The Association Football Cricket thread

[RPCB]

if they make it to 300 ahead or there is rain again it will. it's just disheartening that once again we collapse and we're not really under that much pressure

It’s session 2 of Day 5 with Australia still batting currently. I would be astonished if a further 14 wickets fall today or India bat very soon and just start annihilating the bowlers and it’s turned into a run frenzy. I would love to see either scenario though, that would be fun cricket.

 

[99 Problems]

Looking at the radar not sure we see much more cricket but if it misses the ground this is seriously ballsy by Cummins

 

[glenferry23]

The aerial view with those dark clouds look very ominous. I wonder how many overs they’ll manage to fit in.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Collapse is meaningless. Were never going to lose.
McSweeney looks like a fish out of water up top.

But I'd play Konstas all summer in the Shield.

 

[99 Problems]

Wouldn’t be keen to give anyone a debut at Boxing Day. 100,000 crowd, up against Bumrah and one of our biggest matches in decades is a big ask for a kid.

I’d be getting him in for Sydney if it’s a dead rubber and if not Sri Lanka though.

 

[UnitedWarrior93]

Collapse is meaningless. Were never going to lose.
McSweeney looks like a fish out of water up top.

But I'd play Konstas all summer in the Shield.

Yeah the collapse meant bugger all, was always ending a draw.

 

[glenferry23]

Would’ve loved to have seen even 40-45 overs of India have a crack at that chase. Especially with Pant in that line up, would’ve been great viewing.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Wouldn’t be keen to give anyone a debut at Boxing Day. 100,000 crowd, up against Bumrah and one of our biggest matches in decades is a big ask for a kid.

I’d be getting him in for Sydney if it’s a dead rubber and if not Sri Lanka though.

Can’t be a dead runner at 1-1 with two tests to play.

McSweeney is struggling in an unfamiliar role. Think it’s been tough asking him to open in this series against Bumrah. I’d play Konstas

 

[99 Problems]

Can’t be a dead runner at 1-1 with two tests to play.

McSweeney is struggling in an unfamiliar role. Think it’s been tough asking him to open in this series against Bumrah. I’d play Konstas

True but it means a lot less if Australia are down 2-1 and not actually playing for the trophy. The test championship means there aren’t really dead rubbers at the moment anyway I guess.

Do the selectors have the guts to pick him and stick til the end of the ashes no matter how he performs would be the worry. And do a few failures against India mean he starts that series with more or less pressure on him. Let’s be honest that current England attack is shield level compared to the quality India have.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

True but it means a lot less if Australia are down 2-1 and not actually playing for the trophy. The test championship means there aren’t really dead rubbers at the moment anyway I guess.

Do the selectors have the guts to pick him and stick til the end of the ashes no matter how he performs would be the worry. And do a few failures against India mean he starts that series with more or less pressure on him. Let’s be honest that current England attack is shield level compared to the quality India have.

Yeah can see your point. I just think it's quite unfair on McSweeney. We've seen with Steve Smith how hard it is for a lower order batter to open. Smith fails so lets get a rookie to do the same. Silly stuff.

 

[glenferry23]

I think he needs to play out the series and reassess from there. He’s been thrown to the wolves a bit, Bumrah has him on toast. Same with Khawaja actually, Bumrah has them both covered so far this series. So it’s difficult to read too much beyond, it’s a small sample size so far.

 

[glenferry23]

The Ashwin retirement seems to have come out of nowhere. Lovely scenes I saw of Lyon and Cummins presenting him with a signed shirt from the Australian team last evening after play, classy touch.

Outstanding career really. 537 Test wickets at 24. In addition to 3,500+ runs (with 6 Test centuries). Those career numbers put him in an elite category amongst some great Test players over the years.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Funny how things pan out, with no inclination he'd retire the discussion of Indian spinners came up in my local game on Saturday.

Kumble was the unanimous no.1. with many having Harbhajan as the 2nd best. The debate begun for 3rd best with many choosing Prasanna or Chandresaker or Bishan Bedi Singh.

Most were in agreement both Jadeja and Ashwin have Warner syndrome. Inflated stats due to home dominance, but poor away from home.

 

[Sozabarus]

Funny how things pan out, with no inclination he'd retire the discussion of Indian spinners came up in my local game on Saturday.

Kumble was the unanimous no.1. with many having Harbhajan as the 2nd best. The debate begun for 3rd best with many choosing Prasanna or Chandresaker or Bishan Bedi Singh.

Most were in agreement both Jadeja and Ashwin have Warner syndrome. Inflated stats due to home dominance, but poor away from home.

Think you’re being harsh here, Ashwin’s away record actually stacks up pretty well against Kumble and Harbhajan.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Think you’re being harsh here, Ashwin’s away record actually stacks up pretty well against Kumble and Harbhajan.

When sitting in front of a set of cricinfo stats sheets sure. This was just a bunch of guys all with 20-40 years cricket watching experience using that to form views.

