Discussion The Blockbuster: Round 12 vs Bulldogs

[stkildathunda]

Great coast to coast goal to Dal Santo from last nights game after a controversial decision. IMO correct decision was made as Daniel Cross clearly picks the ball up and takes 4 steps. They wouldnt be complaining if he actually kicked it through. But play on rule is a joke and should be abolished.

[YOUTUBE]HNgPxqDQXzk[/YOUTUBE]

 

[stkildathunda]

[YOUTUBE]2Y9LtPyM4Kk[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

R Clarke is quite simply not an A grade AFL footballer. He may be many things at a lesser level, but at the elite he can't string it together consistently, is dogged by injuries caused by playing at the higher level, and makes far too many mistakes caused by the pressure applied by the best footballers in the land.
Extreamly disappointed selection by Lyon.

This is a ridiculous post. Mind you, you wanted the Saints to draft Djerrkura simply because he looked "mean"

Sammy boy having an absolute mare. Poor kid.
Needs a spell in the magoos to get his confidence back.
Got no doubt once he gets it back he will be firing again.

Has had a solid 2-3 weeks prior. Don't be so reactive.

Hard to assess Gamble's game. Was instrumental in the Saints having 15 inside 50 tackles to 4 (and snagged a tough shot on goal) but I didn't feel as though he gave us a huge amount otherwise.

Not sure about SImmo if he's going to need subbing off each game - although I still like him as a player of the future as he'll get stronger and fitter.

Gamble got to at least 5 contests where the ball dipped on him at the last moment, which could have easily been marks. I still prefer Siposs long term, but if Siposs did what Gamble did last night, we'd be hailing him as the second coming.

Simpkin isn't up to it. Positioning is poor in contests and doesn't back his disposal. I'd like to see Walsh in.

Jones heaps of possession, nearly all turned over due to poor kicking and handball skills.

Baker.....please retire now while we have plenty of good memories.

Gilbert.... is there a brain in there?

Crappy game but at least a win, its going to be a long ugly rest of the season if RL doesn't persist with the new blood.

By the way I don't want to see Kosi play again, protect his health please.

Drinking and posting don't mix.

 

[LordJimmy]

Bulldogs fans are crying about the umpiring over there. A bit rich considering all of their goals in the second quarter were set up by incorrect descisions. And watching the video footage above, Cross is a moron and definitely played on.

Also, under the new interperetation of the throw rule, every centre bounce is now followed up with a free kick against the winning ruckman for a throw.

 

[Plugger35]

The umpires kept them in it in the first half.

The advantage call was a terrible call but we had some equally terrible decisions going against us like the Picken in the back free kick in the goalsquare from one of our players barely brushing his back.

On the whole I thought they got the better end of the umpiring.

 

[Squizz]

Gamble got to at least 5 contests where the ball dipped on him at the last moment, which could have easily been marks. I still prefer Siposs long term, but if Siposs did what Gamble did last night, we'd be hailing him as the second coming.

Simpkin isn't up to it. Positioning is poor in contests and doesn't back his disposal. I'd like to see Walsh in.

Absolutely I'd be excited if an 18yo produced what Gamble delivered last night. But that would on the basis that he'd still be expected to improve from there.

Gamble had an outstanding night defensively, and would certainly keep the kids at bay if he could maintain that effort.

But to be realistic, he's been in the system for a number of years and I think we know that aside from his missed shots on goal that was getting close to his maximum output as the second tall forward. He'll never be a dead cert 30m out on a slight angle and doesn't kick well on his left. Maybe he can maintain his leap for a few years (he needs to at 184cm) and keep the intensity in his tackling. He'd be worth keeping on the list if he can.

On Simmo, I didn't think there was much wrong with his positioning and whilst he can certainly work on his decision making I feel even more confident now that he can make it. Happy for him to go back into the VFL knowing what sort of intensity he needs to bring to the table (I've always said he's too relaxed when he has the ball).

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

Absolutely I'd be excited if an 18yo produced what Gamble delivered last night. But that would on the basis that he'd still be expected to improve from there.

Gamble had an outstanding night defensively, and would certainly keep the kids at bay if he could maintain that effort.

But to be realistic, he's been in the system for a number of years and I think we know that aside from his missed shots on goal that was getting close to his maximum output as the second tall forward. He'll never be a dead cert 30m out on a slight angle and doesn't kick well on his left. Maybe he can maintain his leap for a few years (he needs to at 184cm) and keep the intensity in his tackling. He'd be worth keeping on the list if he can.

