The league's best midfield?

[doppleganger]

Warnock, Kreuzer Jolly is currently much better in the ruck
Judd = Swan
Murphy = Pendles
Gibbs = Thomas
Simpson is a long way off Didak
Curnow is a long way off L.Ball
Ellard id prefer Wellingham
Robinson id prefer Beams
Carrazo, Scotland no different to B.Johnson and H.Shaw

Pies midfield much better....and could also throw Sidebottom and Krak into the mix.

 

[blues4flag]

Warnock, Kreuzer Jolly is currently much better in the ruck
Judd = Swan
Murphy = Pendles
Gibbs = Thomas
Simpson is a long way off Didak
Curnow is a long way off L.Ball
Ellard id prefer Wellingham
Robinson id prefer Beams
Carrazo, Scotland no different to B.Johnson and H.Shaw

Pies midfield much better....and could also throw Sidebottom and Krak into the mix.

Clearly deserve to be rated higher at this stage, hence why they were premiers.

Mind you, if anyone claimed the Pies had a better midfield than Geelong or St Kilda round 10, 2010, they'd have probably been laughed out of the thread.

 

[Big Kahuna Boot]

Apart from Swan and Pendlebury, you cuold throw about 5 players into the final 2 spots for our best starting midfield...hence the strength of the side.

..most midfields are like this though, to be fair.. ..modern day rotations means that there's no real starting mids and ruck like the days brions fab four or the eagles cox/cuz/judd/kerr gang.. ..i've seen plenty of games where one of the supposed midfield stars of any given team starts on the bench.. ..most teams have one or two bonafide guns, good solid support and then the 'soldiers'.. .... ..so many quality mids these days, it's more about getting the balance right and the 'timing' right of the mix..

 

[hk89]

Collingwood easily.

Not that easily. They were beaten by the cats in the midfield, if Geelong had a better forward line to support their mids work, the scoreline would have been very lopsided.

 

[forwardflanker]

in this order:

1. Collingwood - quality + depth
2. Geelong - quality +depth (just not as many options, nor as young as collingwood, very close though)
3. Carlton -top end quality, ok depth if your the type that rates wide receivers Scottland, Gibbs etc.

daylight

4. St Kilda - bad start to the year, I hate them but even without Hayes they still have a really strong midfield (not much quality now Hayes is out but as well drilled as any of the top 3 when playing well), really hope they dont make finals
4. Hawthorn - Too slow & predictable but solid enough. Midfield is going to be a huge liability for them v. the top teams though. Injuries is also an issue
5,6,7,8 WC, Rich, Freeo, Dogs (out of form atm but will regain it at some stage)
9. Essendon, one man midfield, the rest try really hard but lack any kind of quality - expect them to drop off as clubs who played finals last year improve fitness/ get players back from injury.
10. Sydney - see Essendon, good honest duds.
11. IDC about the rest except to say lol Nth Melbourne

 

[Mitchemx]

in this order:

1. Collingwood - quality + depth
2. Geelong - quality +depth (just not as many options, nor as young as collingwood, very close though)
3. Carlton -top end quality, ok depth if your the type that rates wide receivers Scottland, Gibbs etc.

daylight

4. St Kilda - bad start to the year, I hate them but even without Hayes they still have a really strong midfield (not much quality now Hayes is out but as well drilled as any of the top 3 when playing well), really hope they dont make finals
4. Hawthorn - Too slow & predictable but solid enough. Midfield is going to be a huge liability for them v. the top teams though. Injuries is also an issue
5,6,7,8 WC, Rich, Freeo, Dogs (out of form atm but will regain it at some stage)
9. Essendon, one man midfield, the rest try really hard but lack any kind of quality - expect them to drop off as clubs who played finals last year improve fitness/ get players back from injury.
10. Sydney - see Essendon, good honest duds.
11. IDC about the rest except to say lol Nth Melbourne

Damn it here i was thinking the midfield was a strength of ours. Thank you for helping me realise it's too slow and a liability.

 

[MC_9]

Damn it here i was thinking the midfield was a strength of ours. Thank you for helping me realise it's too slow and a liability.

