The delisting of Menzel shows what a bad state our game is in

[Guardian Hawk]

He was a legitimate liability in their final. He doesn’t chase, didn’t lead and was relying purely on the ball coming in quick off a turnover and therefore being in an advantageous position.

Sorry but I just don’t agree at all with this having to do with the state of the game. His injuries have made him a very one dimensional player. He can take marks and kick goals but if you put proper time into him he can be shut out of a game rather easily. He isn’t going to work hard to beat his man so he’s basically a passenger out there.

He basically plays like a lazy full forward except he doesn’t have the height or weight to be a constant problem. He’s flawed like numerous other footballers who get the chop. Don’t see anyone crying when some backmen gets the chop because he can’t intercept mark.

I agree that he’s talented but talent only gets you so far in any sport. Same with goals. Unless you’re kicking big bags a couple of goals a game barely has an impact compared to what other more rounded players can do.

I think you and many others are underestimating him and the value of players that can consistently kick goals.

Before the Geelong medical team made their rather large stuff up this year, Menzel had:

15 touches, 4.2 and a goal assist in a 3 point win in Round 1. (was Geelong's best forward IMO)
17 touches, 4.1 and 3 goal assists in Round 2. (was Geelong's best forward IMO)
8 touches and a goal against eventual premiers in Round 3
16 touches, 5 goals 3 and 3 Brownlow votes in Round 4 (Geelong's best forward IMO)
13 touches, 1 goal and 2 assists in Round 5.

At that point of the season, Menzel was 2nd in Geelong's B&F (ahead of all fwds and all mids), top 3 in the Coleman (maybe leading, can't remember?) and mentioned in every side posted in the AA thread on Bigfooty.

People (including you) say "only a couple of goals a game" not realising how few players manage that. In fact, half the teams in the competition don't have a single player on their list that averaged as many goals as Menzel did in 2018 (and Menzel was a top 20 goalkicker in the comp in 2017 despite missing games).
Even his assists are comparable to other forwards.

Not saying he is a superstar but surely with 42 spots on a list and the fact that he is best 22 whenever fit (and Geelong have just traded for an inferior player) he could have been kept on (particularly in place of guys who look like they may never play a game).

Just my 2c

 

[W.C. Fry]

Only if Menzal doesn't get picked up by another club then you can say the game is in a bad state.

If he does get picked up, is injury free and still fails you can say he is in a bad state.

If he gets picked up, has injuries, unfortunately injury claims another career.

If he does get picked up, is injury free and does well you can say Geelong's list management is in a bad state.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I think it says more about how clueless and one dimensional Chris Scott is than anything else.

 

[Guardian Hawk]

People who are bagging the sacking of Menzel weren't crying when we traded out Travis Varcoe.

Many here wanted Varcoe gone from Geelong, called him a spud, and blamed him for us missing the 2013 GF, and seemed to forget his efforts in the 2011 GF, and his pivotal role of handballing to Chapman for THAT goal in the 2009 GF.

Varcoe was a tackling machine, and put forward pressure on, and he has carried that, and even improved, at Collingwood.

Where were many of you crying then, when we traded out a tackling machine who kicked goals AND put on forward pressure, but now you all moan about getting rid of a guy with dodgy knees and who doesn't apply forward pressure.

If you were trading Menzel this would not be a thread. The fact that he is delisted that has surprised some (which would have been the case had you delisted Varcoe).

 

[Man0gwaR74]

If he put in even slight effort defensively he wouldn't have gotten delisted. Unless he has the ball he's essentially a witches hat, he's lazy.

Gotta have the speed to be able to make it to the contest to be able to put in a defensive effort! He may have been lacking a bit of match fitness or due to managing his knees throughout the season but it's laughable to suggest that Dan Menzel's anywhere near lazy!

 

[dzussy]

He must have been asking for two years. If so then I dont blame Geelong for delisting him. With his history he had to expect a 1 year deal at best I would have thought. He may end up getting a go elsewhere, but on nothing more than 1 year I'd imagine. That is just a fact of life. Good player, he should be playing.

 

[faible]

They owe their fans to put the best side together. Was not dropped once all season. Plenty of others were and multiple times too and yet they stay on the list.

Neither was Goddard; but him being on the list and being better than the younger options meant he played ahead of them, to the detriment of the team in the long term. Getting rid of Goddard removes that temptation, as does delisting Menzel.

Geelong's forward-line wasn't particularly functional in 2018, so they need to look at changing things even if that means in the short term it looks like a bad decision on paper.

This also means Menzel can be picked up as a DFA so it may be something that benefits both parties.

 

[Man0gwaR74]

If Ablett was played forward for the entire season, and had minimal time in the midfield, Ablett would kick as many goals as Menzel did.

To kick goals you need midfield supply! It's like comparing apples and oranges!

 

[NoobPie]

Fasolo not getting game last season is another example.

No. Fasolo played one game in which he got injured.

Apart from that he was not worthy of getting a game. The players in our best forward line are all better footballers than Fasolo

 

[Mr_Moogle]

I agree with the OP's assesment about Menzel being delisted due to lack of tackling and defensive pressure but I don't understand how this reflects the "sad state of our game". Australian rules has always had varying game styles that come in and out of fashion. At the moment teams are trying to emulate the success Richmond have had. This will eventually evolve to something else and the cycle will continue.

 

[tunksy]

I for one find it rather sad that a player with as much talent as Menzel has gets delisted.

Let’s face it, he is one of the most exciting players with the ball in hand in the competition and was delisted because he doesn’t do what is required of modern day medium to small forwards - tackling and applying pressure.

