News The 2010 Trade discussion thread

[Bulldog Joe]

[/list]The picks we gave away for McDougall and 34 were 29(Eric McKenzie - West Coast) and 59(Jarryd Allen - St Kilda). We used our pick 34 for Aker.

The picks we gave away for Ben Hudson and 43 were 30(Jarrhan Jacky - Adelaide)and 38 Myke Cook(Adelaide). We used our pick 43 for Easton Wood.

I think we are well ahead in both deals. Especially the 2007 one. A premier ruckman in Ben Hudson and a pick used on Easton Wood, for two picks used on Jarrhan Jacky and Myke Cook.

The trades are actually quite complex

As an example in 2007

We gave up picks 22 (Scott Selwood) and 54 (traded to Essendon) to West Coast for Picks 30 , 35 (Sam Reid) and 62

We then gave up pick 62 for Tim Callan and Pick 66

We gave up pick 30 and 38 for Hudson

Net result we traded out
pick 22 - Scott Selwood
pick 54 - Cale Hooker

we got
Ben Hudson
Sam Reid
Tim Callan

I think we did ok.

 

[maddog37]

Trading is valuable if done well. Our list does look thin after our 28 year olds are gone in the next age group. I would be happy to get a couple of good players in the 24 ish bracket to help transition our youth but not at too high a cost.

Sydney have done that well by identifying what they need and going after it.

 

[Mutt]

I don't mind trading for a mature player as long as we are highly targetted and discriminating. We should only trade for an older player if there is a glaring need that cannot reliably be meet another way (e.g. Hudson the proven ready-made hard-bodied ruckman; Hall the proven ready-made key position forward).

I don't like the idea of trading picks for Houli, Drummond and the likes just because they are ok players. I'm with TBFB on this and like his junk shop/bargain analogy, because it oh-so-often is what happens with trading.

If we target a mature player in trading we need to look for a proven, ready made small crumbing goal-kicker and a proven pacy mid-fielder who can kick the ball well. We will have to pay a high price for them if they are on the market.

I still like to develop our own talent through the draft as the principal means of building the team and hate the Michael Voss approach.

 

[Da Zuumas]

I don't mind trading for a mature player as long as we are highly targetted and discriminating. We should only trade for an older player if there is a glaring need that cannot reliably be meet another way (e.g. Hudson the proven ready-made hard-bodied ruckman; Hall the proven ready-made key position forward).

I don't like the idea of trading picks for Houli, Drummond and the likes just because they are ok players. I'm with TBFB on this and like his junk shop/bargain analogy, because it oh-so-often is what happens with trading.

If we target a mature player in trading we need to look for a proven, ready made small crumbing goal-kicker and a proven pacy mid-fielder who can kick the ball well. We will have to pay a high price for them if they are on the market.

I still like to develop our own talent through the draft as the principal means of building the team and hate the Michael Voss approach.

Agree that we should primarily look at developing our own, and if we are to go to the trade table, we really need some pace with a goalsneak and a half-back/midfielder (possibly to replace Harbrow).

I know the Recruiting people at the dogs picked up young Thorne as a goalsneak option from NT, and unfortunately he got injured, but why wouldn't they have been looking at say a Dennis-Lane from the WAFL who kicked over 50 last year (from memory I think he was a rookie pick up for Sydney or a late draft pick).

I'm not really sure of available goal sneaks at other clubs, but this type of player should be a priority either through a trade, or even a mature age player from the VFL, WAFL or SANFL.

 

[stefoid]

We've traded very well under rocket in terms of value given up for value received. Youve got to add what we have received for outgoing players in terms of picks as well -

Power, MacMahon, Birrs and Ray < Boumann, Ward, Hill, Jones. Note that the former lot except for Ray are no longer on an AFL list, while all four of our guys are. and I think we can all agree that a quick young talented CHF is going to do a lot more for our list than a midfielder with poor disposal under pressure (like we need more of those )

As for mid-late draft picks, most end up as busts. 2008 was a super-dooper draft - the talent runs 2 rounds deep and it is highly unusual in that regard.

Compare to the 2003 draft where we used our pick 6 and 20 on rawlings. its a barren wasteland with Cooney the only shining light.

 

[stefoid]

Apparently adelaide and Essendon prepared to offer Griffen $120k more then the dogs. About the $550K mark.

Surely with johnno, Aker, Hahn, Eagleton, Harbrow and a couple others going we will have some cash for him.

Regarding Houli. If we could pick him up for a pick we can get from harbrow then im all for it. Hell if we get two draft picks for Harbrow maybe send them to adelaide for knights.

