Discussion The Blockbuster: Round 12 vs Bulldogs

[stkildathunda]

Realistically last week went as everyone probably expected, cant see anyone stopping those Ferals from going back to back this year and it shows we are the length of the Melbourne Cup from having a tilt at the flag, but thats enough about them. This week its battle of the fallen heavyweights and the loser of this game will come under even more scrutiny and hate to say it but the pressure will become enormous on the losing coach. Bulldogs are terrible, we are very average. Cant you just wait for this blockbuster

As a result of being out of contention we really need to keep playing the kids and giving them 3 or more games in a row. Simpkin was pretty impressive after a few early nerves (but who wouldnt be in front of 60K on debut) and Ledger was just awesome in his limited game time..

Injury concern with Montagna, didnt look right all week but early reports are that he will be good to go.

Raph Clarke dominated down at Sandy again and with his form will come into consideration. Kosi was just plain terrible and if he is selected then a royal commission has to be had into how this bloke is getting gifted games.

Not sure id really change the side a hell of a lot. Keep giving the kids gametime for experience but we do need a big FF who can run so maybe Archer or Stanley have to come in, they can then also help out McEvoy in the ruck. Id hate to see Walsh come in at the expense of Simpkin and cant see Ross dropping Zac as he is still our only key defender we have.


OUT: Polo/Bakes
IN: Stanley

Saints should really win this game but these are the types of games we are renowned of losing. If we do lose i can see Bakes, Gards & Blake all announcing their retirement as season will be dead and buried and we might as well play more kids in their spots.

 

[West Vic Saint]

Sounds like Raph Clarke deserves a re-call.

By all reports Tommy Walsh proved his worth as a full back while playing for Sandy.

He may be a good match up for Hall if he plays - if he doesn't I can't see him getting a game as the Dogs don't have a Cloke-Dawes combo that will stretch us one-on-one.

Stanley v Archer - IMO Stanley has more talent but seems to biding his time until he turns into a star. Archer on the other hand appears to have more desire and wants to make an impact straight away.

Would love to see Ledger and Siposs get on the end of a few in this match.

 

[krusden]

For mine:

OUT: Polo, dawson

IN: Walsh, archer.

Polo still hasn't been de-richmonised and his dropped marks aren't good enough, dawson is in awful form specifically against the bigger forwards. The dogs may have a smaller forwardline with hall out, but other sides do not. dawson is being repeatedly out manouevered and should IMO only play against smaller forwardlines.

Walsh should come in for dawson at full back against a depleted doggy line up and archer as the second ruck because I do NOT want to see Gwilt as a ruck. He is too valuable a player to have him potentially hurt himself against other full-time ruckmen. I know he tried, but I want gwilt in the backline all night specifically if Fisher is going to range up the ground.

 

[number35]

dawson is in awful form specifically against the bigger forwards. The dogs may have a smaller forwardline with hall out, but other sides do not. dawson is being repeatedly out manouevered and should IMO only play against smaller forwardlines.

so u want to drop him? he is out of form, but he was thrown to the wolves a bit against cloke. i think with fisher going into the midfield and blake injured, walsh should come in as our second big defender.

i do agree that Polo needs to go, and perhaps even Ray. its the turnovers that kill us, and i think we have more midfield options now that steven, fisher and gilbert have more of a run through the middle.

MIDS: Dal Santo, Montagna, Goddard, Fisher, Jones, Schneider, Armitage, Steven (won the clearances last week), Peake, Ledger, Gilbert, even Milne gets a bit of a run through there now and then.

If there is anything that needs fixing up, its our forward line. again, we need another option, and as others have said, someone who can be that 2nd ruck. Stanley or Archer? or even Walsh? who knows. only one way to find out.

INS: Stanley/Archer, Walsh
OUTS: Polo, Ray

FB: Baker Dawson Simpkin
HB: Gilbert Walsh Gwilt
C: Montagna Fisher Dal Santo
HF: Jones Riewoldt Steven
FF: Siposs Stanley/Archer Milne
Fol: McEvoy Goddard Armitage
Int: Peake Dempster Schneider (Ledger)

 

[krusden]

so u want to drop him? he is out of form, but he was thrown to the wolves a bit against cloke. i think with fisher going into the midfield and blake injured, walsh should come in as our second big defender.

yes, I do.

