List Mgmt. The 2024 Draft (Nov 20/21)

[Keys]

Quick links

• Player contract status
• Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)
• Provisional 2025 Draft order

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Drafted

• Bo Allan - Pick 16
• Jobe Shanahan - Pick 30
• Tom Gross - Pick 46
• Lucca Grego - Pick 48
• Hamish Davis - Pick 65
• Malakai Champion - Cat B

List Spots Available

• One on either main OR rookie list to be filled as a SSP selection following train on assessments

Trade and draft period

In: F1, F2, F3, Baker, Owies, Graham, Allan, Shanahan, Gross, Grego, Davis, Champion
Out: 3, 63, F3, F4, Barrass, Darling

 

[Mattman93]

Not really. Unless you didn't watch Travaglia when he got unleashed at times this year for the Pioneers.
Towards the end of the season Travaglia spent periods in the forward line kicking multiple goals in 4 of the last 8 games he played. Against the Dragons he almost single-handedly took the Pioneers to a win with three goals in the last quarter.
Also whether Duggan was a line-breaker pre-draft is debatable but, outside of a moment or two every few games he really has not demonstrated that ability in a long time. Rarely does he take the game on with the ball tucked under his arm. This is where Tobie thrives, particularly in the second halves of games where he can sprint passed players who are clearly fatigued and cannot keep up with him. Typically this is right through the centre of the ground.
Now Duggan may have had a good (or even elite disposal) at U18s level. He definitely doesn't now.
I think Duggan's football IQ is alright. He is just not quick enough or has good enough foot skills to make use of it.
Also Travaglia is 188cm and aerially elite. Duggan has grown since he was drafted but he has never demonstrated that he has any meaningful aerial prowess. At best he would halve a one-on-one.
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Which one is your phone background?

 

[eaglespremiers]

Which one is your phone background?

A photo of my daughter, which I won't post here.
I did have Tom Barrass' mark against Hawthorn for a number of years:

 

[aussierulesrules]

I like this, everything we got for barass and 26 for 8, 32, 47

Out - Hawks f1 + Hawks f2 + Hawks f3 + 26
In - 8, 32, 47

Draft hand - 8,12,32,47,73

8 - Draper, Langford
12 - Travaglia/Lindsay/Berry/Allan
32 - Boxshall/Mraz
47 - Dennis
73 - Champion

All we've lost is an f4 via the barass trade. Have no issue without the need for 2 firsts next year (after past experiences during the trade period)

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Trading out of this years draft and into next years isn’t a good option for us, as we’ve made 10 list changes this offseason and only brought in Macrae so far, so we’re going to be loading up big-time on this draft. As it stands, I read we only have 30 on our senior list right now.

We may be using our 4 live picks, then potentially matching bids for Cole, Hoffman and Peckett. So we need picks this year, not next.

 

[Dale Doback]

I'm not worried about Melbourne at pick 9, someone will slide. But Richmond at 10 and 11 sniping us for Bo after the Baker trade....anger

 

[stallon]

So 6 list spots assuming L.Edwards goes. Keep that Edwards spot for DFA/SSP.
Up to 5 players to add via draft then.

Swap our f2+hawks f2 for 28+31 from the Bombers, then swap 26 for the bombers f2+f3 after.
Offer Richmond hawks f1+ess f2+ess f3 for pick 11(on draft night if 2 of the 3 main guys we want are there), they owe us a slight favour after the Baker thing.
Take picks 11, 12, 28, 31 and 73 into the draft

Travaglia + Allan/Lindsay + Moraes + Barrat + Champion.

Future KPD sorted, and outside run sorted

Still have our f1, f3 and hawks f3 for next year.
Forget Warner, take Rodriguez with our f1, then just make sure we have points to match bids.

 

[We_The_West]

My issue with taking Josh Smillie at our first pick is he gives me Jai Culley/Brander vibes being that tall big bodied mid who dominates against young boys but will get found out in the AFL and not really have a position...

From his highlights and combine results he looks quite slow and not exactly a nimble/agile 194cm type.

Additionally, if the Melbourne clubs let him slide down that far then there must be some red flags...

 

[Goomba1973]

My issue with taking Josh Smillie at our first pick is he gives me Jai Culley/Brander vibes being that tall big bodied mid who dominates against young boys but will get found out in the AFL and not really have a position...