On Simmo, I didn't think there was much wrong with his positioning and whilst he can certainly work on his decision making I feel even more confident now that he can make it. Happy for him to go back into the VFL knowing what sort of intensity he needs to bring to the table (I've always said he's too relaxed when he has the ball).

Understood about Gamble. I'm not declaring him as the solution to our issues, but if he was dropped on that performance I'd be worried. It's pretty bloody difficult playing as a forward for the Saints at the moment, so it's very hard to judge them. Siposs is the future, but needs to build a fitness base, which will come.

On Simmo. I was disappointed with his effort on Jones in the 2nd qtr, when the ball came in with a quick snap. He was too far off his opponent at that stage and the ball wasn't going to go anywhere but there. It's probably harsh but given our plethora of defenders, that needs to be improved if he's going to warrant a consistent game.

 

[MCG-Unit]

No Hall, Lake, Cooney. I'm disappointed we struggled to break the game open to be honest.

We still have too many sub-standard players on the team.

Still got plenty of youth to bring in so for now I'm happy with the win but 12 goals is a joke and isn't going to win many games.

No Hayes, Montagna or Gardiner. I'm glad the Saints had a solid win in quite a scrappy game

Good also that many of the younger players did well

 

[thomas_m18]

At the start of the season, I can remember a lot of people hoping for a forward line something like:

Gilbert / Riewoldt / Gamble
Milne / Stanley / Schneider

Now, Gilbert, we have realized, is not a forward, but there's no reason why we can't function something sorta similar like that next week against Geelong.

Peake / Riewoldt / Gamble
Milne / Stanley / Schneider

This is dependant on VFL form, but why can't this work? Stanley would have to be running all day and present a legitimate option, and we'd have to actually pass it to him, but surely, this can work.

Either way, Gamble has got this 3-4 week period to cement a spot, or he's gone. Siposs is a better long term option than Gamble is, and it's hard to argue against playing him, so Gamble has to make this period count. If he can do that, he can keep Siposs out. This could be his last chance. He can kick goals, we saw him kick goals in the NAB Cup, and his VFL record is good so far this year, but we have Willy J waiting for another crack. We have Archer. We have Stanley, Siposs and Kosi trying to get back into the side. Gamble needs to prove he's better than them, or he's gone.

 

[MCG-Unit]

The umpires kept them in it in the first half.

The advantage call was a terrible call but we had some equally terrible decisions going against us like the Picken in the back free kick in the goalsquare from one of our players barely brushing his back.

On the whole I thought they got the better end of the umpiring.

Completely agree.
7 frees in the forward 50 to the WB media darlings (Saints 3) I reckon 5 goals from frees.

That Cross one looked really bad, however he took a few steps and when it looked like he would be swamped, he stopped

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

I thought Simpkin plays a defensive role really rather well. Hasn't had a lot of goals kicked on him.

Also played at least a quarter in a bit of distress I reckon. Was cleaned up (friendly fire I think) in a marking contest and looked sore for the rest of the game. Still got up and made a freakin awesome tackle though.

He looks way too nervous with the ball sometimes. Probably cos he had absolutely ****ing nothing to kick to. I mean, what's the difference if he boots it 50 metres onto the chest of a Doggy. He cost us a goal with that mistake but it's not his fault there was absolutely no one giving him anything.

He works really hard and I think he's got a future. Would like to see Walsh too though.

Also now that I have an internet that can actually handle it, is there anywhere I can watch a replay? I'll have a look around the AFL website, but I don't like doing that

 

[StFly]

The contentious point of the Cross advantage play is the whole "player decides" with continual movement, basically with cross he initially decided toplayon and kick a goal and when that didn't seem like such a great idea (the 2-4 steps before "gee cramped kick...") he stopped dead. The umpire as right to call play on as that was what Cross had done, it'd be a blight on the game if everyone stops aftr hearing a whistle (to not give away 50 by continuing) and a player waltzes into goal because the goal would be chapened by the fact that everyone had stopped cause of the free, but then you have a situaion like this where Cross & Djerkurra get crucified because a bloke changed his mind.

Ultimately, cross was at fault for the screw up just as much as the umpire was (since he could recall it saying there was no advantage there) and either way you were going to have one fan base pissed off that it was either recalled when Cross clearly played on continuously in range of the goals and given back to DJ or that Cross second guessed his decision and stopped to cause the turnover goal. Which in itself, it's still deep in the Dogs forwardline and came from a contested situation through handball.

