Autopsy The not even The Bont, Libbas and Jones' heroics can drag us over the line against the cats thread

[Doggies_13]

Our forward line continues to be an issue.

Lack of connection with midfield
Lack of awareness of each others leading patters
Fully reliant on big contested marks

Our forwards rarely get easy hit up marks to go back and have a set shot.

Every week the most targeted player is no target.

This is what needs to be fixed. We need to be able to get that easier goal, to take advantage of periods of dominance but we just scrap forward of centre. The issue is going to be so much of our cap will be used in that area of the ground but it’s our most dysfunctional area.

Second biggest problem is our ability to defend transition it has only slightly improved on last year and we still allow too many uninterrupted chains especially through the middle of the ground. Our inability to lay a tackle that locks the ball in hurts us.

The thing that bugs me the most and is why we get caught on turnover so badly is we continue to try to move the ball every time we get caught we rarely hold the ball in. Sometimes it’s better to take the holding the ball and let your team mates structure up than throw the ball out and open your team up defensively. There’s a balance and we haven’t found it

 

[Spiritof82]

I think this is AFL five day break is not an excuse. We travelled to every state in 2021 finals and won, except when we got the longer rest for the GF.

Geelong are a very system based team, you have to admire how well drilled they are, but the reality is, their older players are still their better players.

The green shoots for us were our youngsters, Darcy, Sanders,Gags, even Flea, great games from them.

Unfortunately once again it was our forward line that didn’t function well, spoiling each other, Naughton, really should play defence, Marra needs to go back to the VFL and get some form. They are both our weak spot instead of our strength.

Naughton actually played CHF or further down the ground and did a bit of good work with his pressure, but agree that UH should go back to the reserves, looks lost out on the ground and doesn't apply any pressure to the opposition, maybe leave Darcy in the forward line and bring in Lobb to ruck and drop English back as a loose man in the forward line as well as he's pretty pathetic as a ruckman.

 

[MrChristo]

Has to be clear and obvious without doubt to overturn umpires call,

With the cameras that are used no one can say either way there was enough evidence to overturn

It is obvious. You can't see the whole ball when he gets his hand on the ball because some of the ball is obscured by the post.
Therefore, it can't possibly have fully crossed the line (which is painted to the back of the post).

Anyway, no point arguing.

 

[charcoalchicken]

Too much of a mixed bag from players last night

Usual suspects Libba and bont were both outstanding, good games from jones, khamis, Darcy, west, Treloar and weightman

Then we have the problem with Daniel/Dale and macrae, three senior players that look lost atm

Think Dale can come good, I’m worried about Daniel and think macrae is finished, could see it last season.

Obviously mc weren’t kidding with macrae and Daniel being on the outer at the start of the season, they both look on the way out.

Macrae as sub isn’t a good idea either, no speed, doesn’t really offer any impact as he’s a link in the chain type accumulator

Bit of a transitional season with some core senior players being phased out

English smashed in the ruck again, he’d be an amazing 2nd banana swing man, probably best in the game but nah let’s not cater to his strengths

Scott is a better coach than bevo too imo, that much is clear.

 

[Next Waiting]

Treloar is not particularly clean and lacks a bit composure on the ball.
Sanders not as quick as I hoped he might be.
Geelong midfield being well undersold here. Thought Bruhn was very good and damaging on the burst.
Miers is an unbelievably different yet exquisite field kick with excellent vision.

 

[TiAn_]

Until we actually beat some good sides, I’m not going to be convinced we’ve improved on last year. Different, yes. Better? TBD.

We’ve got a stretch of five games coming up now where if we’re a serious side this year we should be able to place ourselves well inside the 8.

 

[Claudonious]

It is obvious. You can't see the whole ball when he gets his hand on the ball because some of the ball is obscured by the post.
Therefore, it can't possibly have fully crossed the line (which is painted to the back of the post).

Anyway, no point arguing.

You are assuming the camera is capturing the perfect angle.There is insufficient evidence as far as I am concerned. The review was intended for the howler - now it is about relying on millimetres with an imperfect camera.1 blurry frame is insufficient evidence, and should be considered as such.

That had to be umpires call.

No wonder they were all laughing.


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[Dogs Rule]

It's about time the torch was put to Naughton.

A spell in the twos or he can be planted at CHB so he has to work. Clearly way too comfortable now he has his contract in his pocket.

As for English, he just doesn't impose himself. He's so far away from Minson or Wynd it's not funny. No presence so just gets walked over.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Too much of a mixed bag from players last night

Usual suspects Libba and bont were both outstanding, good games from jones, khamis, Darcy, west, Treloar and weightman

Then we have the problem with Daniel/Dale and macrae, three senior players that look lost atm

Think Dale can come good, I’m worried about Daniel and think macrae is finished, could see it last season.

Obviously mc weren’t kidding with macrae and Daniel being on the outer at the start of the season, they both look on the way out.

Macrae as sub isn’t a good idea either, no speed, doesn’t really offer any impact as he’s a link in the chain type accumulator

Bit of a transitional season with some core senior players being phased out

English smashed in the ruck again, he’d be an amazing 2nd banana swing man, probably best in the game but nah let’s not cater to his strengths

Scott is a better coach than bevo too imo, that much is clear.