From his highlights and combine results he looks quite slow and not exactly a nimble/agile 194cm type.

Additionally, if the Melbourne clubs let him slide down that far then there must be some red flags...

Paddy Cripps gave the recruiters the same , too slow vibes and he slipped to 13. Smille is a pure mid with a point of difference being his size. Culley wasn't even picked in the national draft let alone in the discussion for a top 10 pick, his red flags were warranted, Brander was a forward but we tried to turn him into a mid/wing. If Smillie is there at our first pick then we should take him.

 

[Goomba1973]

So 6 list spots assuming L.Edwards goes. Keep that Edwards spot for DFA/SSP.
Up to 5 players to add via draft then.

Swap our f2+hawks f2 for 28+31 from the Bombers, then swap 26 for the bombers f2+f3 after.
Offer Richmond hawks f1+ess f2+ess f3 for pick 11(on draft night if 2 of the 3 main guys we want are there), they owe us a slight favour after the Baker thing.
Take picks 11, 12, 28, 31 and 73 into the draft

Travaglia + Allan/Lindsay + Moraes + Barrat + Champion.

Future KPD sorted, and outside run sorted

Still have our f1, f3 and hawks f3 for next year.
Forget Warner, take Rodriguez with our f1, then just make sure we have points to match bids.

Replace Barrat for Jaxon Artemis

 

[We_The_West]

Paddy Cripps gave the recruiters the same , too slow vibes and he slipped to 13. Smille is a pure mid with a point of difference being his size. Culley wasn't even picked in the national draft let alone in the discussion for a top 10 pick, his red flags were warranted, Brander was a forward but we tried to turn him into a mid/wing. If Smillie is there at our first pick then we should take him.

Paddy Cripps was more a bolter than a slider in the 2013 draft from memory (he also grew almost 20cm in his draft year)... Sheed went before him and WC traded back for this reason. Matty Crouch was the highest rated inside mid of that year

Smillie zero point of difference playing mid at AFL level, his weaknesses are his burst speed and his contested marking... what good is a slow 194cm mid who can't take a contested mark (and he is not considered a "bull" like Cripps and other inside mids are described)... then he rests forward to clog up our already tall-heavy forward line?

This draft has enough smaller, fast and skillful types we need or a KPD

 

[Goomba1973]

Paddy Cripps was more a bolter than a slider in the 2013 draft from memory (he also grew almost 20cm in his draft year)... Sheed went before him and WC traded back for this reason. Matty Crouch was the highest rated inside mid of that year

Smillie zero point of difference playing mid at AFL level, his weaknesses are his burst speed and his contested marking... what good is a slow 194cm mid who can't take a contested mark (and he is not considered a "bull" like Cripps and other inside mids are described)... then he rests forward to clog up our already tall-heavy forward line?

This draft has enough smaller, fast and skillful types we need or a KPD

I could not disagree with you more (apart from his dismal marking ability) . Smillie is a gun mid, very agile for a guy his size, breaks tackles, uses the ball very well and gets hands to it first with his long reach, has very good endurance and makes good decisions with ball in hand. He was a down from his best in the carnival, but still averaged just under 19 touches, 10 contested and 6 score involvements I have watched a lot of Smillie this year and though I don't put him on the same level as O'Sullivan or Smith at this stage, his upside potential IMO exceeds anyone else in this years draft
(except for O'Sullivan)

 

[We_The_West]

I could not disagree with you more (apart from his dismal marking ability) . Smillie is a gun mid, very agile for a guy his size, breaks tackles, uses the ball very well and gets hands to it first with his long reach, has very good endurance and makes good decisions with ball in hand. He was a down from his best in the carnival, but still averaged just under 19 touches, 10 contested and 6 score involvements I have watched a lot of Smillie this year and though I don't put him on the same level as O'Sullivan or Smith at this stage, his upside potential IMO exceeds anyone else in this years draft
(except for O'Sullivan)

Smillie has a huge potential upside, but whether he fulfils that potential remains to be seen.

We need to compare him to other mids, and not other "guys his size".

Compared to the other top mids of the draft, he is slower, less agile, lower endurance, less defensively minded etc etc.

"While usually a polished and poised user, Smillie was tested at the National Championships. Other, smaller midfielders lifted with the pace of the game, and he was afforded less time to play to his own cruisy tempo. As a result, his kicking efficiency fell to 56 per cent and much of his impact centred around the stoppages. He struggled to get involved in his second position as a forward, too."

