The delisting of Menzel shows what a bad state our game is in

[Kwality]

If you as a WCE supporter are so worried about our forward stocks, maybe you should have traded Josh Kennedy or Jack Darling to us for Tim Kelly.

On the right track Cat, toss in the Hawk, Simmo would up his work rate ....

 

[PP34]

May as well have made Ablett retire.

Yes Menzel was weak defensively (as is Ablett) but at least Menzel is a goal scoring machine.

Geelong is run by humpty dumpty morons.

Menzel is not a goal machine.

 

[Quivorir]

Every North supporter I know really likes Kayne Turner?

What have you got against him?

I don't buy into his defensive pressure rhetoric. The guy ways 20 kilos, he lays a bump he ends up on the ground whilst the player keeps on running, his tackles are meh and he brings almost nothing offensively. Just a passenger on game day and I'd take anyone in the comp over him.

 

[PP34]

Also does anyone else find it absurd they’re being bashed for delisting Menzel now?

They could have done it years ago but they persisted with him even after so many knee injuries. They don’t really owe him anything.

 

[Seeds]

Would have been the only time he chased all game

Lol. Some people really want to categorize the world into black or white.

 

[Seeds]

Also does anyone else find it absurd they’re being bashed for delisting Menzel now?

They could have done it years ago but they persisted with him even after so many knee injuries. They don’t really owe him anything.

They owe their fans to put the best side together. Was not dropped once all season. Plenty of others were and multiple times too and yet they stay on the list.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Jeff Hogg


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Didn't he end up fb at Fitzroy? Was a sad ending.

 

[Senor Ed]

Geelong should be ashamed of themselves for throwing him on the scrapheap, its not like he was the only one way runner there with no defensive game.

Nathan Freeman board.

 

[Man0gwaR74]

5 knee reconstructions.

^Fixed

 

[Dez!]

I for one find it rather sad that a player with as much talent as Menzel has gets delisted.

Let’s face it, he is one of the most exciting players with the ball in hand in the competition and was delisted because he doesn’t do what is required of modern day medium to small forwards - tackling and applying pressure.

The Richmond team is a good example of this - a group of forwards who excel at tackling and applying pressure that don’t have a lot of talent.

10-20 years ago Menzel would be an absolute star but these days, there’s no room for talent, just really fit players who can run and chase all day.

If he put in even slight effort defensively he wouldn't have gotten delisted. Unless he has the ball he's essentially a witches hat, he's lazy.

 

[kickazz]

AFL isn't like that though.

AFL you need all skill requirements.

It's going the way of NBA with positionless basketball which I don't think is bad tbh

I suppose that's my point, I like a sport with a diversity of specialised skills.

Also does anyone else find it absurd they’re being bashed for delisting Menzel now?

They could have done it years ago but they persisted with him even after so many knee injuries. They don’t really owe him anything.

It's not about owing though, it's about what they could get out of him, which recent stats showed was pretty good, especially last year.

A couple of poor finals but geez not the only cat in that boat.

 

[Aeglos]

I for one find it rather sad that a player with as much talent as Menzel has gets delisted.

Let’s face it, he is one of the most exciting players with the ball in hand in the competition and was delisted because he doesn’t do what is required of modern day medium to small forwards - tackling and applying pressure.

The Richmond team is a good example of this - a group of forwards who excel at tackling and applying pressure that don’t have a lot of talent.

10-20 years ago Menzel would be an absolute star but these days, there’s no room for talent, just really fit players who can run and chase all day.

Nek minnit Damian Cupido redrafted

 

[TheFourPillars]

Geelong is run by humpty dumpty morons. Hawthorn would of never won the 2013 grand final if those humpty dumpty morons werent there so you should be greatful.

If Shaun Burgoyne was still playing for Port Adelaide

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

What happened with his injection - anything specific - or was it just that his form went south following a particular injection, and his lack of form was consequently put down to this injection? Just curious.

Hit the wrong spot, got infected, missed half the season when he was flying. Could barely stand up and walk at it's worst.

It's for that reason alone, imo, he was worth at least one more season. Have a big a preseason as possible and see If he couldn't get a good run at it.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

At 190cm / 90kg Menzel is a 'tweener in modern footy. A rich man's Ben McKinley.