He is horribly out of form.

I'd drop him this week and bring in walsh against the dogs and leave him in the twos until round 15 or 16 and see how tom goes. Dawson may have been "thrown to the wolves" against cloke but after this week he will be having to stand Podsiadly for the cats before the bye. The way dawson is playing he is really looking out of form and should be rested for a week or two.

 

[saber_32au]

I would love to see Archer get a run. Reports are he played well in the VFL as a ruckmen and as a forward. Can he kick straight?
Stanley (from what I’ve read) isn’t playing well enough to justify a spot in the team...hence why I’d put Archer in.
Plus he’d be our other big forward, which we desperately need...

As for Dawson. Tough call. He’s a much maligned player by the supporters...
Against Cloke, one on one, he didn’t really stand a change. He isn’t strong enough to take Cloke on one on one.

This begs the question: Where was the support? Why wasn’t someone else in the back line helping him out when needed? If its good enough for Tarrant/Obrien/Maxwell to run of their direct opponent spoil roo when in a marking contest, surely the same attention should have been paid to Cloke/Dawes???

Should Walsh replace Dawson? Tough call, but I would be inclined to give him a go. This week we’re playing the bulldogs, with Hall the only big powerful forward.
This I feel is the perfect opportunity to blood Walsh. From all reports Walsh is a big bloke, but on paper so is Dawson...

Dawson: 195cm, 95kg vs Walsh 195cm 97kg...(off the top of my head). Yet Dawson appears as if he doesn’t hit the gym...

So for me:

OUT: Polo, Dawson

IN: Archer, Walsh

 

[krusden]

As for Dawson. Tough call. He’s a much maligned player by the supporters...
Against Cloke, one on one, he didn’t really stand a change. He isn’t strong enough to take Cloke on one on one.

Dawson is maligned, however this year he looks slow and ineffectual.
The issue is that over the next few weeks we have sides without power forwards that would look good for dawson (including a hall-less dogs) but we still have to play geelong, the crows and the filth again this season with their power forwards that have cut him up.

I see a role for dawson, but it would be in the "loose man in defence role" played by maxwell and tom harley.
He is good enough to play this role perhaps but NOT as a full back against the big boys and at the moment he is struggling maybe even he's injured but he looks "off" for whatever reason.

 

[SAINTsincebirth]

I would love to see Archer get a run. Reports are he played well in the VFL as a ruckmen and as a forward. Can he kick straight?
Stanley (from what I’ve read) isn’t playing well enough to justify a spot in the team...hence why I’d put Archer in.
Plus he’d be our other big forward, which we desperately need...

As for Dawson. Tough call. He’s a much maligned player by the supporters...
Against Cloke, one on one, he didn’t really stand a change. He isn’t strong enough to take Cloke on one on one.

This begs the question: Where was the support? Why wasn’t someone else in the back line helping him out when needed? If its good enough for Tarrant/Obrien/Maxwell to run of their direct opponent spoil roo when in a marking contest, surely the same attention should have been paid to Cloke/Dawes???

Should Walsh replace Dawson? Tough call, but I would be inclined to give him a go. This week we’re playing the bulldogs, with Hall the only big powerful forward.
This I feel is the perfect opportunity to blood Walsh. From all reports Walsh is a big bloke, but on paper so is Dawson...

Dawson: 195cm, 95kg vs Walsh 195cm 97kg...(off the top of my head). Yet Dawson appears as if he doesn’t hit the gym...

So for me:

OUT: Polo, Dawson

IN: Archer, Walsh

these are good changes!!!!! we lacked a big bodied target against the scum. at least when they try to spoil, they would have earned it against archer.

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Not sure if we should be taking out one of our inside mids and a defender who does okay on not-massive Forwards, to replace them with massive units...against the Dogs.

Admittedly I like those changes but I can't really see it happening.