Josh Smillie Draft Profile

Long touted as a pick one contender for 2024, Josh Smillie offers innate stoppage craft, poise and versatility at 195cm.

central.rookieme.com

I think we are hoping for some run and gun quick ball movement under Mini and Smillie doesn't seem to fit his game style.

I hope he gets a good run at it and best of luck to him but WC can do a lot better.

 

[Wooshaaaa]

Allan really isnt that much like Ginbey at all. Hes a great athlete and a hb/mid but hes far more agile and explosive, and can do more damage with the ball. Ginbey is more defensively minded.

Exactly. I can see him in the midfield with reid hewett quite easily.

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[Obeanie1]

Pretty sure guys like Twomey think there’s enough interest in Tarau from multiple clubs that he wouldn’t make it to 10.

If we’ve gone with someone who plays midfield with our first pick we could easily go in a different direction with our next one.

And Tarau would presumably be an ideal Battle replacement obviously.

Wouldn’t put it past Melbourne to grab him at 9, either. May 33yo next year and Lever 29.

He's a reach for any club taking him top 10.

A club would need to be desperate for talls to take him ahead of the quality mids and other talls IMO.

North are creating the interest in him.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

The Bombers trade is a no brainer if they agree to it. Had a bit of a look with the draft points calculator as a rough guide assuming same ladder positions:

OUT: 26, F2 (WCE), F2 (HAW), F3 (HAW)
IN: 28, 31, 46, F2 (ESS)
View attachment 2154124
28 and 31 take best KPD and best mid left on the board.

The one good thing we did out of the trade period was load up into next years draft when we have 3 father son/academy potential picks, Warner to bring home, and a stack of clubs who will be desperate to buy points in 2025 using 2026 draft capital. To burn that getting back into this draft is insanity.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Given the talk that Melbourne and St Kilda are very interested in Bo, if we did happen to do that trade with North (say pick 7 and our future 1st, for 2 and change), and they took Tauru at 7, and 6 “mids” (plus Ashcroft) had been taken prior to that, do you think you guys might try to trade up from 12 to 8, to ensure you could get Bo?

Either so we wouldn’t take him at 8, or Melbourne wouldn’t take him at 9?

Now let me think why we spend silly picks like that. Oh yes, he comes from Western Australian. Geez, you must have thought deeply about that post. Are you related to Sam McClure or Jon Ralph?

My advice to St Blunders list team - stop screwing it up. While your recruitment in 2017 was an abhorrent failure when you had a similar hand, just stick and pick this year. You are well positioned at 7 and 8 to get one of the best talls and an elite mid. Start managing your list and stop going to the AFL with your begging bowl.

We hopefully pick a mid at 12 and plenty of Harley’s Vic Country team mates to choose from.

Do us all a favour:
1) Make sure you pick Reid if he is still there at 7. A very good prospect and a great pick but hearing he is a Bayside mummy’s boy so will be a bargain for you
2) After your president did his poor Saints speech, you must bid on Lombard and Kako at 7. Failure to bid will show lack of integrity.
3) Check the bromide in the water at Morrabin - it may explain lack of F/S success.


BTW - your club’s refusal to release Russell Reynolds back to Claremont in the 70’s meaning he had to sit out of football for a year has a lot to explain why I am still snarly

 

[eaglevision]

The one good thing we did out of the trade period was load up into next years draft when we have 3 father son/academy potential picks, Warner to bring home, and a stack of clubs who will be desperate to buy points in 2025 using 2026 draft capital. To burn that getting back into this draft is insanity.

Using ladder positions it’s F21, 26, F31, F49 for F27, 28, 31, 46. Hardly a burn trading almost equal points into this year’s deep draft and we get ahead of 12 months development. We retain our F3 to match a bid on Walley, have ESS F2 to match a bid on Banfield or trade it down and take our F1 and Hawks F1 into the draft for players like Rodriguez and Curtin or use as capital for Warner. That’s not insanity at all. Insanity would be trading back in for overs which that deal is very clearly not.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Using ladder positions it’s F21, 26, F31, F49 for 27, 28, 31, 46. Hardly a burn trading almost equal points into this year’s deep draft and we get ahead of 12 months development. We retain our F3 to match a bid on Walley, have ESS F2 to match a bid on Banfield or trade it down and take our F1 and Hawks F1 into the draft for players like Rodriguez and Curtin or use as capital for Warner. That’s not insanity at all. Insanity would be trading back in for overs which that deal is very clearly not.