 

[karmafree]

Jones copping flack.
The Stats say he had better disposal efficiency than Armitage, Steven and Ray.

Baker seems to want to go round one more time.
http://www.saints.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/5315/newsid/115993/default.aspx

What is the official difference between disposal efficiency and a turn over SS?

 

[Squizz]

http://www.sportal.com.au/afl-news-display/lyon-angry-despite-win-125920

An angry St Kilda coach Ross Lyon has berated his players behind closed doors.

Lyon could be heard shouting at the Saints after they prevailed in a match riddled with skill errors from two top four teams from last season.

After having time, a little more than the usual 25 minutes post-match, to compose himself:

"I think tonight highlighted where both teams are at," he said.

"Our skill level continues to let us down."

"We saw some glimpses, but it is quite frustrating the gap between our best and our worst, even within games."

 

[thomas_m18]

Would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in that. Winning doesn't excuse a poor performance, and I hope he lets them know that and keeps them hungry for the Cats game.

 

[Highlander35]

The contentious point of the Cross advantage play is the whole "player decides" with continual movement, basically with cross he initially decided toplayon and kick a goal and when that didn't seem like such a great idea (the 2-4 steps before "gee cramped kick...") he stopped dead. The umpire as right to call play on as that was what Cross had done, it'd be a blight on the game if everyone stops aftr hearing a whistle (to not give away 50 by continuing) and a player waltzes into goal because the goal would be chapened by the fact that everyone had stopped cause of the free, but then you have a situaion like this where Cross & Djerkurra get crucified because a bloke changed his mind.

Ultimately, cross was at fault for the screw up just as much as the umpire was (since he could recall it saying there was no advantage there) and either way you were going to have one fan base pissed off that it was either recalled when Cross clearly played on continuously in range of the goals and given back to DJ or that Cross second guessed his decision and stopped to cause the turnover goal. Which in itself, it's still deep in the Dogs forwardline and came from a contested situation through handball.

Case of good call, shit rule.

 

[The Punter]

Gram ran the game really hard, with and without the ball. Will keep his place.

Gamble did enough.

Clarke's tackling was first rate.

Simpkin looks the one in trouble to keep his spot. Ledger is an offensive player and a good sub, taking Cripps' spot in the side, so he should stay.

 

[Fehring]

Peake has three really "pleasing" games in a row. I think our faster play-on game is suiting him.

Gamble was terrific in the forward line. People tend to underestimate the importance of work done off the ball or in packs, but I think he gave our forward line greater flexibility because he was making creative leads, busting packs and chasing down guys from behind. His tackling was vital - we haven't really had someone doing that in our F50 since Mini in 09. Would be nice if he could keep it up, but that's a pretty big if (his two good games so far have been v Geelong in the NAB Cup and v Geelong in the VFL, so hopefully he fires next week at least).

Milney - along with Lenny he carried us in Roo's absence last year. Again this year, I think his leadership has been unbelievable. The way he celebrated other players' goals, the way he was celebrating with the team after the game - he is clearly taking it upon himself to lift the club's mood, to drag it back to form. I love this man.

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Milney - along with Lenny he carried us in Roo's absence last year. Again this year, I think his leadership has been unbelievable. The way he celebrated other players' goals, the way he was celebrating with the team after the game - he is clearly taking it upon himself to lift the club's mood, to drag it back to form. I love this man.

Loved kicking the footy with my mates back in the day, snapping and dribbling it through screaming 'MILNEYYYYYYYY'. Great times.

I think every year since about 2006 I was thinking it's just a matter of time until he's gone. Surely he can't keep it up with an aging body.

Amazing bloke. And if it wasn't for certain crap that happened circa 7 years ago he would get the respect he truly deserves. Maybe when he notches up his 500th goal sometime next year....

He really is a massive part of the club and will always be one of my favourite players.

Love you Milney.

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Watching the replay atm. He's certainly not underrated by (IMO) people with a little more of an idea about footy than the general public (and 'journalists')

Leigh Matthews: 'Gee, well thats a goal kicker isn't it?'

'A player that knows what he's doing'

'Nice finish by a nice finisher'

Tom Harley: 'He does it better than anyone else I reckon' with Matthews agreeing with him in the background.