I don't care if we're not gonna get anywhere in finals (much less make it) this year. But I want to see a massive effort this week, and if we don't put the Dogs away I think we're in for a long year.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I dont mind the sugessted changes. But at the same time I dont think the Saints should become a revolving door where players are dropped randomly after one poor game.

Overall Polo has been more than useful in a team lacking Lenny Hayes, and Dawson's form has been pretty good so far.

I'd love Walsh to have a crack, but with Simpkin having his turn, I think it will need to wait.
I dont think any of our mids have been consistantly poor in the manner that McQualter and Gram were.
Maybe we put Ledger in the team and Polo or Peake as sub.
Maybe drop Baker ( is there really someone we need him to tag at Footscray ) and bring in Archer.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

I'm not getting all the Baker hate. He was still very serviceable last week and continues to back into packs and did so whilst taking some very good marks.

Doubtful Hall will play, so no point bringing Walsh in on the notion that he takes the bigger forwards.

Polo's poor decision making stood out on Sat night I thought, but I think he's still worthy of another week.

If Joey doesn't come up, I'd bring Gram in, otherwise I'm happy to keep the same side because no one is yet worthy of the 2nd tall forward spot.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I'm not getting all the Baker hate. He was still very serviceable last week and continues to back into packs and did so whilst taking some very good marks.

Doubtful Hall will play, so no point bringing Walsh in on the notion that he takes the bigger forwards.

Polo's poor decision making stood out on Sat night I thought, but I think he's still worthy of another week.

If Joey doesn't come up, I'd bring Gram in, otherwise I'm happy to keep the same side because no one is yet worthy of the 2nd tall forward spot.

I'm no Baker hater, and I dont get the hate either. I just dont like having too many taggers in the team at once and I generally prefer Dempster, but not always.

I'd like to see.

Gwilt, Dawson, Simpkin
DalSanto, Fisher, Dempster
Steven, Gilbert, Montagna
Siposs, Polo, Riewoldt
Milne, Archer, Schneider

Armitage, McEvoy, Jones

Ledger, BJ, Ray - Sub- Peake.

If Simpkin is in fact struggling to run out the game, I guess BJ or Gilbert has to go back there when he's subbed off. Meanwhile they can be more damaging playing forward. Problem could be if both Ledger and Simpkin struggle, I guess you keep Ledger on and rotate him a lot.

 

[stkildathunda]

I'm no Baker hater, and I dont get the hate either. I just dont like having too many taggers in the team at once and I generally prefer Dempster, but not always.

I'd like to see.

Gwilt, Dawson, Simpkin
DalSanto, Fisher, Dempster
Steven, Gilbert, Montagna
Siposs, Polo, Riewoldt
Milne, Archer, Schneider

Armitage, McEvoy, Jones

Ledger, BJ, Ray - Sub- Peake.

If Simpkin is in fact struggling to run out the game, I guess BJ or Gilbert has to go back there when he's subbed off. Meanwhile they can be more damaging playing forward. Problem could be if both Ledger and Simpkin struggle, I guess you keep Ledger on and rotate him a lot.

Im not a Bakes hater, but as you said dont like all the taggers and still dont believe we can have both Dempster & Baker in the same side, and Demps hasnt put a foot wrong all year and been amongst our best a fair few times recently... Thats my reasoning to having Bakes come out of the side and when its clear as day we need another forward he just seems the logical choice imo

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

I'm no Baker hater, and I dont get the hate either. I just dont like having too many taggers in the team at once and I generally prefer Dempster, but not always.

He's not tagging though. He's playing as a small defender. Still got the disputed ball.

 

[stkildathunda]

He's not tagging though. He's playing as a small defender. Still got the disputed ball.

More the fact he plays a negative style of game which we have enough off for mine. We need to be more attacking for the entire game and not fall into the old style of shut down football as it wont get you anywhere these days

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

More the fact he plays a negative style of game which we have enough off for mine. We need to be more attacking for the entire game and not fall into the old style of shut down football as it wont get you anywhere these days

I agree on the attacking part, but we do need some balance. No point upping our scoring by 4 goals a game if we're going to let an extra 4 in the other way. It's all balance. Maybe he needs his undercut back?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

He's not tagging though. He's playing as a small defender. Still got the disputed ball.

