 26 21 4/03/1994 201 Key Forward 1-Lock 13
Cooney, Adam 219 29 30/09/1985 185 Midfielder 1-Lock 14
Merrett, Zachary 20 19 3/10/1995 180 Small Forward 1-Lock 15
Myers, David 83 25 30/06/1989 191 Midfielder 2-Senior 16
Baguley, Mark 50 27 21/05/1987 181 Half-Back 2-Senior 17
Dempsey, Courtenay 106 27 28/08/1987 187 Half-Back 2-Senior 18
Hocking, Heath 119 27 27/12/1987 186 Midfielder 2-Senior 19
Colyer, Travis 46 23 24/08/1991 175 Midfielder 2-Senior 20
Giles, Jonathan 51 27 8/01/1988 200 Ruck 2-Senior 21
Howlett, Ben 97 26 21/10/1988 180 Midfielder 2-Senior 22
Stanton, Brent 226 28 1/05/1986 185 Midfielder 2-Senior 23
Ambrose, Patrick (R) 16 23 1/09/1991 191 Key Forward 2-Senior 24
Gleeson, Martin 9 20 25/08/1994 186 Midfielder 2-Senior 25
Merrett, Jackson 28 22 27/02/1993 187 Small Forward 2-Senior 26
Melksham, Jake 96 23 29/08/1991 186 Midfielder 3-Fringe 27
Dalgleish, Lauchlan 3 21 22/06/1993 185 Midfielder 3-Fringe 28
Gwilt, James 126 28 11/08/1986 188 Key Defender 3-Fringe 29
Browne, Alex 8 22 9/08/1992 188 Midfielder 3-Fringe 30
Ashby, Jason 5 20 16/05/1994 187 Half-Back 3-Fringe 31
Fantasia, Orazio 3 19 14/09/1995 178 Small Forward 3-Fringe 32
Pears, Tayte 68 25 24/03/1990 192 Key Defender 3-Fringe 33
Aylett, Kurt 3 23 2/04/1992 188 Midfielder 3-Fringe 34
Steinberg, Ariel (R) 3 22 26/08/1992 191 Key Defender 3-Fringe 35
Kommer, Nicholas 19 24 28/09/1990 184 Small Forward 3-Fringe 36
Kavanagh, Elliott 7 21 19/05/1993 187 Midfielder 3-Fringe 37
Edwards, Shaun 12 21 13/12/1993 189 Midfielder 3-Fringe 38
Hams, Will 2 20 14/07/1994 180 Half-Back 3-Fringe 39
Dell'Olio, Corey (R) 16 25 8/12/1989 177 Small Forward 4-Outer 40
O'Brien, Nicholas 5 21 26/06/1993 188 Midfielder 4-Outer 41
Hardingham, Kyle 65 26 1/09/1988 186 Half-Back 4-Outer 42
Van Unen, Dylan 1 24 22/06/1990 189 Midfielder 4-Outer 43
Rayner, Johnny (R) 0 24 25/03/1991 184 Midfielder 4-Outer 44
Thurlow, Fraser (R) 0 22 6/01/1993 200 Ruck 4-Outer 45
Gregory, Sean 0 21 20/01/1994 196 Key Defender 4-Outer 46
​

Now before anyone goes and loses their shit, remember this is HIGHLY subjective, and really only my opinion. More than happy for you to disagree with me (thats why we're here) but no need to go full ****** - you never go full ******.

So some explanation;

Position - I kept it very simple and allocated a position in one of six areas; Key forward, key defender, midfielder, small forward, half-back and ruck. Also, when I had a choice as to where to put them, I ultimately decided to list them where I thought they would likely spend the bulk of their career (were they to have a long and fruitful one).

Status - This is me trying to describe how I feel about a player in the side. A 'lock' is exactly that. If they are fit and not being rested or anything else, they play seniors. A 'senior' player is someone that I feel is not quite a lock in the side, but in reality is very likely to play seniors. Fringe players are those players where through injury or hole in the list, if they are playing seniors we have a weakness. Outer players are those I really don't think should be on the list.

List Rank - This was just me quickly trying to rank our players from top to bottom, it doesn't really mean much.

So how do we look?

Well the first very pleasing thing is that we have 25 players that I would comfortably have running out on the field for us each week - meaning assuming a completely injury free list (a pipedream I know), players are very unlucky to miss a game. Moreover, those 25 players are made up of no fewer than 3 for each position; that is we have very good players all over the ground.

Our midfield bats very deep. This might surprise some that aren't paying attention, but if you haven't noticed the Bombers midfield has become one of the stronger in the league (not the strongest mind you). Considering that clubs want 8-10 players running through there during a game, the fact that we have a dozen players that are comfortably good players gives us a nice depth.

Believe it or not, what was considered a strength a couple years ago is now a possible weakness. We only have the six key position players that are of quality, and generally you'd want all six on the park. We lose one to injury or suspension and all of a sudden we are having to rejig the side (see Hurley/Carlisle switching, Goddard out of FF etc etc). We've all noticed this. The loss of Ryder hurts our ability to cover this shortfall. The recruitment of Gwilt helps give us some depth, but in reality we need to find another one or two KPPs either through recruitment of a established players or through the draft that can play at a high level here.

Age wise, I know there isn't a hard and fast rule but I'm of the belief that the following two guidelines should be worked towards:

1) No more than 4-6 30+ players on the list
2) Try and aim for anout half of your list at 23 and under.