Dont agree. First of all I am certain we will get only one first round for Harbrow, to be used after our first round pick in which ever draft we decide to take it, which this year or next year will be pick...25 or something? Remember, GC gets 7 picks before we get our first one, and ditto for GWS the following year.

Unless one or the other of these drafts is an 08 style super-deep bonanza, I reckon we keep our harbrow 1st round until it becomes good value in 2012 onwards... At least then it should be in the 13 to 18 range.

We are getting good value from the GC draft through our father and sons... we dont need to panic in that regard.

Can someone tell me, I think I remember we might be getting another F/S in the GWS draft as well?

 

[stefoid]

Agree that we should primarily look at developing our own, and if we are to go to the trade table, we really need some pace with a goalsneak and a half-back/midfielder (possibly to replace Harbrow).

I know the Recruiting people at the dogs picked up young Thorne as a goalsneak option from NT, and unfortunately he got injured, but why wouldn't they have been looking at say a Dennis-Lane from the WAFL who kicked over 50 last year (from memory I think he was a rookie pick up for Sydney or a late draft pick).

I'm not really sure of available goal sneaks at other clubs, but this type of player should be a priority either through a trade, or even a mature age player from the VFL, WAFL or SANFL.

Agree (sorry three posts in a row). We are a financially struggling club, we cant afford to bottom out any time in the near future. And doing so would be a waste of the talent we have at the club now - we want to be pushing for a premiership in each of the years that our 27+ aged players have left.

Our future needs are being met by our F/S selections so we should look to address team balance issues in the draft be drafting for needs with later picks and we should not be afraid to pick up mature-aged rookies from anywhere either.

Given that Dalrymples first two picks are montys, he should be busting his chops this year trying to identify hidden 'davies, barlows and garletts' for us to pick up with late picks and rookie picks.

 

[fronkalicious]

Reckon we'll get 2 first rounders for Harbrow (one after our selection and one at the end of the 1st round), but neither to be used this year.

We'll obviously use our first 2 picks on Wallis & Libba, leaving our first live pick at about 60. That'll mean we need to be trading players, not picks, if we want decent talent in return.

I really really like Knights. Id love to get him, and I reckon theres some merit behind a Wilbur for Knights swap. Leaves us a bit exposed if Hudson goes down, but youve got to give something up to get something back. Lets also not forget the serious trend towards only playing 1 ruckman, so having 3 AFL level ruckman is a luxury.

I like Drummond as well, but wouldnt be able to afford him and Knights.

Whoever suggested trading one of Harbrow's first round picks for Houli should never be allowed to post trade ideas on here again!

And the Dennis-Lane type player isnt what we need either. Hill & Stack play that way. We need a super fast, super hard tackling/chasing fwd pocket, not another floating, small, marking player.

 

[Igloo]

Unless one or the other of these drafts is an 08 style super-deep bonanza, I reckon we keep our harbrow 1st round until it becomes good value in 2012 onwards... At least then it should be in the 13 to 18 range.

We are getting good value from the GC draft through our father and sons... we dont need to panic in that regard.

Agree with that. No point using our first rounder for harbrow in this draft. We should definately wait to use it. It will have some value in a few years

 

[The Boy From Brasil]

Now TBFB, you can't have it both ways - if draft picks (on 18yos) are gold, we should use them for that. I'm not saying we never do a trade and never pick up rejects but they have to be special cases and outstanding value.

Yep, agree with all your points. Rarely do I like doing trades unless they are absolute guns or will be guns. I prefer using the draft mechanism and developing the young talent to build a possible premiership side from there. However I did like the Hall and Hudson trade because they were positions that we badly needed to fill in the short term, they were late picks and so we didn['t give much away,we had traded a player out anyway,and both Hall and Hudson were proven players so not much risk attached.

Re the Hudson deal - I overlooked the fact that we got pick 43 back from Adelaide. That probably makes Hudson closer to a 9/10 deal. because we effectively got him for one 2nd round pick (and a slight downgrading of a 3rd rounder).

However it's specious reasoning to say that Ben Hudson is better than whoever Adleaide got with picks 30 & 38. That's only their misguided folly if their picks turned out to be duds. It's who we might have been able to use the picks on. For instance all the following were still available after pick 30:
Scott Thompson
Easton Wood
Cale Hooker
Dennis Armfield
etc
Would we have been better off keeping pick 30 and 38 and going for Shane Mumford (an 8-10 year ruckman) and whoever you think is best out of say Wood, Armfield, Hooker, Thompson, etc? Obviously it implies we'd have been savvy enough to pick the right ones (clearly Adelaide weren't and nearly everyone missed Mumford!)

I know what you are saying. Because Adelaide went for a player with a certain pick, doesn't mean we would have. That makes sense.

