The Otherworldly Circus - The America Thread

[Norm De Guerre]

Look. I am no supporter of Trump and his pro gun, anti abortion, anti public health, etc supporter base but I think you are too dismissive of the lawfare tactics. I hope we never see anything like that in this country.

A lot of people in this thread claim to not be supporters of Trump, then go onto argue in his favour. Funny 'bout that.

Anyways...

You are 100% correct. I am dismissive of the term lawfare because it's just a stupidly empty slogan for right wing talking heads to rally behind and disseminate to low information rubes on the likes of Fox, OAN, NewsMax and the Joe Rogan experience.

Sowing the seeds of mistrust in state institutions with easily repeatable (typically 3 words. So I give them credit for their brevity) slogans and repetition is the foundation of all propaganda and the first step towards instituting authoritarian rule. The last thing they want is for their supporters to look behind the curtain, because if they did all they'd see is a weak, blustering fool. Perhaps then they'd recognise the judicial system working as it's supposed to. You know, identifying people who break the law and bringing them to account without fear or favour.

However, even I will admit to how difficult a task this would be given how much the party of law and order has denigrated the DoJ, State District Attorneys the FBI and any other law enforcement that dares enforce the law against Donald J. Trump.

Theres a reason that he has had to rely on the Supreme Court and Aileen Cannon in Florida slow walking the federal indictments against him out to beyond the election. And it's not because there is a preponderance of evidence in his favour.

Both cases are considered a slam dunk for the DoJ if they ever get to trial.

But sure. Lawfare.

 

[Scotch N Coke Monatore]

Trump has decades of history with his unlawful business practices being settled outside of court. Is it that big a deal that someone finally took him to court?

You are being deliberately perverse.

 

[Scotch N Coke Monatore]

A lot of people in this thread claim to not be supporters of Trump, then go onto argue in his favour. Funny 'bout that.

Anyways...

You are 100% correct. I am dismissive of the term lawfare because it's just a stupidly empty slogan for right wing talking heads to rally behind and disseminate to low information rubes on the likes of Fox, OAN, NewsMax and the Joe Rogan experience.

Sowing the seeds of mistrust in state institutions with easily repeatable (typically 3 words. So I give them credit for their brevity) slogans and repetition is the foundation of all propaganda and the first step towards instituting authoritarian rule. The last thing they want is for their supporters to look behind the curtain, because if they did all they'd see is a weak, blustering fool. Perhaps then they'd recognise the judicial system working as it's supposed to. You know, identifying people who break the law and bringing them to account without fear or favour.

However, even I will admit to how difficult a task this would be given how much the party of law and order has denigrated the DoJ, State District Attorneys the FBI and any other law enforcement that dares enforce the law against Donald J. Trump.

Theres a reason that he has had to rely on the Supreme Court and Aileen Cannon in Florida slow walking the federal indictments against him out to beyond the election. And it's not because there is a preponderance of evidence in his favour.

Both cases are considered a slam dunk for the DoJ if they ever get to trial.

But sure. Lawfare.

Forget it, I leave you here.

 

[Scotch N Coke Monatore]

Say that again ?
Like what , the crimes he has been charged with?

If you you can't see it, what can I say, forgetvI was here.

 

[Freshwater]

The other day on the 4th of July I posted the Declaration of Independence. I don’t care if you’re right wing or left wing, Trump or Biden, red or blue, if you’re not a believer in these ideals and the constitution that shortly followed, that made the USA, then why are we even debating? The USA can’t be nation outside of these parameters. It’s not a right wing theocracy or a left wing socialist society it’s not the EU or even a Westminster parliamentary monarchy. If people over there or even in this debate want The USA to be that sort of country they’ll have to found their own country made in that image. Potentially fight a war of independence to achieve it? It can be changed but through amendments that the people have to ratify not backroom secret negotiations or even allowing interference from the UN and these type of world bodies. Trump or anyone acts outside these rules they need to be removed. If the borders aren’t being acknowledged the government is acting outside these boundaries. People walking around with Palistinian flags shouting “death to America” in the main country that allows ‘freedom of speech’ just don’t get the irony.
Fundamentalists that think America is a Christian nation, don’t get that Christianity thrived because it was THE country for ‘freedom of religion’ which allowed every sect that wasn’t the state approved sect to flourish and the rising consciousness that moves through the denominations. The irony is totally lost on them.
I’m asking is there people on this America thread who don’t even believe in America?