Yep agreed, may aswell give up now.

Here i was thinking all these players were quality:

Baily
Roughead
Hodge
Mitchell
Burgoyne
Sewell
Lewis
Rioli
Shiels
Bateman

 

[Slattery_20]

Pies Cats still a step ahead of anyone. Blues very good, level pegging with Hawks (much improved IMHO). When Kerr's fit WCE aren't bad either. After that, Freo & Essendon are 'meh' in their current state but can be very, very good too. Swans do a job as always.
Saints won't worry many without Hayes. Dogs are messed in the head.

 

[blue healer]

Not that easily. They were beaten by the cats in the midfield, if Geelong had a better forward line to support their mids work, the scoreline would have been very lopsided.

Then, I reckon, that the Cats were beaten in the midfield by Carlton and the same applies to a dysfunctional forward line only the score wouldn't have been lopsided.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Yep agreed, may aswell give up now.

Here i was thinking all these players were quality:

Baily
Roughead
Hodge
Mitchell
Burgoyne
Sewell
Lewis
Rioli
Shiels
Bateman

We have no defence, we have no midfield and we only have one player up forward according to BF.

 

[apiro]

Pies Cats still a step ahead of anyone. Blues very good, level pegging with Hawks (much improved IMHO). When Kerr's fit WCE aren't bad either. After that, Freo & Essendon are 'meh' in their current state but can be very, very good too. Swans do a job as always.
Saints won't worry many without Hayes. Dogs are messed in the head.

This is a good well balanced appraisal IMHO.

 

[loki04]

Jolly - 196 games, 98 goals.

Ottens - 230 games, 240 goals.

Ottens is a quality ruckman and he does push forward but he also started as a forward for Richmond so his goal kicking tally would be skewed.

 

[Wish Wellingtons]

Ottens is a quality ruckman and he does push forward but he also started as a forward for Richmond so his goal kicking tally would be skewed.

Obviously.

 

[forwardflanker]

Yep agreed, may aswell give up now.

Here i was thinking all these players were quality:

Baily - injury prone
Roughead - lol how is he going to go v. sides that have a proper ruckman
Hodge - good player -but is he going to even play mid in big matches?
Mitchell - to slow, predictable
Burgoyne - not the same player
Sewell - to slow, past it, predictable
Lewis - to slow, predictable
Rioli - stands out from the rest, but how much time is he actually going to spend in mf.
Shiels - lol
Bateman - not the same player

Comments bolded

With Buddy and Roughy up forward any side with a decent midfield is a threat. You havent looked like it since you won in 2008. Midfield was good then, but the game has changed since and now its clearly outdated: to slow, to old, to predictable. Hawthorn cant win this years flag imo.

 

[hk89]

Then, I reckon, that the Cats were beaten in the midfield by Carlton and the same applies to a dysfunctional forward line only the score wouldn't have been lopsided.

That is a fair call. Carlton midfield looks much better than I'd thought they'd be earlier in the year (and earlier in this thread). Carlton vs Hawks should be a very interesting game this year, not expecting anything like the average margin we've seen in recent times. Based on raw stats this year, Carltons' midfield is definitely outperforming most, and deserves to be considered top 3 over the year, with Hawks perhaps in 4th. If you ignore 'over the long haul' performance as a factor, and focus soley on this year, Carlton possibly top 2. With Hodge appearing closer to fully fit now, I hope we can close that gap a bit over coming weeks (although Bateman's ankle injury hurts us for pace, although we are not as bad there as we have been in recent years). Still think Carlton lack a really effective forward structure, and so deserve to be one place behind Hawks as flag favourites, despite their excellent midfield performance this year.

 

[Cynic]

Comments bolded

With Buddy and Roughy up forward any side with a decent midfield is a threat. You havent looked like it since you won in 2008. Midfield was good then, but the game has changed since and now its clearly outdated: to slow, to old, to predictable. Hawthorn cant win this years flag imo.

WTF does 'to (sic) predictable' even mean?

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Comments bolded

With Buddy and Roughy up forward any side with a decent midfield is a threat. You havent looked like it since you won in 2008. Midfield was good then, but the game has changed since and now its clearly outdated: to slow, to old, to predictable. Hawthorn cant win this years flag imo.