Also, Gamble, at about the 10 mintue mark of the second has had 4 kicks land at his feet or just above his outstretched arms. We did aim for him, just not very well.

 

[karmafree]

If I get time I'll try and watch a replay of the game, but seriously L2M4G you have to admit Clarke is just not upto it, he has been given too many chances for too limited a return. You really should be one of our Mods with your memory I am seriously impressed with you remembering what I said about the mean looking man. What do you think of my net 30 points negative from him in the first 1/2?
For Punter, mate, his tackling was hopeless, players just side stepped him , ran through him, or he just wildly flung his arms about because he didn't man up correctly.
Now the thing that irks me the most about Clarke is his condolences to his team mates if they stuff something up, rubs there hair or pats them, piss off.
Anyway enough of posting on him.
If you go back to one of my earlier posts in the year,L2M4G, its having too many defenders in the team, which others are commenting on continues to stymie us. Clarke Dempster Jones Blake you can have 2 but not 4 IMO. One of our crucial men is hopelessly out of form, Gilbert, I suspected as much when the off seasons scandals broke that I doubted he had the where with all to deal with it. Unfortunately proven to be correct. Can you imagine how much better we would be if he improved on his previous years like Gwilt and Fisher have. So we get another dud defender in the mix, hopefully for his and our sake this is an aberration and he will continue growing as a player.
Admission: Didn't drink at all while watching the game. Hope I haven't come across all defensive but just wanted to explain a little more.

 

[Fehring]

Two more observations from me.

First, even when Raph has a middling game, he still gets an extraordinary amount of commentary, both good and bad.

Second, I reckon this game was a lot better than it's been reviewed. I listened live and then watched the replay. From the commentary I was expecting a really lacklustre game, but the endeavour from both sides after quarter time was exceptional. Yes, there were a lot of simple skill errors, but a lot of them also came from the pressure being applied. Keep in mind that, even at our peak, games between the Saints and Dogs were snoozefests. Remember that game in about round 4 last year? I'd Keep the Fisher go-ahead goal, ditch the rest.

I reckon we will be a massive handful for the Cats this week. We always match up well against them.

 

[Plugger35]

Watching the replay atm. He's certainly not underrated by (IMO) people with a little more of an idea about footy than the general public (and 'journalists')

Leigh Matthews: 'Gee, well thats a goal kicker isn't it?'

'A player that knows what he's doing'

'Nice finish by a nice finisher'

Tom Harley: 'He does it better than anyone else I reckon' with Matthews agreeing with him in the background.

Also, Gamble, at about the 10 mintue mark of the second has had 4 kicks land at his feet or just above his outstretched arms. We did aim for him, just not very well.

Yeah hard to blame Gamble when the delivery into our forward line is so atrocious. Just so frustrating to see us do all the hard work to win possession and then waste it with terrible delivery to our forwards.

So many times we either kick it at the leading forward's feet or over their heads or even worse just kick it straight to the opposition. Must be so frustrating for our forwards at times. What we would give for a Harvey or Hayes who can reliably pinpoint a chest pass, Dal Santo is about the only current midfielder who can do it regularly but we're playing him mainly in defence at the moment.

The good thing about Gamble on Friday night was that even though things weren't working for him offensively he worked hard defensively which is something he isn't normally noted for. Laid some great tackles and harrassed and pressured well, obviously Lyon told him that he needed to improve in that area much like he did with Milney when he was dropped a few years ago.

Speaking of Milney, he was fantastic again. With Riewoldt struggling he is our most reliable avenue to goal and his ability to create goals from nowhere is worth it's wait in gold. Love his enthusiasm too, he really gets the team and crowd going with his celebrations even when it's others kicking goals.

I think he was the one that dished that last goal off to Ledger when he probably could have kicked it himself and then was the first to congratulate him. Seen him do the same with Cripps, Steven and Armitage when they have kicked goals. Great to have a senior player like him making the youngsters feel part of it and bringing them into the game.

Everyone talks about the importance of Hayes, Riewoldt, Goddard, Dal Santo, Montagna and Fisher but Milney is equally important.

 

[thomas_m18]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/116168/default.aspx

St Kilda midfielder Brett Peake can both accept $900 sanctions for making negligent contact with an umpire.

Watch the video, it's the first incident in the video. We're not taking a $900 fine for that, surely. I don't care if it's just a fine, he shouldn't be fined for a guy tripping over.

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

I think they accidentally a word there.