The off topic thread 6.0

[Bojan KantKick]

I don’t like Trump or his policies at all but really the democrats in the US have to seriously change how they go about things. Just consistently telling everyone how bad the other guy is and how stupid people are for voting for him isn’t going to work. They just had to be much better at telling people what they were actually going to do and how they were going to make things better.

The more they just push against Trump the person over the next 4 years the more likely this happens all over again too. This cycle was unusual because of the disaster Biden became during the campaign but it was still probably saveable at that stage.

I don’t think we can really get too high and mighty about how dumb Americans are either. If we had an election next week Peter Dutton would be Prime Minister so similar ideas work over here as well.

Vance vs Shapiro in 4 years should be decent. Two people who can hold a conversation and debate policy without insulting each other.

 

[SM]

Vance vs Shapiro in 4 years should be decent. Two people who can hold a conversation and debate policy without insulting each other.

Hold a conversation? Vance?

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Hold a conversation? Vance?

I expect him to be on the republican ticket in 4 years, potentially as a current president. He has completed many long form interviews and had many long form conversations about policy, something that the other candidates haven't really done. Shapiro is incredibly sharp so hopefully it is a more interesting election than he's a nazi, she's a commie, etc.

 

[moomba]

Vance finds it very easy to speak because he's not in any way constrained by telling the truth.

 

[99 Problems]

See this is where I think the two campaigns were judged by different standards.

Trump constantly talked down America and slagged off anyone connected to the Harris campaign.

I'm struggling to think of a positive thing he said during the campaign unless he was talking about himself.

Harris campaign did criticise Trump, but spent a lot of time looking forward and speaking of opportunity and future. Every day, every rally there was a positive message.

But they are always going to be judged by different standards because voting isn’t compulsory. The heavy lifting for the Harris campaign was to convince democrats to actually turn out and vote. Given the democrats have been on the nose themselves with a lot of left-leaning voters for years, convincing people Trump was bad wasn’t going to cut it. They already knew that. They needed reasons to turn out and believe in Harris. Admittedly that was tough because she was never voted into that position and it’s easy with hindsight but that was another error from the democrats.

Trump on the other hand appealed massively to his followers and convinced enough swing voters that things were better under him then Biden. It doesn’t even have to be true, he just sold it better.

 

[moomba]

Vance vs Shapiro in 4 years should be decent. Two people who can hold a conversation and debate policy without insulting each other.

The two really aren't comparable. A Republican said he met the criteria of fascist. Harris mentioned it maybe a couple of times.

Trump insulted her daily for months.

 

[moomba]

But they are always going to be judged by different standards because voting isn’t compulsory. The heavy lifting for the Harris campaign was to convince democrats to actually turn out and vote. Given the democrats have been on the nose themselves with a lot of left-leaning voters for years, convincing people Trump was bad wasn’t going to cut it. They already knew that. They needed reasons to turn out and believe in Harris. Admittedly that was tough because she was never voted into that position and it’s easy with hindsight but that was another error from the democrats.

Trump on the other hand appealed massively to his followers and convinced enough swing voters that things were better under him then Biden. It doesn’t even have to be true, he just sold it better.

Like I said, there were positive messages every day from the Harris campaign. Lots of talk on policy.

Trump just talked about how great he was, how evil she was. The fact that sales pitch delivered by that person worked is a real concern for me.

 

[99 Problems]

Like I said, there were positive messages every day from the Harris campaign. Lots of talk on policy.

Trump just talked about how great he was, how evil she was. The fact that sales pitch delivered by that person worked is a real concern for me.

Trump supporters would say the exact same thing about him. Again I don’t like him and wouldn’t vote for him or the Republican Party if I was American. But if the next 4 years is spent telling people who either voted for Trump or just didn’t vote at all how dumb they are it’s gonna give the Republicans a pretty good head start next time around.

Harris didn’t lose the way she did today because a bunch of democrats suddenly decided they love Trump and bought whatever he is selling. Sure some swing voters did but she couldn’t win over enough of what should’ve been her base. And that’s even after the massive own goal Trumps approach to abortion rights has been.

Earlier on social media it was full of people telling Latino’s who voted for Trump how dumb they were because of his views on them. I just can’t comprehend that some people still don’t understand these are actual real people who made a choice based on their real life situations and opinions.

 

[UnitedWarrior93]

Dunno, Australian's arent that stupid. They managed to vote out Scomo

But now we have Albanese, then god knows who after that, Dutton

 

[Bradesmaen]

But now we have Albanese, then god knows who after that, Dutton

At least Albo isn't a control freak and doing things that god told him to do. Hopefully Dutton doesn't get in, he's actually dangerous like old Tony.

 

[moomba]

Trump supporters would say the exact same thing about him.

They might but they'd be lying.

I watched a load of Trump rallies over the past few months. The only positivity was when he was talking about himself.

Harris didn’t lose the way she did today because a bunch of democrats suddenly decided they love Trump and bought whatever he is selling. Sure some swing voters did but she couldn’t win over enough of what should’ve been her base. And that’s even after the massive own goal Trumps approach to abortion rights has been.

I think she won over a load of her base given where she started. But there were issues, economy, Israel etc that had an impact. Don't know how her numbers stacked up against Biden in 2020.

Earlier on social media it was full of people telling Latino’s who voted for Trump how dumb they were because of his views on them. I just can’t comprehend that some people still don’t understand these are actual real people who made a choice based on their real life situations and opinions.