Sure mate. How many games have you seen live lately? More to the point, how many Hawthorn games have you seen live lately?

 

[Slattery_20]

That comment's about 6 months out of date. If Burgoyne finds his early form again, Hawks will have a pretty fearsome running unit.

 

[absfab]

That comment's about 6 months out of date. If Burgoyne finds his early form again, Hawks will have a pretty fearsome running unit.

I'd still have a question mark over players with both quality and pace.

There's quality there, and the newer faces have to some degree injected much needed foot speed. But you'd like to see the two aspects coinciding a little more.

Then again, in a lot of games a quality midfield can make a fast midfield look slow by the end of the day.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

My take on Hawthorn's midfield...

Roughead - super mobile ruck, not too shabby in the hit out stakes either
Mitchell - elite clearance player and great decision maker by hand and foot
Sewell - good hard nosed in an under player
Lewis - ditto Sewell
Hodge - elite and damaging midfield general
Rioli - that 'x factor'
Burgoyne - all class, but down on form

That's a good first choice midfield line up, and the equal of any bar Geelong

Collingwood have the midfield stars in Pendlebury, Swan and Thomas. Ball is also a classy player, but Collingwood's other starting/rotating mids aren't of a high calibre, they are good players but not better players than a Hawk's lesser mid for example.

 

[MC_9]

Comments bolded

With Buddy and Roughy up forward any side with a decent midfield is a threat. You havent looked like it since you won in 2008. Midfield was good then, but the game has changed since and now its clearly outdated: to slow, to old, to predictable. Hawthorn cant win this years flag imo.

Well it is clear now that your knowledge of the game isn’t great. Or you are just trying to bait.

So I won’t waste my time responding.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

I'd still have a question mark over players with both quality and pace.

There's quality there, and the newer faces have to some degree injected much needed foot speed. But you'd like to see the two aspects coinciding a little more.

Then again, in a lot of games a quality midfield can make a fast midfield look slow by the end of the day.

Shiels, Savage, Burgoyne, Rioli ( when he plays in the middle ), Young & Batemen are all speedsters. Burgoyne & Rioli are class. Shiels looks like a ready made youngster and for proof of his quality see thread below
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=831901

Young & Bateman are solid B graders and Savage is young and up coming.

Add our tough in and under players in Hodge, Mitchell, Sewell and Lewis and there is a lot to like. Young blokes have really regenerated our list.

 

[Slattery_20]

I'd still have a question mark over players with both quality and pace.

There's quality there, and the newer faces have to some degree injected much needed foot speed. But you'd like to see the two aspects coinciding a little more.

Same at every side though. Much more rounded as a group now, IMHO.
Without saying Curnow/Ellard are top notch complete quality, Carlton have similarly added a bit to their weak point (hardness)

 

[absfab]

Shiels, Savage, Burgoyne, Rioli ( when he plays in the middle ), Young & Batemen are all speedsters. Burgoyne & Rioli are class. Shiels looks like a ready made youngster and for proof of his quality see thread below
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=831901

Young & Bateman are solid B graders and Savage is young and up coming.

Add our tough in and under players in Hodge, Mitchell, Sewell and Lewis and there is a lot to like. Young blokes have really regenerated our list.

Don't disagree with too much of that, although I struggle with Bateman as a speedster.

The potential of the younger guys, and I still include Rioli as flashy potential rather than established class, is in the eye of the beholder.

And as you say. All the top half Clubs have an eye to potential converting to reality. Only some will see that eventuate.

 

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

And as you say. All the top half Clubs have an eye to potential converting to reality. Only some will see that eventuate.

Very true.

I think where most of our improvement has come from is in our backline. Which is strange since our two best KPD have gone down for the season in Stratton & Gilham. Birchall has returned to his 2008 form, Gibson has lifted into another class & Suckling has been a revelation.

Back on topic, I think Geelong & Collingwood are a class above Hawthorn & Carlton in the middle until proven otherwise. But I genuinely believe that there are 4 clubs who are genuine shots at the premiership this year. Pretty wide open.