The Richmond team is a good example of this - a group of forwards who excel at tackling and applying pressure that don’t have a lot of talent.

10-20 years ago Menzel would be an absolute star but these days, there’s no room for talent, just really fit players who can run and chase all day.

what a load of rubbish. what a stupid generalisation.

menzel got delisted because of his injury history. too much time on the sidelines.

 

[NoobPie]

but these days, there’s no room for talent, just really fit players who can run and chase all day.

Seriously, I don't know what game some people are watching but they aren't watching the same game as me

Who are people actually referring to when they make statements like this? Bare in mind that the statement implies most of the current players aren't "talented" footballers but instead are just endurance athletes running around a football field....but who?

This is a randomly selected Collingwood best 22 from the Collingwood page....

B: Brayden Maynard, Lynden Dunn, Tom Langdon
HB: Jeremy Howe, Darcy Moore, Jack Crisp
C: Steele Sidebottom, Scott Pendlebury, Taylor Adams
HF: Will Hoskin-Elliott, Brody Mihocek, Josh Thomas
F: Jamie Elliott, Mason Cox, Jordan De Goey
FOLL: Brodie Grundy, Dayne Beams, Adam Treloar
I/C: Daniel Wells, Jaidyn Stephenson, Tom Phillips, Tyson Goldsack

Apart from an asterix next to the 7 foot american, which of these players is not a "talented footballer" but is a "really fit player who can run and chase all day" ?


It's just nonsense.

 

[flyinghi64]

Many on here saying Menzel doesn't chase, no defensive pressure, lazy etc.
If this is basically what he has been instructed to do, be deepest fwd at all times, don't go to contests, stay on the outside as his manager has just pretty much said, is it his fault he is doing what is asked of him?

As a professional athlete who has got over the amount of cruel injuries as he has I would like to think he knew he had to prove himself to hold his spot knowing his career was in the balance.

So, if he was doing as instructed and playing as the coaches wanted then yes it is a bit of a sour delisting by Geelong.
But, if he was actually instructed to pressure, chase and tackle and decided to be "lazy" well Geelong had every right to delist.

All the 1 year, 2 year contract negotiations aside of course.

 

[Post padding]

Peter Daicos

Modra

 

[Xtreme]

Lazy Geelong player too scared to tackle and chase gets delisted

If it was based on that the only person left in at the club would be Chris Scott himself!

 

[Coach_Required]

If it was based on that the only person left in at the club would be Chris Scott himself!

It must be really hard for Geelong supporters to accept that their once successful club is fast becoming middle of the road. meh

 

[Man0gwaR74]

It must be really hard for Geelong supporters to accept that their once successful club is fast becoming middle of the road. meh

The Cats deserve HUUUUGE criticism for trading Caddy for next to nothing and rewarding mediocrity by signing Chris Scott and Cam Guthrie to long term contracts! Dan Menzel is being made a scapegoat!

 

[romeohwho]

It must be really hard for Geelong supporters to accept that their once successful club is fast becoming middle of the road. meh

Lol. Yep I am really in a state about it.

 

[Duskfire]

It must be really hard for Geelong supporters to accept that their once successful club is fast becoming middle of the road. meh

I am cool with the idea, I would love a massive rebuild and load up again in a few years. I’ve been expecting this for years and am surprised it has taken as long as it has - thought Geelong were shot after 2013.

They will do well next year though. It’s the proceeding years that will be the issue.

 

[Duskfire]

I think it says more about how clueless and one dimensional Chris Scott is than anything else.

Chris Scott is so clueless that when Menzel was shipping himself around that no one wanted him? Does that mean all coaches are clueless?

I hate that Menzel got delisted but no one wanted him and there’s obviously a reason for that beyond “Scott sucks.” Hopefully someone changes their mind and picks him up; would be great yo see him play again.

 

[PAFC_1870]

Couldn't agree more. I hope someone throws the guy a line.

I'd love if Port did... afterall we only shifted out a pretty hand goal sneak... ffs

 

[Del191229]

Should have changed his name by deed poll to Daniel Ablett and guaranteed himself another six or seven years.

 

[Nickoo]

Or what a bad state Menz’s body is in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Mr_Moogle]

I hope for his sake he doesn't end up at Adelaide. After seeing our fitness dept. ruin even the most durable players, I'd hate to see what they could do to Menzel. Dude would probably end up in a wheelchair or some shit.

 

[RedVest4]

Seriously, I don't know what game some people are watching but they aren't watching the same game as me

Who are people actually referring to when they make statements like this? Bare in mind that the statement implies most of the current players aren't "talented" footballers but instead are just endurance athletes running around a football field....but who?

This is a randomly selected Collingwood best 22 from the Collingwood page....

B: Brayden Maynard, Lynden Dunn, Tom Langdon
HB: Jeremy Howe, Darcy Moore, Jack Crisp
C: Steele Sidebottom, Scott Pendlebury, Taylor Adams
HF: Will Hoskin-Elliott, Brody Mihocek, Josh Thomas
F: Jamie Elliott, Mason Cox, Jordan De Goey
FOLL: Brodie Grundy, Dayne Beams, Adam Treloar
I/C: Daniel Wells, Jaidyn Stephenson, Tom Phillips, Tyson Goldsack

Apart from an asterix next to the 7 foot american, which of these players is not a "talented footballer" but is a "really fit player who can run and chase all day" ?


It's just nonsense.

Compared to sides from 20 years ago, only a handful of these players are talented. They’re all fitter and better runners though.