- Jun 10, 2014
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- AFL Club
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Defamation actions present a major expense to plaintiffs and also opens them up to hugely damaging testimony. It is not something anywhere near likely.
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News The Hawthorn Allegations
- Thread starter DinoSoar
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Defamation actions present a major expense to plaintiffs and also opens them up to hugely damaging testimony. It is not something anywhere near likely.
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jmac70
On the porch
How is she being inconsistent?
She has stated through her legal counsel why she is not comfortable to participate in the AFL inquiry.
She has every right to choose that path.
sr36
TheBrownDog
I don't think the system that she distrusts is the concept of a lawyer giving advice or speaking on her behalf. She's using a lawyer, but she's yet to use the legal system at all. I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't use a legal system at all and continues to play this out through the media.
Rather like Lumumba!
jmac70
On the porch
Nothing like Lumumba
sr36
TheBrownDog
Who knows what the accusers goals are, but if their goal is change within the AFL or society in general, the media route is more likely to be effective than a hearing aimed at determining guilt and a consequence for some individuals that will then wrap it up as an isolated incident.
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By-passing an investigation and going to the media is exactly what Lumumba did?
Let them do that if they want. Shake the trees and blow the wind about and let everyone know they're around. If they are going to avoid the official path make some noise on the side lines instead.
jmac70
On the porch
‘Amy’ participated in the club led inquiry. She told her truth.
She has expressed doubts about the independence of the AFL inquiry and the potential for her original testimony to be discredited. She has also questioned the timeline imposed by the AFL.
She has not campaigned through social media like Lumumba, simply expressing her doubts and choice not to participate through her legal counsel. Of course this has been reported through the media, as were Clarkson’s views on the veracity of the allegations.
The AFL will have a result within the timeline they have set, with or without all parties taking part.
The result is a foregone conclusion - as soon as the AFL stepped in it was a fait accompli for the respondents.
sr36
TheBrownDog
I think that's coming. This story went global immediately. But at the moment the finger is only pointing at three men. It's when the governing body is viewed as having acted ineffectively that these things really kick off. People talk about the AFL sweeping things under the carpet, but this story is too big. The coaches interests don't align with the AFL interests the way so many are assuming. At this stage, the best outcome for the AFL is a really negative finding against three rogue employees, so that they can deal with perceived racism effectively. The perception isn't going to go away from the findings of an inquiry that doesn't include the participants, so they're in a pretty shit spot unless there is participation, or others verify the stories.
JB1975
Brownlow Medallist
You don't have to be cynical to think that the first priority of the AFL is its brand.
Public relations is the overriding context, and I doubt that I'd want to speak of difficult things within such a framework, even if I accepted that the people in immediate control of the proceedings were independent.
Amy would reasonably think that she has nothing to gain and a lot to lose by participating.
Clarkson and co don't have that luxury, which is why the rest of us should see the process as some sort of reckoning, and certainly an opportunity for more clarity.
Public relations is the overriding context, and I doubt that I'd want to speak of difficult things within such a framework, even if I accepted that the people in immediate control of the proceedings were independent.
Amy would reasonably think that she has nothing to gain and a lot to lose by participating.
Clarkson and co don't have that luxury, which is why the rest of us should see the process as some sort of reckoning, and certainly an opportunity for more clarity.
Whatever the situation for those within the AFL that were involved the AFL's concern is the AFL's interests so the outcome will be exactly that which the AFL is most comfortable with.
As for the longer term consequences who can tell, first Collingwood and now Hawthorn.
Anyone that thinks this is the final chapter of this saga is very credulous indeed.
sr36
TheBrownDog
This one is out of their control.
We couldn't put the HL story to bed. Even with his unclear claims that were far less titillating, and with an initially compliant media who discredited him, it just kept coming back again and again.
They will certainly try but I think we are agreed that in the end genuine grass roots change will happen.
It's just a question of how long it will take.
With the AFL stepping in it is no longer about Hawthorn or Collingwood - it's about the culture of the AFL and lack of transparency - will certainly be interesting to watch it unfold.
I think it partially depends on the skeletons being kept in club cupboards. Some clubs may have genuinely coped well with integrating indigenous players. Perhaps the lack of transparency extends to the good as well as bad clubs. Someone must be doing something right and eventually become the best practice example to other clubs
jmac70
On the porch
Clarkson’s comment that there is a wider context to the allegations is interesting.
I wonder what he is alluding to?