We've done alright here, we have a nice long list of young players (a good lot of which look like they'll be quality players), and our lack of older players allowed us to comfortably hold a Chapman without compromising our list profile. You can question the quality of players, but in terms of a pure numbers game we have a nice spread of junior to senior players.

So pick 17 + 20?

Personally whilst I'm a believer in taking the best player available, if they difference in quality isn't significant I'd be looking to target a key forward with our first pick. If Tom Lamb is available we have to take him, but barring that I'd be looking Goddard or Marchbank. Hell, both with 17 and 20 if we can manage it. Barring that, I know it would be pulling the trigger slightly early, but Nakia Cockatoo at 20 would suit us perfectly.

We come out with Goddard and Cockatoo - I'll be freakin stoked.

But if players come in......

Yup, some have got to go.

Ryder and Jetta are the only confirmed senior departures, and we've brought in Cooney, Gwilt and Giles - already one too many. We need to make three picks at the draft, one will be Ambrose will be one, meaning we have FOUR senior delistings to make (not including Ryder and Jetta). So who goes?

Hardingham is clearly gone. And I think Van Unen is likely toast as well. Gregory you would think would struggle to hold a senior spot. All three are uncontracted. Which means (assuming Winders re-signs) we have to delist a contracted player. We bat deepest in the middle - I reckon O'Brien may face the chop and be re-rookied.

Del and Thurlow are gone you would think from the rookie list. Steinberg I'd be inclined to keep. Re-draft O'Brien, bring in Long - and we're done....

So what do you think of our list?

I almost lost my shit but thank god you put that in there.

 

[eth-dog]

Webster was a scholarship player - Thought that Jenkins was a category B rookie because he hadn't played footy for three years.

Nope, he had a basketball background but played footy

 

[Smokin]

It's a worry when our two category B rookies in Jenkins and Rayner have lasted one year.

How come? A season is enough to realise potential.

Also, remember there could be options out there which are better than what we have. The fight for McKenna was apparently huge behind the scenes - we have done great ground work in Ireland and perhaps there is more to come?

We definitely need a better ruck prospect on the rookie list - Jenkins hasn't got it between the ears apparently.

 

[yaco55]

How come? A season is enough to realise potential.

Also, remember there could be options out there which are better than what we have. The fight for McKenna was apparently huge behind the scenes - we have done great ground work in Ireland and perhaps there is more to come?

We definitely need a better ruck prospect on the rookie list - Jenkins hasn't got it between the ears apparently.

Category B Rookies are a free hit - You may as well give them every opportunity.

 

[Towno78]

How come? A season is enough to realise potential.

Also, remember there could be options out there which are better than what we have. The fight for McKenna was apparently huge behind the scenes - we have done great ground work in Ireland and perhaps there is more to come?

We definitely need a better ruck prospect on the rookie list - Jenkins hasn't got it between the ears apparently.

You can only have 1 Irish on cat B

 

[eth-dog]

You can only have 1 Irish on cat B

False. Carlton had Ciaran Sheehan and Ciaran Byrne on Cat B this year, and I'm pretty sure Hanley and Colm Begley overlapped at Brisbane as Cat B's

 

[Ambrosia]

False. Carlton had Ciaran Sheehan and Ciaran Byrne on Cat B this year, and I'm pretty sure Hanley and Colm Begley overlapped at Brisbane as Cat B's

But only one was a Cat B Rookie.

IRISH ROOKIE PRE-SELECTION

Irish players can be signed directly to a club’s Rookie List under the International Player Rule and do not have to go through the draft. Previously, Irish players could not be listed as Category B rookies but took a spot on the main Rookie List.

Clubs can now list one Irish player as a Category B rookie but for each additional Irish player rookie listed, that player will be deemed to be a Category A rookie and the club will forfeit its last selection in the Rookie Draft for each additional player listed.
http://www.afl.com.au/afl-hq/the-afl-explained/rookie-players

 

[eth-dog]

But only one was a Cat B Rookie.

Ah, that's a bit stupid.

 

[yaco55]

Ah, that's a bit stupid.

It's done this way to pacify the Irish Gaelic Association.

 

[Jade]

Alright. So, I decided to have a look at our list from a basic analytical perspective (as I do in my profession), to see if it revealed any glaring holes.

And boy did it; we have a lot of work to do this off season to get it looking like a team capable of challenging for a top four berth.

Here's what I did:

I put together what is known as a grid profile. It is a basic 3x3 grid, with an ABC axis on both sides. The y-axis represents the class (or talent) of a player, and the x-axis the age.

Disclaimer, both of these are HIGHLY subjective, your opinion may be different that mine; but that's what I did. The end result is you get something like this:



Green is good, yellow ok, red BAD!!

The idea of grid profiling when looking at change management is fairly straight forward. You want 60% of whatever you are looking at in green, 30% in ok and only 10% in bad.

We have 15 players, a third of our list that we genuinely don't need. We need to change that.

For your perusal, the total profile is saved in a PDF.

I'll throw together some further posts to explain.

 

[Jade]

For the sake of clarity (and inevitable debate), I've attached the list and how I rated them.

Please note the highlights, this is where I've taken some personal liberties and re-assigned a players position as I see fit (ie. where I believe we should be looking to play them).