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Forget it, I leave you here.

If thats all you've got. Its probably for the best.

 

[BrisDog]

Trump is going to win this one boys. The Dem’s cannot get their shit together. How can you rely on a bloke, clearly mentally impaired, to have the clarity of mind to resign? It’s over.

 

[yebach]

Looking for help.
I'm trying to find data on the incaseration rates in America between Obama, Trump and Biden.
Also, the international death tolls where America has been involved between the 3 presidents.

P.s. I'm neither a Trump nor Biden supporter. I think the whole system is now a complete failure. That these two are the best candidate's on offer is proof that we are living in an age of madness.

 

[King Harold]

Trump is going to win this one boys. The Dem’s cannot get their shit together. How can you rely on a bloke, clearly mentally impaired, to have the clarity of mind to resign? It’s over.

Not so sure just yet, Biden will be gone by next weekend.
Any new candidate will give the Dems a bump.

Also interesting the far right have been shunned in France and The UK.

 

[synchrodogcal]

kh, perhaps the silent majority that the right leaning politicians like to spruik as their own are actually centrist or slightly left leaning

 

[King Harold]

A lot of people in this thread claim to not be supporters of Trump, then go onto argue in his favour. Funny 'bout that.

Anyways...

You are 100% correct. I am dismissive of the term lawfare because it's just a stupidly empty slogan for right wing talking heads to rally behind and disseminate to low information rubes on the likes of Fox, OAN, NewsMax and the Joe Rogan experience.

Sowing the seeds of mistrust in state institutions with easily repeatable (typically 3 words. So I give them credit for their brevity) slogans and repetition is the foundation of all propaganda and the first step towards instituting authoritarian rule. The last thing they want is for their supporters to look behind the curtain, because if they did all they'd see is a weak, blustering fool. Perhaps then they'd recognise the judicial system working as it's supposed to. You know, identifying people who break the law and bringing them to account without fear or favour.

However, even I will admit to how difficult a task this would be given how much the party of law and order has denigrated the DoJ, State District Attorneys the FBI and any other law enforcement that dares enforce the law against Donald J. Trump.

Theres a reason that he has had to rely on the Supreme Court and Aileen Cannon in Florida slow walking the federal indictments against him out to beyond the election. And it's not because there is a preponderance of evidence in his favour.

Both cases are considered a slam dunk for the DoJ if they ever get to trial.

But sure. Lawfare.

Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.
——- Joseph Goebbels

 

[bresker]

Biden gone by the end of July?

 

[King Harold]

The other day on the 4th of July I posted the Declaration of Independence. I don’t care if you’re right wing or left wing, Trump or Biden, red or blue, if you’re not a believer in these ideals and the constitution that shortly followed, that made the USA, then why are we even debating? The USA can’t be nation outside of these parameters. It’s not a right wing theocracy or a left wing socialist society it’s not the EU or even a Westminster parliamentary monarchy. If people over there or even in this debate want The USA to be that sort of country they’ll have to found their own country made in that image. Potentially fight a war of independence to achieve it? It can be changed but through amendments that the people have to ratify not backroom secret negotiations or even allowing interference from the UN and these type of world bodies. Trump or anyone acts outside these rules they need to be removed. If the borders aren’t being acknowledged the government is acting outside these boundaries. People walking around with Palistinian flags shouting “death to America” in the main country that allows ‘freedom of speech’ just don’t get the irony.
Fundamentalists that think America is a Christian nation, don’t get that Christianity thrived because it was THE country for ‘freedom of religion’ which allowed every sect that wasn’t the state approved sect to flourish and the rising consciousness that moves through the denominations. The irony is totally lost on them.
I’m asking is there people on this America thread who don’t even believe in America?

I promised I wouldn’t engage again with you on anything Trump related anymore, but Ah !!!!!

The irony in your post is breathtaking!
There is one Party and one nominee that wants to change your beloved America, because they don’t believe in the old USA and it’s constitution anymore.
And they have told you , are you not listening or believing them ?
Their appointed judges have just effectively made the President immune from crime.
Have you wondered why now ?
Is it so Biden can have Trump shot ? or could it be to absolve all of Trumps many crimes , now and into the future ?