I think the difference between a few years ago and now is the phase we are in. The last three years we were in full premiership mode and trying to fill our structural and positional gaps to bring home that elusive premiership. Whatever happens this year, IMO next year will be a different phase and our strategy will be more in line with getting games into our young talent(touch wood) and getting 50 games into them as quick as possible so we can challenge for a premiership in a year or so.

I can't see the point of trading this year for an older player or a player who will be only depth and not of future premiership standard. There is no point.It defeats the purpose of building for a premiership. That is why, unless something out of the ordinary presents itself or a player of great value, I would keep our draft picks and steer clear of trading.One of my pet hates is wasting draft picks on good ordinary players who will never play in a premiership team.

 

[Werewolf]

Does anyone think we should chase Ben McKinley? He was looking very promising (WCE leading goalkicker 2008), is from Victoria and out of contract. If Stack (or Hill) chooses to go home we could make a deal.

 

[dogzrule]

Does anyone think we should chase Ben McKinley? He was looking very promising (WCE leading goalkicker 2008), is from Victoria and out of contract. If Stack (or Hill) chooses to go home we could make a deal.

We dont need a mid to big forward besides he cant get a game with the wooden spooners

We need pace and run plus small forwards

 

[TimC]

Read on afl.com today something about Ryan Gamble possibily wanting to be traded from Geelong. Given our lack of forward options next year, what do you guys think ?

I still have memories of him tearing us apart in 2008.

 

[dogwatch]

Eade for draft pick 97, anybody?
No wait, we'll throw in the whole MC and a set of steak knives.

 

[W W Biscuit]

Read on afl.com today something about Ryan Gamble possibily wanting to be traded from Geelong. Given our lack of forward options next year, what do you guys think ?

I still have memories of him tearing us apart in 2008.

Ryan spays the ball around a bit. Not reliable in front of goals, so I would stay away.

 

[Easty]

I mentioned in another thread that Vespremi would be worth chasing as that small forward type. Problem is pick 60 isn't enough and I can't think of anyone Sydney would want in return.

 

[TedDougChris]

Eade for draft pick 97, anybody?
No wait, we'll throw in the whole MC and a set of steak knives.

Depends if people are selecting on current or previous performances.....

the value will differ markedly if on current form....

 

[boydsno1]

I mentioned in another thread that Vespremi would be worth chasing as that small forward type. Problem is pick 60 isn't enough and I can't think of anyone Sydney would want in return.

Addison is a sydney boy. Although im one of the rare people that like him.

 

[The Boy From Brasil]

I mentioned in another thread that Vespremi would be worth chasing as that small forward type. Problem is pick 60 isn't enough and I can't think of anyone Sydney would want in return.

Probably the Sydney posters can answer this more accurately, but why hasn't he played more games? Injury or form?

Like all the 6 players featured indepth in the Draft book that was published a few years ago, I was really keen for Vespremi to do well and am dissappointed that he hasn't prospered like the other draftees in the book, Rioli, Cotchin, etc.

 

[spidermanbatman]

not sure if this has been brought up or not but should we try and chase Aaron Edwards? massive foward with great leap and straight kick but has not reached his full potential at North..could we make a play for him?

 

[dogz]

My dud recycling selection would be Ryan Murphy
Apparently getting delisted at Freo.
Cons - 26 next year, lazy, may stop Panos developing at Williamstown, soft?
Pros - Cheap?, tallish, once well rated.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Read today that Justin Sherman is a chance to go from the Lions.

A good replacement for Harbrow perhaps?

 

[Werewolf]

Read today that Justin Sherman is a chance to go from the Lions.

Source?

 

[100action]

Read today that Justin Sherman is a chance to go from the Lions.

A good replacement for Harbrow perhaps?

the amount of class the lions has lost in the past year and have the potential to lose is unbelievable.

Rischitelli-gone
Bradshaw-gone
Henderson- gone
pick 12- gone
Fevola- could be sacked
Drummond- wants to leave, demanding 500k+ contract
Brennan- may leave, looking for a huge contract
Sherman- Wants to leave

 

[bleeding red and white]

Probably the Sydney posters can answer this more accurately, but why hasn't he played more games? Injury or form?

Like all the 6 players featured indepth in the Draft book that was published a few years ago, I was really keen for Vespremi to do well and am dissappointed that he hasn't prospered like the other draftees in the book, Rioli, Cotchin, etc.

Vespremi just hasn't taken that 'next' step this season. Seems to be out of favour with the club in regards to attitude and work ethic. Played only one game this season against Port as a late inclusion. I have a feeling the club will look to offload him.

I'm VERY interested in Everitt. Straight swap? Done!