In the 90s he would've been a star, but in the 90s he would've been a key forward. Gary Ablett Sr kicked 100+ 3 years in a row and didn't tackle. Tony Modra was 188cm and had fewer tackles in his whole career than renowned pressure forward (ha) Mark LeCras had this season.

His lack of defensive pressure is well documented (1 tackle, 1 1%er a game) but he also doesn't do that much offensively. He's great to watch when he has he ball but 11 touches, 1-2 goals, 2 inside 50s a game isn't really what you want from a bloke that only runs one way. If he could get involved in the game more he'd be a valuable player. Jamie Cripps (who is excellent defensively) was in the same boat, just hovering around 10-11 disposals a game and kicking a goal or two most weeks. He now pushes up the ground more and this year got 16 touches and 3.5 inside 50s a game to go with his 38 goals.

He kick started a few games for Geelong in the back half of the season with his vision and disposal. The problem is he would then disappear late and his clever earlier work would be forgotten.

 

[Man0gwaR74]

Spot on.
Anyone who has read the advice given to Willie Rioli by Cyril included fitness & forward pressure, & he's come from a long way back - whether Menzels body allows him to meet the demands of todays game, seems the Cats think no more.

Incorrect, it not the work ethic< Menzel gets muscled out of the contest too easily to go against Key defenders and not fast enough to make it a contest against small defenders!

 

[BruceTempany14]

Didn't he end up fb at Fitzroy? Was a sad ending.

Yep , he was an absolute beacon of hope for us when we were seriously crAp. Had shocking hammies .


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[BF Tiger]

That's exactly the point. Four 1 goal a game forwards who tackle a lot.

When a key forward can get away with kicking two goals s game then I think small forwards can get away with one goal games as long as they do other things. Tackles are an easy measure but it’s more to do with pressure acts - tackle, corral, chase, run both ways and working a system. To say that such players are not talented is unfair when maybe if they were selfish and just hung around close to goals they’d be kicking multiples more regularly.

 

[Heaps of fun]

When a key forward can get away with kicking two goals s game then I think small forwards can get away with one goal games as long as they do other things. Tackles are an easy measure but it’s more to do with pressure acts - tackle, corral, chase, run both ways and working a system. To say that such players are not talented is unfair when maybe if they were selfish and just hung around close to goals they’d be kicking multiples more regularly.

To say those players are not talented (especially Higgins, who is great with ball in hand) is unfair. To say that they are the sorts of players preferred over potentially more talented footballers/more prolific goalkickers because they provide excellent forward pressure isn't necessarily unfair though.

 

[Stumpy Pete]

All clubs will jump on the defensive pressure bandwagon and then an “innovative” coach will win the flag with a lead out forward who can kick goals from 60 and then we will also be talking about how the game is “changing”.

Regards

S. Pete

 

[Coaster2012]

I would suggest you re watch the Grand Final if you are suggesting our game is in a bad state. I had foreign friends in town that had never seen a game, and afterwards they were like that was the best damn sport game I have ever seen.

 

[Catters 070911]

Menzel is not a goal machine.

If Ablett was played forward for the entire season, and had minimal time in the midfield, Ablett would kick as many goals as Menzel did.

 

[AFDogs]

Just a passenger on game day and I'd take anyone in the comp over him.

So you legitimately think he's the worst player in the competition then?

Not attacking, genuinely curious here.

 

[Catters 070911]

People who are bagging the sacking of Menzel weren't crying when we traded out Travis Varcoe.

Many here wanted Varcoe gone from Geelong, called him a spud, and blamed him for us missing the 2013 GF, and seemed to forget his efforts in the 2011 GF, and his pivotal role of handballing to Chapman for THAT goal in the 2009 GF.

Varcoe was a tackling machine, and put forward pressure on, and he has carried that, and even improved, at Collingwood.

Where were many of you crying then, when we traded out a tackling machine who kicked goals AND put on forward pressure, but now you all moan about getting rid of a guy with dodgy knees and who doesn't apply forward pressure.

 

[Quivorir]

So you legitimately think he's the worst player in the competition then?

Not attacking, genuinely curious here.

Fair comment. Nah I don't believe that. Just along with what the OP is saying. Menzel was a 2 goal a game forward and got delisted. Turner is a .73 goal a game forward with this so called great defensive pressure and plays every game because of it. I'd take a goal kicking forward any day of the week.