Top of the list was that there's been a lot of blatantly doctored wickets in India in the last 10 years.
Probably a big reason for many that both Ashwin and Jadeja weren't viewed in the same light. I for one would take Lyon over both without hesitation. Played him all over the world where his record is respectable in most countries, and unlike the other two Australia don't leave him out of series he's expected to struggle. India have done that with both their guys.

Kumble and Harbhajan had to contend with far stronger Australia, West Indian and South African teams in particular. Think Kumble's 03/04 tour from memory was a very strong series. Albeit Harbhajan was also a home ground specialist so you probably have a very valid point on him.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Personally I'd have Kumble behind those two, mainly because he wasn't a spinner, he bowled darts.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Surely that counts in his favour. 600 test wickets against literally the best batsmen in the world without relying on spin.
If it was that easy then Afridi would also have done the same.

Vettori got a lot of wickets 2nd half of his career once he'd had back issues. Early career he spun it alot but later relied on changing pace, trajectory, spin vs arm balls etc.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Surely that counts in his favour. 600 test wickets against literally the best batsmen in the world without relying on spin.
If it was that easy then Afridi would also have done the same.

Vettori got a lot of wickets 2nd half of his career once he'd had back issues. Early career he spun it alot but later relied on changing pace, trajectory, spin vs arm balls etc.

Nah, again because of the home v away factor. He was poor in England and Australia, averaging 41 and 38. He darted, used the wicket to get his variation - basically a slow pace bowler and that was much more effective in the doctored pitches of the sub-continent.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Nah, again because of the home v away factor. He was poor in England and Australia, averaging 41 and 38. He darted, used the wicket to get his variation - basically a slow pace bowler and that was much more effective in the doctored pitches of the sub-continent.

Timing was the issue with the '08 tour. He was about to retire and on his last legs. Still took 20 wickets in the 4 tests (only Lee had more for the series).

'03/04 was a top series. Lead the series with 24 wickets. 5fa, 6fa and 8fa against Langer, Hayden, Ponting, Martyn, Waugh, Katich and Gilchrist. Better than anything Harbhajan, Jadeja or Ashwin have done in Aus or England.

Average in England vs Ashwin looks to be as simple as playing in a stronger era for batting and needing to bowl more overs. Both had solid economy rates.

18 wickets in 11 inns for RA. AK had 9 innings in England with 3+ wickets. Just bowled a lot of overs in those matches. 2W-6D-2L. Ashwin however bowled less as they lost all but 1 game (1W-0D-6L) and 3 of those were by an innings, meaning 3/7 matches he bowled just the once. Also sucking overs out of those games is that only 2 of 7 matches went to day 5.

There's a snapshot for 15 years ago to now for test batting ability if I ever saw one. Most on Kumble's petered out to draws. Most of Ashwin's over with 3-4 days.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Timing was the issue with the '08 tour. He was about to retire and on his last legs. Still took 20 wickets in the 4 tests (only Lee had more for the series).

'03/04 was a top series. Lead the series with 24 wickets. 5fa, 6fa and 8fa against Langer, Hayden, Ponting, Martyn, Waugh, Katich and Gilchrist. Better than anything Harbhajan, Jadeja or Ashwin have done in Aus or England.

Average in England vs Ashwin looks to be as simple as playing in a stronger era for batting and needing to bowl more overs. Both had solid economy rates.

18 wickets in 11 inns for RA. AK had 9 innings in England with 3+ wickets. Just bowled a lot of overs in those matches. 2W-6D-2L. Ashwin however bowled less as they lost all but 1 game (1W-0D-6L) and 3 of those were by an innings, meaning 3/7 matches he bowled just the once. Also sucking overs out of those games is that only 2 of 7 matches went to day 5.

There's a snapshot for 15 years ago to now for test batting ability if I ever saw one. Most on Kumble's petered out to draws. Most of Ashwin's over with 3-4 days.

There is no way that the batting of England was better during Kumble's bowling period.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Gooch, Gower, Lamb, R.Smith, Flintoff, Vaughan, Atherton, Thorpe, Hussain, Stewart, Trescothick, Collingwood, Strauss, Bell, Pietersen and Cook.

vs

Root, Ballance, Bell, Cook, Malan, Bairstow, Stokes, Pope, Buttler.

That's really the more notable players from batting cards both played in. Definitely taking the top list over the bottom.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Gooch, Gower, Lamb, R.Smith, Flintoff, Vaughan, Atherton, Thorpe, Hussain, Stewart, Trescothick, Collingwood, Strauss, Bell, Pietersen and Cook.

vs

Root, Ballance, Bell, Cook, Malan, Bairstow, Stokes, Pope, Buttler.

That's really the more notable players from batting cards both played in. Definitely taking the top list over the bottom.

Notable but good? No. Not all of them.

 

[Jatz]

England's two best batsman are in the second group - there's more names in the top group, that doesn't make them better.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

The top group weren't so shit they had to resort to the flawed 'Bazball' concept to become competitive.