I wonder what he is alluding to?
sr36
TheBrownDog
I wouldn't read anything into it, other than he's going to challenge the stories in some way. He'd have been advised to not try to publicly discredit the players or partners, because that plays really badly, so he wouldn't say if his defence was going to be, it's all untrue.
Because it makes it look opportunistic. And gives less credibility to what is in her statement of truth.
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jmac70
On the porch
To you maybe, not to me.
- Mar 16, 2022
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Having North and Brisbane destabilised by losing quality coaches isn’t in the best interest of the AFL
jmac70
On the porch
From the former Hawthorn players and families.
“You have asked us to participate in the AFL’s investigation into allegations of racism at the Hawthorn Football Club. We have reservations about that process and share many of the concerns expressed by Amy**. However, we also want to make sure our experiences will never be repeated and that is why we have taken our time to carefully consider our position.
We do want to tell our truths to a panel of independent investigators in a culturally safe environment.
But the issue of racism in the AFL cannot be dealt with by a narrowly targeted investigation on a club-by-club, or crisis-by-crisis, basis.
That may protect the AFL’s image and reputation in the short term, but it does not address our concerns, which won’t go away with a limited investigation of Hawthorn.
We want the AFL to take a good hard look at itself and how it has dealt with racism in the past. Not because we want to trawl over a 100 years of neglect, or conduct a witch-hunt or to bring legal claims, but because we want the AFL to be a safer place for our children and all First Nations children who dream of playing AFL football.
In our cultures the past shapes and determines our future.
We ask as part of this process for the AFL to independently investigate how AFL policies, procedures and practices can be improved. We want to help educate AFL coaching staff, players and umpires about our cultures and our peoples and set KPI’s to annually test whether the AFL is doing better in relation to racism. For once and for all.
Today we have decided to participate in the AFL Independent Investigation on the basis that the AFL is also committed to independently look at its own failings and promises to all First Nations families it will do better as a result. And we appreciate this will take more time to complete than a Hawthorn focused investigation.
To the AFL Clubs’ boards of directors, tell the AFL not to sweep this crisis under the carpet as merely a Hawthorn problem. It’s not just a Hawthorn problem, just like it wasn’t just a Collingwood problem. Address the issue of racism in the AFL directly and purposively. The next crisis may be yours.
To those First Nations Players and their families who have previously been racially vilified, and hurt by the AFL’s failures and silences, please lend your voices to our call to the AFL to do better. You inspire us. We stand shoulder to shoulder with you.”
“You have asked us to participate in the AFL’s investigation into allegations of racism at the Hawthorn Football Club. We have reservations about that process and share many of the concerns expressed by Amy**. However, we also want to make sure our experiences will never be repeated and that is why we have taken our time to carefully consider our position.
We do want to tell our truths to a panel of independent investigators in a culturally safe environment.
But the issue of racism in the AFL cannot be dealt with by a narrowly targeted investigation on a club-by-club, or crisis-by-crisis, basis.
That may protect the AFL’s image and reputation in the short term, but it does not address our concerns, which won’t go away with a limited investigation of Hawthorn.
We want the AFL to take a good hard look at itself and how it has dealt with racism in the past. Not because we want to trawl over a 100 years of neglect, or conduct a witch-hunt or to bring legal claims, but because we want the AFL to be a safer place for our children and all First Nations children who dream of playing AFL football.
In our cultures the past shapes and determines our future.
We ask as part of this process for the AFL to independently investigate how AFL policies, procedures and practices can be improved. We want to help educate AFL coaching staff, players and umpires about our cultures and our peoples and set KPI’s to annually test whether the AFL is doing better in relation to racism. For once and for all.
Today we have decided to participate in the AFL Independent Investigation on the basis that the AFL is also committed to independently look at its own failings and promises to all First Nations families it will do better as a result. And we appreciate this will take more time to complete than a Hawthorn focused investigation.
To the AFL Clubs’ boards of directors, tell the AFL not to sweep this crisis under the carpet as merely a Hawthorn problem. It’s not just a Hawthorn problem, just like it wasn’t just a Collingwood problem. Address the issue of racism in the AFL directly and purposively. The next crisis may be yours.
To those First Nations Players and their families who have previously been racially vilified, and hurt by the AFL’s failures and silences, please lend your voices to our call to the AFL to do better. You inspire us. We stand shoulder to shoulder with you.”
No argument with any of that, a balanced and strong statement of intent.
Now it's up to the AFL to grow a pair and match it.
sr36
TheBrownDog
Is it worse the destabilisation of ongoing pressure on their coach and their choice of coach?
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