Thats the most galling part. What we could do with a better coach. We might actually use the players we have to our advantage. We might play them in their best positions, take advantage of their strengths and weakness and even (and wouldn't this be great) make some strategic moves.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

The ball isn't a score until it completely cross the back of the line.

He clearly (when I say clearly, I mean in a slow motion single frame) had his hands on the ball before it was entirely over the line. (Because we couldn't see the whole ball).

No fumble = mark.

Yep, they are very consistent with this call with score reviews. Whether that's how they should be interpreting the mark is up for debate but at the very least they are consistent with how they interpret it currently. Was always going to be overturned on review and would've happened the same way if it was at our end. Didn't break our way this time unfortunately.

Watching it in real time there is no way anyone would give not give it a behind.

 

[Doggy Dan]

These unlucky games never seem to break our way but at least they're less destructive in April than August

They’re exactly as destructive - we just notice them less.

 

[Chalky White]

Please enlighten us on what he did well strategically tonight?

I'm no Bevo fan either but until the last quarter Stewart was relatively quiet with West doing well.
The midfield setup was great. He has backed Buku in, which is now paying dividends. He could easily have played Lobby instead of Darcy but held his nerve.
In general defensive efforts good. Cameron, Miers and Stengle with efficiency hurt us badly.
My concern was the panicky dump kicks that we used, compare that to the Cats precision movement down the ground.
Richards, Treloar, Duryea, VDM, Buku all guilty of hacking the ball under pressure.
There are players in the team that need to be turned over. Daniel, Williams, VDM do not currently deserve a position in the team
Finally, Serious questions need to be asked if Naughton. There needs to be far greater output than that. If Lobby played a game like that the pitchforks would be out. Naughton seems to get a massive amount of leniency

 

[Kermit]

Yep, they are very consistent with this call with score reviews. Whether that's how they should be interpreting the mark is up for debate but at the very least they are consistent with how they interpret it currently. Was always going to be overturned on review and would've happened the same way if it was at our end. Didn't break our way this time unfortunately.

Watching it in real time there is no way anyone would give not give it a behind.

Honest question - why was it reviewed? They don’t review behinds, that’s the offical line (or was). Has that now actually changed after the issue with Adelaide last year? All goals are reviewed regardless but unless the goal umpire calls a review, why review it? The reviews have gone cray-cray this year

 

[Chalky White]

Duryea made plenty of errors. Surely JOD comes in next week and everything me shuffles down.

Duryea is disciplined on small fwds. More concerned with Dale having no accountability. Duryea is a role player.

 

[Chalky White]

The ball did shift in his hands as it moved past the line. You aren't considered to be in control the instant you touch it.

I'm not sure that ball moved in his hands. I think his hands moved which changed ball position. Forget the decision, the question is why he was able to mark it with no pressure at all.

 

[PocketRocket08]

Sorry to pick you out specifically here, Proffessor, but it was a mark.

The ball isn't a score until it completely cross the back of the line.

He clearly (when I say clearly, I mean in a slow motion single frame) had his hands on the ball before it was entirely over the line. (Because we couldn't see the whole ball).

No fumble = mark.

Sorry gang, but as soon as they showed the first replay it was inevitable.

A few thoughts while I'm here, echoing many others...
...Dale was poor. One very soft moment early. Kicking has gone downhill. (Although did run and try hard late).

If we could sum VDM up in one play...we all know what it was.

Macrae? It's 100% clear that we can't play him and CD in the same team, so I didn't mind the plan...
...and (unfortunately) CD may have just solved that problem himself.

Glad others here have been talking about the skills.
Someone specifically mentioned Duryea. He was fantastic in his defensive role, but some of his kicking was 2 or 3 off over a 20m kick. Not good enough and killed forward momentum a few times.

That wasn’t a mark yes he probably touches it before it’s fully over the line but he isn’t in control of that ball until it’s well over. Also the camera angles and the technology is piss poor. Especially when goal umpire has made a decision. Who is right there.
I’ll add that decision is not why we lost !!

 

[Proffessor]

Sorry to pick you out specifically here, Proffessor, but it was a mark.

The ball isn't a score until it completely cross the back of the line.

He clearly (when I say clearly, I mean in a slow motion single frame) had his hands on the ball before it was entirely over the line. (Because we couldn't see the whole ball).

No fumble = mark.

Sorry gang, but as soon as they showed the first replay it was inevitable.

A few thoughts while I'm here, echoing many others...
...Dale was poor. One very soft moment early. Kicking has gone downhill. (Although did run and try hard late).

If we could sum VDM up in one play...we all know what it was.

Macrae? It's 100% clear that we can't play him and CD in the same team, so I didn't mind the plan...
...and (unfortunately) CD may have just solved that problem himself.

Glad others here have been talking about the skills.
Someone specifically mentioned Duryea. He was fantastic in his defensive role, but some of his kicking was 2 or 3 off over a 20m kick. Not good enough and killed forward momentum a few times.