If, and "if" is doing a lot of work here, you can get a deal that makes sense sure. But most deals i see lead to us burning capital. That is what I'm against. We had a chance to be in this draft and we made decisions (right or wrongly), not to be. It's too late to fix that.

 

[mat11]

The one good thing we did out of the trade period was load up into next years draft when we have 3 father son/academy potential picks, Warner to bring home, and a stack of clubs who will be desperate to buy points in 2025 using 2026 draft capital. To burn that getting back into this draft is insanity.

You have to go to the draft to rebuild a squad, Baker and Warner (who I love) will end up costing us prob 3-4 very early first rounders. To me that is insanity, the sugar hit these players will bring doesn't fill the holes in 3+ years

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[eaglevision]

If, and "if" is doing a lot of work here, you can get a deal that makes sense sure. But most deals i see lead to us burning capital. That is what I'm against. We had a chance to be in this draft and we made decisions (right or wrongly), not to be. It's too late to fix that.

I 100% agree with you on that. I posted yesterday it would be negligent to trade out of the top end of the draft only to then trade back in and get skimmed twice.

The deal I’ve proposed is a presence in the middle of the 2R and the cost is comparable picks next year whilst retaining the capital for our 2025 FS and NGA obligations. If there’s downside to that I can’t see it.

 

[Obeanie1]

Watched the radio podcast with Scotty Cumming's and Goss.

They did a 5 things West Coast must do in 2025.

Talking draft they both agreed we need one or two left footers running through the midfield. We have been too one sided for too long. They said we need a skillful left footer who can break lines.

Gave myself an uppercut when they both started talking about Bo Allan. As he is a hard nut and quick but not a highly skilled left footer.


Then someone texted in Lindsay's profile and both frowned as if they didn't know him and said "sounds like the type we need".

We could do much worse taking Lindsay at 12 and Oliver at 26. Both left footers. One a mid the other a damaging half back. Both rated as good ball users in area's we need good ball users.

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Im not suggesting it would be bad necessarily, but they sound like somewhat similar sorts of players.
Need some points of difference in the side.

We have very few genuine outside options .
Sheed cooked
Chesser failed need to be tried on ball or HBF
Maric better used elsewhere like defence
HJ work in progress
Long ? More a ball winner

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Exactly. I can see him in the midfield with reid hewett quite easily.

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Reid will have Hutchinson this season hopefully.
Hewett is a bonus if he can get on the park

 

[Keys]

How best to use our draft assets

2024 - Picks 12,26,73,81 (+RD pick 3 if needed)
2025 - 2xR1, 2xR2, 2xR3

We currently have 5 main and 1 rookie list spots available with a decision pending on Luke Edwards who we should move to the rookie list to give us 6 main list openings

The plan should be to take at least 4 players in the draft (including Champion) and to recruit at least one player via DFA/SSP - Jack Carroll looms as the best prospect for that. That fills 5 of the 6 overall spots

The 4th draftee this year could be using whichever of 73 or 81 we don’t need for Champion (both those picks will come in on draft night to a pick in the low 60’s and mid to high 60’s due bid matching and clubs passing on picks late). Alternatively, and IMO preferably, we should be using ONE of our F2/F3 picks to trade back into this years draft in the 30-50 range

If we do that then we have one spot left with the following options to use :

• Trade for a 4th pick inside 50 using a F2/F3 pick (unlikely but it’s an option especially if someone we liked is sliding)
• Use the late draft pick still (possible that some useful players available still - Clancy Dennis, Artemis, maybe even Urquhart off the top of my head)
• Pick 3 in the rookie draft (Knobel maybe, albeit I don’t think we’ll do that)
• Another DFA/SSP signing (Prior, Parfitt, Grainger-Barrass, Phillips, Clurey, Burgiel are all options here)

Probably a decision best made during the draft when it becomes clear who is actually available late in the draft

If Luke Edwards is eventually medically retired, which seems probable, then his position can be filled by a SSP selection post draft. If he isn’t he remains on the list for 2025, preferably on the rookie list.

