Scape Goat The Cam Guthrie Echo Chamber

[Vdubs]

This truly is an echo chamber of a thread.
The big issue here is the amplification of any poor game, particularly when we lose. I understand you are all grumpier, but there are never any supportive posts when he does play well, which is not as rare as is depicted here.
Going on about 11 possessions as a mid.. was he even a mid all day?
Possessions were not our issue overall, not every player can get them

 

[CatFan79]

The big issue here is the amplification of any poor game, particularly when we lose. I understand you are all grumpier, but there are never any supportive posts when he does play well, which is not as rare as is depicted here.

He only plays well when our opposition are bad, when others bring him into the game, when he can get space and receive the ball.

Guthrie is a Grade-A passenger. He defines the term. He has ZERO influence on the outcome of any game.

 

[patmatcat]

11 Touches ... 14... 18 ... 14 ... As a midfielder ....

This is a total joke.

 

[tomthabuddah1]

11 Touches ... 14... 18 ... 14 ... As a midfielder ....

This is a total joke.

Please tell me more

 

[Ray Donovan]

Not disputing he's more than competent in heavy traffic. In fact one of my lasting memories from last night happened in the last quarter. A high ball to the forward half, Sparkle (suck it up Spazz) positioning himself front and square, reading the ball off hands perfectly, clean hands, spinning onto his right foot and snagging a goal. My point was that players with burst away speed aren't generally pigeon holed as inside players. Usually the opposite.

Constable is a ball magnet but in today's game where quick spread is super important you just can't afford to have too many who don't posses that capacity. I think that's held him back. Frankly, I don't think we'd lose too much if he was given a run in preference to Guthrie or Menegola this week.

Geelong's midfield is slow, but I think a lot of constable not getting games probably revolves around personnel and has nothing to do with spread.

Dangerfield, Kelly, J.Selwood all like to play as an inside mid. So unless the coach is genuinely willing to pull the reigns in on a Joel Selwood in the midfield constable probably won't play.

To be completely honest I would of loved to see Joel Selwood play a bit more footy of half back this season because I think it could really extend his career like a Matt Boyd.

Just gives some options and a good decision maker down back. And allows another constable, parfitt type to suck up midfield minutes. And you still have him to break glass in emergency so to speak

 

[CatFan79]

I would of loved to see Joel Selwood play a bit more footy of half back this season

His kicking skills are questionable, especially of recent and what's he like actually defending someone?

As great a midfielder he's been Joel's not versatile, might be midfield or retirement.

 

[Ray Donovan]

His kicking skills are questionable, especially of recent and what's he like actually defending someone?

As great a midfielder he's been Joel's not versatile, might be midfield or retirement.

You just don't think he is versatile. His kicking is fine there is a massive difference with all possessions under pressure compared to half back.

Defending someone? You talk like it's a foreign game he has not been playing all his life. People over react to positional changes and star talent.

We see it all the time different players when they age slot into different roles. Imagine Joel Selwood off half back it makes me salivate like ablett in the forward line

 

[PatrickBateman]

Please tell me more

Cam Guthrie's last 9 games...

- Over 20 or more touches just twice (22,24)
- Under 15 touches 5 of the 9! WTF?


+ 30+ touches just 4 times in 158 games. Hasn't had one since 2016.... when he had 1.

Full time midfield. Go find another midfielder in any of the other 17 sides who can top this.

Truly a special brand of incompetence, and charity by the GFC.

 

[tomthabuddah1]

Cam Guthrie's last 9 games...

- Over 20 or more touches just twice (22,24)
- Under 15 touches 5 of the 9! WTF?


+ 30+ touches just 4 times in 158 games. Hasn't had one since 2016.... when he had 1.

Full time midfield. Go find another midfielder in any of the other 17 sides who can top this.

Truly a special brand of incompetence, and charity by the GFC.

Patrick - if anything you are consistent. That's something to be respected.

 

[cats_09]

Cam Guthrie's last 9 games...

- Over 20 or more touches just twice (22,24)
- Under 15 touches 5 of the 9! WTF?


+ 30+ touches just 4 times in 158 games. Hasn't had one since 2016.... when he had 1.

Full time midfield. Go find another midfielder in any of the other 17 sides who can top this.

Truly a special brand of incompetence, and charity by the GFC.

Scott Selwood hasn't had a 30 disposal game while wearing Geelong colours.

His last 30 disposal game was Round 23 of the 2013 season

He's also only had 12 games with 30+ disposals over his 169 game career and all those games came in the 2012 & 2013 seasons when playing for WCE.

If Guthrie goes all maniac & gets 30+ disposals in his next 11 games, he will end up with more 30+ disposal games from the same number of matches as Scooter

 

[PatrickBateman]

If Guthrie goes all maniac & gets 30+ disposals in his next 11 games, he will end up with more 30+ disposal games from the same number of matches as Scooter

Won't happen.

How many times has Scott Selwood been dropped while in Cats colours? How many times has Guthrie been dropped while SS has been at Geelong? I'd say zero. I've never seen such a protected species, never since watching this club play.

 

[PatrickBateman]

Patrick - if anything you are consistent. That's something to be respected.

Always right?

 

[tomthabuddah1]

Always right?

Always humourous. Most see Guthrie as mid to low range player, could he be improved yes, but far from our main issues. So the focus on him seems a little disproportionate. Would I love to upgrade him - yes probably.

 

[PatrickBateman]

could he be improved yes

Right, so why is there:

A - been no improvement in him as a player since 2016, in fact I'd say he's gotten worse
B - been no move to put him back to the VFL to have him work on his game to address 'A'?

Guthrie is a low range player, no question.

The guy doesn't stop anyone, he's not a genuine tagger at all. His opponent will out possession and influence him literally every single game.