True. Baker wasnt an easy choice.
Baker was 4th ( behind Dawson - air - Simpkin and McEvoy for 1%ers )
Won a contested mark ( true of only seven of our players )
Had 80% disposal efficiency.
4 of his ten disposals were contested, so he didnt get a HUGE amount of the disputed ball if we go by the official stats.

Based on the single game maybe Polo or Ray or Schneider deserve to be dropped more, but I see them as more versatile in a midfield role than Baker. Bugger it drop Polo and bring in Smith as well.

Wow just noticed Jack Steven got a whopping 13 contested disposals.
Armitage didnt get much of the ball, but 9 of his 11 were contested, as were 7 of Ledger's 10. - ROSS PLAY LEDGEND ,, I mean LEDGER FOR THE WHOLE GAME. I want to see him get 30 disposals with 21 contested.

They need to work on cleaning up their disposals, ( hard I know ) and the receivers, Farren Ray, BJ etc need to be better with it when they get it.

Armo got no marks for the entire game, I know he's next to the ball a lot, but maybe he's crap at finding space.

 

[stkildathunda]

Won a contested mark ( true of only seven of our players )
Had 80% disposal efficiency.

mmm BJ went at 58% so maybe we should let him have a spell

 

[Persevering Saint]

In: Archer, Walsh
Out: Baker, Dawson

Dawson out because of form - there are few things he can do that Walsh can't, and there's plenty Walsh can do that Dawson can't. Bakes is only taken out because of team balance, because we NEED a second ruck/tall forward.

 

[Axcellence]

Probably the only saints game in the year I don't watch. Still scarred from the snoozefest last year.

 

[Falchoon]

I wouldn't mind seeing Baker try to play a bit of a Hamill role up forward.


BFGS play Tommy Walsh.

 

[kitchendweller]

Reckon Baker's been useless all year. Had a servicable game for his 200th. Should be left at that.
I used to love him but the poor bastard has been cursed by injury and the MRP.
Dawson is our best genuine defender, yeah serious. I think he works hard and bleeds almost as much as one MH used to. Should not be dropped.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

I wouldn't mind seeing Baker try to play a bit of a Hamill role up forward.


BFGS play Tommy Walsh.

I remember our game against Melb, Rnd 1, 2007 and Rossy's first game as coach. The Baker dog had 2 sausages before half time and I thought what have we found here?! Could be worth a shot, but we're still lacking a small defender. Dempster has been spending the majority of his time in the centre square. Does Alias take the small defender spot?

 

[Kozivan]

Siposs needs a rest, very good when he gets the ball but doesn't get it enough and often times his jumps surprisingly badly. Hpwever we are up against the dogs and this could be his big chance to run their inexperienced defence + lake around and snatch 3 or 4.

Ledger should start, based on the quarter of football he produced.
Dawson should stay, get some confidence up against the non existent forward line of the dogs.

Archer IN seems a good one. He is more of a forward than a ruckman but is much more of a ruckman than gwilt! and we saw against richmond that Darch can take a grab - plonk him at FF and see how the dogs defence struggles. Failing this, it could be a good game for Roo to go FF... if he gets tripple teamed siposs, milne, archer off CHF, schnieder, peake (knows how to find space), gilbo will tear them to shreds.

Basically I will be super disappointed if we lose this week. We should be able to win it with the team we put on the park on Saturday night but there are some improvements that could be made to maximise on the potential percentage booster this game could be.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

Basically I will be super disappointed if we lose this week. We should be able to win it with the team we put on the park on Saturday night but there are some improvements that could be made to maximise on the potential percentage booster this game could be.

Famous last words, they will come out smoking after their display last week, no game should ever be looked at as a precentage booster, you will only look like a fool if you lose.

From what I have seen at VFL level, only two who desreve a game are Walsh and Raph, have been very good every week. Surely we can't send Tommy back to Ireland without giving him 6-8 weeks to show what he has.