Have you followed the project 2025 proposals for a Trump return,or have you bought the regular Trump BS that he knows nothing about it or the people behind it.
If you tell me you believe him , just go and seek some help.

Not interested in any equality argument, because quite frankly it’s total BS.

If you reply can you just deal with this post and not take me on another smoke filled history lesson.
If you don’t reply that’s ok

PS , if you wonder why I have so much interest in this subject ,it’s because I did 4 years of American history in high school, I have always found it interesting.

 

[Next Waiting]

Not so sure just yet, Biden will be gone by next weekend.
Any new candidate will give the Dems a bump.

Also interesting the far right have been shunned in France and The UK.

They need a poll to show Biden is 10 points behind Trump. If he's true to his word, that should be the death knell for his candidacy without the mess.

It will be disappointing if they (Biden and co) run with the our family are fighters and backs to the wall narrative past the point at which the situation is possibly salvageable by an alternative candidate.

It's not about his legacy or family's reputation. It's way bigger than that.

That point of salvageable or not salvageable is uncomfortably close.

 

[Freshwater]

I promised I wouldn’t engage again with you on anything Trump related anymore, but Ah !!!!!

The irony in your post is breathtaking!
There is one Party and one nominee that wants to change your beloved America, because they don’t believe in the old USA and it’s constitution anymore.
And they have told you , are you not listening or believing them ?
Their appointed judges have just effectively made the President immune from crime.
Have you wondered why now ?
Is it so Biden can have Trump shot ? or could it be to absolve all of Trumps many crimes , now and into the future ?

Have you followed the project 2025 proposals for a Trump return,or have you bought the regular Trump BS that he knows nothing about it or the people behind it.
If you tell me you believe him , just go and seek some help.

Not interested in any equality argument, because quite frankly it’s total BS.

If you reply can you just deal with this post and not take me on another smoke filled history lesson.
If you don’t reply that’s ok

PS , if you wonder why I have so much interest in this subject ,it’s because I did 4 years of American history in high school, I have always found it interesting.

I have never defended Trump or endorsed him in any way. A few here think that any explanation as why people actually hate so much of what the Democrats are, and stand for, that they might reluctantly vote for him. I’m obviously not talking about the rusted on MAGA’s but those that will decide the election. For the 10th time I don’t like the neo cons, the Republicans or Trump. But if you or anyone who seems left of centre can’t understand where modern leftism is at the moment with open borders, critical race theory, Palistinian madness, climate catastrophism etc. Only Brisdog has the ability to answer and call out the obvious undergraduate nonsense now masquerading as either Democratic policy or not called out by them because of their alliances. If you or they hate Trump why do they keep giving him every chance to win?

 

[BrisDog]

Only Brisdog has the ability to answer and call out the obvious undergraduate nonsense now masquerading as either Democratic policy or not called out by them because of their alliances. If you or they hate Trump why do they keep giving him every chance to win?

Fresh, thanks for the compliment, but for clarity I f**king hate Trump and hope he dies in the next week or two (natural causes, of course).

 

[Next Waiting]

Fresh, thanks for the compliment, but for clarity I f**king hate Trump and hope he dies in the next week or two (natural causes, of course).

I'd be OK with septic shock after shooting himself in the foot.

How interesting would it be if they both expired before election day.

I'd watch.

 

[Mofra]

I have never defended Trump or endorsed him in any way. A few here think that any explanation as why people actually hate so much of what the Democrats are, and stand for, that they might reluctantly vote for him. I’m obviously not talking about the rusted on MAGA’s but those that will decide the election. For the 10th time I don’t like the neo cons, the Republicans or Trump. But if you or anyone who seems left of centre can’t understand where modern leftism is at the moment with open borders, critical race theory, Palistinian madness, climate catastrophism etc. Only Brisdog has the ability to answer and call out the obvious undergraduate nonsense now masquerading as either Democratic policy or not called out by them because of their alliances. If you or they hate Trump why do they keep giving him every chance to win?