Nothing she can do about social media. Personally I find the idea of any minority voting for Trump bizarre but I don't think you can blame Latinos or blacks for the result as they voted in numbers. Young white males is the bigger issue and as the parent of a 14 year it's a big issue for me.

 

[SM]

I expect him to be on the republican ticket in 4 years, potentially as a current president. He has completed many long form interviews and had many long form conversations about policy, something that the other candidates haven't really done. Shapiro is incredibly sharp so hopefully it is a more interesting election than he's a nazi, she's a commie, etc.

Yeah that's not the same as 'holding a conversation'.

 

[SM]

Trump supporters would say the exact same thing about him. Again I don’t like him and wouldn’t vote for him or the Republican Party if I was American. But if the next 4 years is spent telling people who either voted for Trump or just didn’t vote at all how dumb they are it’s gonna give the Republicans a pretty good head start next time around.

Harris didn’t lose the way she did today because a bunch of democrats suddenly decided they love Trump and bought whatever he is selling. Sure some swing voters did but she couldn’t win over enough of what should’ve been her base. And that’s even after the massive own goal Trumps approach to abortion rights has been.

Earlier on social media it was full of people telling Latino’s who voted for Trump how dumb they were because of his views on them. I just can’t comprehend that some people still don’t understand these are actual real people who made a choice based on their real life situations and opinions.

She lost because pro-Palestine voters didn't vote for her out of protest for Biden's treatment of Gaza, as well as the very obvious demographic issues that white women, men and older voters weren't going to vote for a black woman for president. It had nothing to do with positive/negative messaging no matter how many times you say it was.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

At least Albo isn't a control freak and doing things that god told him to do. Hopefully Dutton doesn't get in, he's actually dangerous like old Tony.

Dutton is extremely dangerous, far more than Abbot imo. Admittedly that's a view based on limited information from the other side of the world but I can't imagine he's changed much over the years. The attack dog could be in charge.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Yeah that's not the same as 'holding a conversation'.

I don't know what your definition is or what standard you are holding him to. His VP debate with Walz was respectful and full of policy conversation between the two and he has been on many long form podcasts which are mostly free form conversations.

 

[99 Problems]

She lost because pro-Palestine voters didn't vote for her out of protest for Biden's treatment of Gaza, as well as the very obvious demographic issues that white women, men and older voters weren't going to vote for a black woman for president. It had nothing to do with positive/negative messaging no matter how many times you say it was.

And we come back to my original point that telling every person who voted for Trump they are either too dumb, racist or misogynistic to know what they are voting for might not be a great way to win people over or understand their views.

 

[SM]

I don't know what your definition is or what standard you are holding him to. His VP debate with Walz was respectful and full of policy conversation between the two and he has been on many long form podcasts which are mostly free form conversations.

I mean, I posted a Youtube video of him trying to talk to a layman. He has no sense of a normal conversation which is what I thought we were referring to, not a policy-dense debate with another politician.

 

[moomba]

And we come back to my original point that telling every person who voted for Trump they are either too dumb, racist or misogynistic to know what they are voting for might not be a great way to win people over or understand their views.

When did she do that?

 

[SM]

And we come back to my original point that telling every person who voted for Trump they are either too dumb, racist or misogynistic to know what they are voting for might not be a great way to win people over or understand their views.

Hate to break it to you, but just because people don't like the truth doesn't make it any less true. When people make claims of systemic racism, just because it's uncomfortable to hear doesn't make it a valid criticism.

I also don't actually work for Harris so me saying it and pointing out the obvious doesn't mean she did it.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

She lost because pro-Palestine voters didn't vote for her out of protest for Biden's treatment of Gaza, as well as the very obvious demographic issues that white women, men and older voters weren't going to vote for a black woman for president. It had nothing to do with positive/negative messaging no matter how many times you say it was.

Out of interest, do you have any data to support this assertion? Understand if it is too early for solid data. I saw somewhere that 44-65 year olds voted in majority for Trump and other groups were in majority for Harris.

 

[SM]

Out of interest, do you have any data to support this assertion? Understand if it is too early for solid data. I saw somewhere that 44-65 year olds voted in majority for Trump and other groups were in majority for Harris.

Which assertion? You've just agreed with me.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

I mean, I posted a Youtube video of him trying to talk to a layman. He has no sense of a normal conversation which is what I thought we were referring to, not a policy-dense debate with another politician.

He's not a prime Bill Clinton type but very few are. Seems you are basing it on one video.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

Which assertion? You've just agreed with me.

She lost because pro-Palestine voters didn't vote for her out of protest for Biden's treatment of Gaza, as well as the very obvious demographic issues that white women, men and older voters weren't going to vote for a black woman for president. It had nothing to do with positive/negative messaging no matter how many times you say it was.

Assertion 1 - Pro Palestine voters didn't vote for her.
Assertion 2 - White men and women didn't vote for her.
Assertion 3 - Older voters didn't vote for her.

She won more votes than Trump from the over 65s, well as of about 5 hours ago.

 

[SM]

He's not a prime Bill Clinton type but very few are. Seems you are basing it on one video.

No that was just an easily found example to provide for you. His speeches at rallies were hardly much better.

 

[Bojan KantKick]

No that was just an easily found example to provide for you. His speeches at rallies were hardly much better.

I don't suppose you listened to any of the many long form podcasts he has done over the last few months?