He's hardly effective in a positive sense either, so rarely. Doesn't get enough of it for a start, and relies too heavily on others to have an impact himself. Plus he's soft. I see why an Atkins type gets games with low possession count, he's very, very hard around the contest, and tackles fiercely. Guthrie does neither.

The GFC just wants to play him, they've tried him everywhere to keep him in the side, he will simply continue to get a pass while others around him get dropped for performances that measure up well in comparison. He's the charity case.

Ask yourself, who else would be kept in the side following the stats he's put out in the last 9 games as a midfielder (I mentioned above)? Less than 15 touches in 5 of his last 9 games?? Just embarrassing... I wonder if he truly believes he belongs there, which could be why he performs the way he does, lack of confidence.

 

[Benny78]

Really need him out and Menegola back in.

Why was Menegola only in the team for 2 games?

 

[OddYears]

Always humourous. Most see Guthrie as mid to low range player, could he be improved yes, but far from our main issues. So the focus on him seems a little disproportionate. Would I love to upgrade him - yes probably.

In the Carlton thread you call Scooter and Menegola passengers but you're happy with Guthrie which is interesting. I think Midfield is one of our main issues and why Guthrie shouldn't be played there. It's a wasted spot for someone that gets so little of the ball and has no real influence on the game.

 

[cats_09]

Really need him out and Menegola back in.

Why was Menegola only in the team for 2 games?

Because he was pretty poor against North

In the 3rd quarter he started in our forward 50 & was opposed to Thompson. The first couple of times the ball was kicked in long to Hawkins in a 1-on-1, Menegola refused to even put a body on Thompson & instead he waned to get to the front of the contest for a potential loose ball. There was no loose ball as Thompson drifted in to take essentially an uncontested mark - the 3rd time things were playing out the same is when Menegola came in late, got a hand on Thompson & the result was Thompson going off for the match under a potential concussion; but before that happened, he had already taken 5 interecept marks which was his season high.

Menegola looked really off the pace against North & seemed to be failing to do basic team first things - so maybe it was back to the VFL to find some form & touch (which he was clearly going to do, he is a class above VFL but looks off pace at AFL since returning from injury) but maybe also to do the team things rather than just boosting his own numbers

 

[Larry Donohue]

Trade Guthrie for Steven and I'd be a very happy Chappy
Move him on and the balance in our side would be automatically resolved
Charlie would get games, hopefully Cockatoo back, Narkle has neat skills. These kids are being kept out by a player who constantly gives up the ball.
Charlie played only a few games and never did that. He has courage and composure. Get him in for everyone's sake
I remember this forum discussing in the first 8 games how we'd got the right balance and the kids were excelling
Why did that change
Is it because Guthrie and Blicavs are close mates?
Move him on and this issue stops being ever present
Guthrie for Steven straight swap please

 

[Down at K Park]

Trade Guthrie for Steven and I'd be a very happy Chappy
Move him on and the balance in our side would be automatically resolved
Charlie would get games, hopefully Cockatoo back, Narkle has neat skills. These kids are being kept out by a player who constantly gives up the ball.
Charlie played only a few games and never did that. He has courage and composure. Get him in for everyone's sake
I remember this forum discussing in the first 8 games how we'd got the right balance and the kids were excelling
Why did that change
Is it because Guthrie and Blicavs are close mates?
Move him on and this issue stops being ever present
Guthrie for Steven straight swap please

I actually wouldn't mind that. Even if steven doesn't do much it's still more than guthrie provides.

 

[cynical]

Guthrie has some skills but as a pure outside mid they aren't really enough to make up for his limited inside game. The game style doesn't help him and he doesn't seem to break the lines as much as he used to.

He and Menegola should have been moved on last year when they had some value.

As for trading him for Steven, no thanks. Guthrie should be worth a mid 40's pick while Steven mid 60's. Need to turn him into a kid not another geriatric.

 

[thecatattack]

Guthrie has some skills but as a pure outside mid they aren't really enough to make up for his limited inside game. The game style doesn't help him and he doesn't seem to break the lines as much as he used to.

He and Menegola should have been moved on last year when they had some value.

As for trading him for Steven, no thanks. Guthrie should be worth a mid 40's pick while Steven mid 60's. Need to turn him into a kid not another geriatric.

Why Menegola? He was looking great this year and then got injured.

 

[cynical]

Why Menegola? He was looking great this year and then got injured.

He is terrible under pressure. (makes poor decisions and his disposal is real bad when rushed)

If it wasn't for his size and superior endurance he wouldn't get a game.

I think he has already reached his peak and its not that good.

 

[Down at K Park]

Why Menegola? He was looking great this year and then got injured.

Not really. Form was pretty average before he got injured. I do recall a few people wanting him dropped.

 

[thecatattack]

Not really. Form was pretty average before he got injured. I do recall a few people wanting him dropped.

Anyone asking him to be dropped before his injury has NFI tbh.

He has 1 bad game, other than that he was to really good.

 

[PatrickBateman]

Why Menegola? He was looking great this year and then got injured.

Sure.

Note, guys like Menegola play one average / poor game and are straight back to the VFL. No chances.

Guthrie on the other hand? Well, the bar is at a completely different level. Completely protected. He has played several worse games this year compared with Menegola's game V the Roos, just gets a free pass every time.

If you compare Guthrie V Menegola statistically, you'll see who has been more effective and valuable to the team. Especially since Menegola has been at the club, Guthrie has been rubbish.

Career averages below... Ohhhhh, poor old Cam.

Cameron Guthrie and Sam Menegola AFL Stats Comparison

Cameron Guthrie and Sam Menegola AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

I wish Guthrie's meters gained was on there, his is pathetic, just embarrassingly pathetic. For a guy who's supposed to be known to break the lines too, etc. Lol.