Populism does not always equal reality,
Even ignoring the fact that the Republicans voted down tougher border control measures because they want to make political headway over the issue, counter-intuitively closed borders can actually increase illegal immigration by forcing seasonal workers to stay put.

Circular migration - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[BrisDog]

Also interesting the far right have been shunned in France and The UK.

The Electoral College doesn’t inflict France or the UK.

In addition - is is clear Trumpsim is a formal cult, beyond politics.

 

[King Harold]

I have never defended Trump or endorsed him in any way. A few here think that any explanation as why people actually hate so much of what the Democrats are, and stand for, that they might reluctantly vote for him. I’m obviously not talking about the rusted on MAGA’s but those that will decide the election. For the 10th time I don’t like the neo cons, the Republicans or Trump. But if you or anyone who seems left of centre can’t understand where modern leftism is at the moment with open borders, critical race theory, Palistinian madness, climate catastrophism etc. Only Brisdog has the ability to answer and call out the obvious undergraduate nonsense now masquerading as either Democratic policy or not called out by them because of their alliances. If you or they hate Trump why do they keep giving him every chance to win?

You never addressed in any way what I just wrote ?

I’m leftist ? No I’m not.
You want to take me on this wider left v right journey.
(Voted Labour , Liberal about equal thereabouts)

Every issue I just try to apply common sense , no left or right for me.

Marriage equality —- voted Yes ( none of my business who people want to spend their life with ) so am I woke ?

The Gaza war , all for Hamas and any other terror group being wiped off the face of the earth.
They had every right to go in and chase these bastards as far as they could
But do we give Israel a total free pass to destroy children’s lives and futures no matter what, and will it make the future
safer for Israelis ? Does that make me leftist or woke ?
Perhaps it means I have concern for other human beings ?

So all things Trump are simple for me , this is a very ordinary human being with no moral compass and no right being anywhere near power for anything.

 

[King Harold]

Why are you so obsessed with me?, you PM me, now mention me in something nothing to do with me. Weird

Might be your name , Brisdog just got one of those AI dolls from Japan.

 

[MrChristo]

The other day on the 4th of July I posted the Declaration of Independence. I don’t care if you’re right wing or left wing, Trump or Biden, red or blue, if you’re not a believer in these ideals and the constitution that shortly followed, that made the USA, then why are we even debating? The USA can’t be nation outside of these parameters. It’s not a right wing theocracy or a left wing socialist society it’s not the EU or even a Westminster parliamentary monarchy. If people over there or even in this debate want The USA to be that sort of country they’ll have to found their own country made in that image. Potentially fight a war of independence to achieve it? It can be changed but through amendments that the people have to ratify not backroom secret negotiations or even allowing interference from the UN and these type of world bodies. Trump or anyone acts outside these rules they need to be removed. If the borders aren’t being acknowledged the government is acting outside these boundaries. People walking around with Palistinian flags shouting “death to America” in the main country that allows ‘freedom of speech’ just don’t get the irony.
Fundamentalists that think America is a Christian nation, don’t get that Christianity thrived because it was THE country for ‘freedom of religion’ which allowed every sect that wasn’t the state approved sect to flourish and the rising consciousness that moves through the denominations. The irony is totally lost on them.
I’m asking is there people on this America thread who don’t even believe in America?

I don't mean to quote this all, but you raise some interesting points...

The Declaration of Independence. 1776, if I'm not mistaken. Long time ago! Are you actually suggesting that a 'document' signed nearly 250 years ago is relevant today?
Any 'ideal' in today's terms are gone, changed a decade or two later. This crazy "our fore-fathers said we have the right to bare arms [sic]" is madness. The world changes. We move on.
Black people don't have to go to separate toilets. They can sit on the same bus.
Women can vote. They can work. They don't have to get beaten and raped at home because they are the "property" of their husband.

Can it be changed? Amendments?? The Homeland Security bill(s) changed things in an instant. Why are "amendments" from 200 years ago more appropriate than any amendments in a current/modern sense?

I haven't actually read what you posted, but I have the DoI in front of me now.. I'm telling you straight up that it kills your entire 'argument'.
1) The whole thing is based on there being some kind of [Christian] god. The place was settled by Puritans ffs. Christianity has never "thrived" there any more than anywhere else.