A good example of cherry picking here.

VDM, is a frustrating player, but one mistake shouldn’t be used to define his performance in a game let alone a career.

Similarly, apparent touch from one viewing aspect shouldn’t instantaneously equate with control. It was not that sort of clunking mark, he took it going backwards and it shifted in his hands as he was doing so. Certainly not clear enough for an uncalled for over rule. No chance that circumstance pans out our way if the roles were reversed.

Also tired of the focus on our more established players. The reason they make more mistakes is they are the ones making the okay or at least trying to.

So many of our younger blokes won’t even attempt to do what is required for fear of failure, which puts the responsibility on to too few, who then take more risks then they should.

Ain’t will hopefully come in time, but if Macrae and Daniel play full games last night I think we definitely would have won the game.

If players like Sanders, VDM, Bramble, Gallagher, Baker, etc. can lift their performance and actually deserve their spots ahead of guys like Daniel and Macrae. Then we would be in a great position.

 

[Hobdog]

Club puts the heat on the coach about needing to evolve and change. Coach starts transitioning older blokes out and bringing kids in. Team doesn’t go as well as we’d all like. Coach says well don’t blame me, you asked me to change things. Coach has cover. *tongue in cheek post


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[CarnTheScray]

Not much as changed really, just the names have changed. Still rely on Gods hand picked midfield trifecta (originally Bont Libba Macrae, now Bont Libba Treloar) to get us across the line. Have some other stand out players, a group of other players that have great moments, then proceed to play like western districts players less than a minute later, and another small group of players that shouldn’t be in the side no matter what.

 

[CarnTheScray]

A good example of cherry picking here.

VDM, is a frustrating player, but one mistake shouldn’t be used to define his performance in a game let alone a career.

Correct we should base it off a larger sample size, how about all his other games this season? Or last season? Or the season before that, especially the final. Because all those indicate he should not be playing AFL football.

 

[Chalky White]

A good example of cherry picking here.

VDM, is a frustrating player, but one mistake shouldn’t be used to define his performance in a game let alone a career.

Similarly, apparent touch from one viewing aspect shouldn’t instantaneously equate with control. It was not that sort of clunking mark, he took it going backwards and it shifted in his hands as he was doing so. Certainly not clear enough for an uncalled for over rule. No chance that circumstance pans out our way if the roles were reversed.

Also tired of the focus on our more established players. The reason they make more mistakes is they are the ones making the okay or at least trying to.

So many of our younger blokes won’t even attempt to do what is required for fear of failure, which puts the responsibility on to too few, who then take more risks then they should.

Ain’t will hopefully come in time, but if Macrae and Daniel play full games last night I think we definitely would have won the game.

If players like Sanders, VDM, Bramble, Gallagher, Baker, etc. can lift their performance and actually deserve their spots ahead of guys like Daniel and Macrae. Then we would be in a great position.

We have a pretty good snapshot of VDMs career though. Always makes the same errors, has very little potential for improvement h his technical flaws.
He had a career game last week vs WC who are the worst team in the league. It's folly to think he might improve a couple of percent when he's about 15% off being a serviceable player.

 

[Al dente]

I love Jamarra but one way or another he seriously needs to fix up his kicking, since the start of 2023 he has been the 2nd lowest accurate kick for goal behind Petracca and is the lowest key forward (minimum 50 shots)...

View attachment 1952390

JUH just doesnt hurt opposition,
its time to go beyond just getting his hands on the footy.
his field kicking and decision making is suspect too

 

[Libba39]

Lets not forget that we played four guys yesterday with 15 or less games experience.

Based on that it was a pretty good effort against a quality opposition full of premiership players.

Plenty to work with.

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[Al dente]

I'm no Bevo fan either but until the last quarter Stewart was relatively quiet with West doing well.
The midfield setup was great. He has backed Buku in, which is now paying dividends. He could easily have played Lobby instead of Darcy but held his nerve.
In general defensive efforts good. Cameron, Miers and Stengle with efficiency hurt us badly.
My concern was the panicky dump kicks that we used, compare that to the Cats precision movement down the ground.
Richards, Treloar, Duryea, VDM, Buku all guilty of hacking the ball under pressure.
There are players in the team that need to be turned over. Daniel, Williams, VDM do not currently deserve a position in the team
Finally, Serious questions need to be asked if Naughton. There needs to be far greater output than that. If Lobby played a game like that the pitchforks would be out. Naughton seems to get a massive amount of leniency

This is the first time ive seriously favoured Naughton to CHB.
we dont need him forward anymore, and we need a CHB
Jones is great defensively but is old and his decision making and field kicking is so so so bad. could barely get one to travel 30 metres last night.
The young ones coming through are undersized

 

[glenashley]

Honest question - why was it reviewed? They don’t review behinds, that’s the offical line (or was). Has that now actually changed after the issue with Adelaide last year? All goals are reviewed regardless but unless the goal umpire calls a review, why review it? The reviews have gone cray-cray this year

That's the issue for me. Why review and why overturn the umpires call?