What I think we should do
• Sign Carroll as a DFA
• Use 12,26
• Get another pick inside 40
• Match a late Champion bid (or draft as a rookie if no bid comes)
• If someone we liked is still on the board when our pick 81 comes up then use it, if not pass and fill the spot with a SSP signing via a train on position - I’d be hoping that becomes Burgiel

 

[amazingjoshy]

How best to use our draft assets

2024 - Picks 12,26,73,81 (+RD pick 3 if needed)
2025 - 2xR1, 2xR2, 2xR3

We currently have 5 main and 1 rookie list spots available with a decision pending on Luke Edwards who we should move to the rookie list to give us 6 main list openings

The plan should be to take at least 4 players in the draft (including Champion) and to recruit at least one player via DFA/SSP - Jack Carroll looms as the best prospect for that. That fills 5 of the 6 overall spots

The 4th draftee this year could be using whichever of 73 or 81 we don’t need for Champion (both those picks will come in on draft night to a pick in the low 60’s and mid to high 60’s due bid matching and clubs passing on picks late). Alternatively, and IMO preferably, we should be using ONE of our F2/F3 picks to trade back into this years draft in the 30-50 range

If we do that then we have one spot left with the following options to use :

• Trade for a 4th pick inside 50 using a F2/F3 pick (unlikely but it’s an option especially if someone we liked is sliding)
• Use the late draft pick still (possible that some useful players available still - Clancy Dennis, Artemis, maybe even Urquhart off the top of my head)
• Pick 3 in the rookie draft (Knobel maybe, albeit I don’t think we’ll do that)
• Another DFA/SSP signing (Prior, Parfitt, Grainger-Barrass, Phillips, Clurey, Burgiel are all options here)

Probably a decision best made during the draft when it becomes clear who is actually available late in the draft

If Luke Edwards is eventually medically retired, which seems probable, then his position can be filled by a SSP selection post draft. If he isn’t he remains on the list for 2025, preferably on the rookie list.

What I think we should do
• Sign Carroll as a DFA
• Use 12,26
• Get another pick inside 40
• Match a late Champion bid (or draft as a rookie if no bid comes)
• If someone we liked is still on the board when our pick 81 comes up then use it, if not pass and fill the spot with a SSP signing via a train on position - I’d be hoping that becomes Burgiel

Pretty minor point given how much late picks will come in, but it says in the spreadsheet in the pinned post at the top that the Hawks currently have 81. Our next is 99 according to that

 

[Mop]

How best to use our draft assets

2024 - Picks 12,26,73,81 (+RD pick 3 if needed)
2025 - 2xR1, 2xR2, 2xR3

We currently have 5 main and 1 rookie list spots available with a decision pending on Luke Edwards who we should move to the rookie list to give us 6 main list openings

The plan should be to take at least 4 players in the draft (including Champion) and to recruit at least one player via DFA/SSP - Jack Carroll looms as the best prospect for that. That fills 5 of the 6 overall spots

The 4th draftee this year could be using whichever of 73 or 81 we don’t need for Champion (both those picks will come in on draft night to a pick in the low 60’s and mid to high 60’s due bid matching and clubs passing on picks late). Alternatively, and IMO preferably, we should be using ONE of our F2/F3 picks to trade back into this years draft in the 30-50 range

If we do that then we have one spot left with the following options to use :

• Trade for a 4th pick inside 50 using a F2/F3 pick (unlikely but it’s an option especially if someone we liked is sliding)
• Use the late draft pick still (possible that some useful players available still - Clancy Dennis, Artemis, maybe even Urquhart off the top of my head)
• Pick 3 in the rookie draft (Knobel maybe, albeit I don’t think we’ll do that)
• Another DFA/SSP signing (Prior, Parfitt, Grainger-Barrass, Phillips, Clurey, Burgiel are all options here)

Probably a decision best made during the draft when it becomes clear who is actually available late in the draft

If Luke Edwards is eventually medically retired, which seems probable, then his position can be filled by a SSP selection post draft. If he isn’t he remains on the list for 2025, preferably on the rookie list.

What I think we should do
• Sign Carroll as a DFA
• Use 12,26
• Get another pick inside 40
• Match a late Champion bid (or draft as a rookie if no bid comes)
• If someone we liked is still on the board when our pick 81 comes up then use it, if not pass and fill the spot with a SSP signing via a train on position - I’d be hoping that becomes Burgiel

I really do think we need to take a spare tall as a DFA / SSP, be it DGB or the dude from Port - Clurey was it?