If you genuinely believe this, then please explain the Mormon faith to me. [I'm being genuine here].

One Nation under God. Founded nearly 2000 years after something that might have happened on the other side of the globe. [Again, Mormon me...]

Which makes an obvious lead to your second post; "Palistinian madness". Care to elaborate further? (I mean, I think there's a very obvious 'link'...)
Are you suggesting that the seas actually parted?
Are you suggesting that a possible country approximately 3500 years ago still has the 'rights' to that land?...
(...in which case (yeah, I'm going the obvious!), anyone on "US soil" should walk away real quickly!)

I'd suggest very strongly that [although you try to distance yourself from "rusted on MAGA's (*)"] that it's those very people who don't "believe in America".

A convicted criminal president.
"Thou shall not commit adultery". [Not that I care one bit, but rusted on MAGA's seem to].
"Thou shall not steal"....
"Thou shall not bear false witness..." [Lying is bad, mkay...]


That's before we even get into the modern "sins" of rape and carnal knowledge....

Genuine question; Are there more people shouting "Death to America", than saying; "Nope, no attempted insurrection took place"?
Than people saying; "Nope, these mass shootings were made up!"?
Than people saying; "Our drug problem comes from illegals..."?
Than people saying; "But Hunter's laptop..."

etc. etc. etc....

The UK has distanced itself, and now (surprisingly!) France too.

But, to answer your question...actually, I'm not even going to answer your question.
You tell me; Why should I believe in America?

 

[glenashley]

I don't mean to quote this all, but you raise some interesting points...

The Declaration of Independence. 1776, if I'm not mistaken. Long time ago! Are you actually suggesting that a 'document' signed nearly 250 years ago is relevant today?
Any 'ideal' in today's terms are gone, changed a decade or two later. This crazy "our fore-fathers said we have the right to bare arms [sic]" is madness. The world changes. We move on.
Black people don't have to go to separate toilets. They can sit on the same bus.
Women can vote. They can work. They don't have to get beaten and raped at home because they are the "property" of their husband.

Can it be changed? Amendments?? The Homeland Security bill(s) changed things in an instant. Why are "amendments" from 200 years ago more appropriate than any amendments in a current/modern sense?

I haven't actually read what you posted, but I have the DoI in front of me now.. I'm telling you straight up that it kills your entire 'argument'.
1) The whole thing is based on there being some kind of [Christian] god. The place was settled by Puritans ffs. Christianity has never "thrived" there any more than anywhere else.

If you genuinely believe this, then please explain the Mormon faith to me. [I'm being genuine here].

One Nation under God. Founded nearly 2000 years after something that might have happened on the other side of the globe. [Again, Mormon me...]

Which makes an obvious lead to your second post; "Palistinian madness". Care to elaborate further? (I mean, I think there's a very obvious 'link'...)
Are you suggesting that the seas actually parted?
Are you suggesting that a possible country approximately 3500 years ago still has the 'rights' to that land?...
(...in which case (yeah, I'm going the obvious!), anyone on "US soil" should walk away real quickly!)

I'd suggest very strongly that [although you try to distance yourself from "rusted on MAGA's (*)"] that it's those very people who don't "believe in America".

A convicted criminal president.
"Thou shall not commit adultery". [Not that I care one bit, but rusted on MAGA's seem to].
"Thou shall not steal"....
"Thou shall not bear false witness..." [Lying is bad, mkay...]


That's before we even get into the modern "sins" of rape and carnal knowledge....

Genuine question; Are there more people shouting "Death to America", than saying; "Nope, no attempted insurrection took place"?
Than people saying; "Nope, these mass shootings were made up!"?
Than people saying; "Our drug problem comes from illegals..."?
Than people saying; "But Hunter's laptop..."

etc. etc. etc....

The UK has distanced itself, and now (surprisingly!) France too.

But, to answer your question...actually, I'm not even going to answer your question.
You tell me; Why should I believe in America?

I agree with old documents being chucked.

That Magna Carta needs to be binned too....

 

[StringyDog]

Not so sure just yet, Biden will be gone by next weekend.
Any new candidate will give the Dems a bump.

Also interesting the far right have been shunned in France and The UK.

The reason it isn't done now is Harris is only real plausible candidate at this stage and is highly unlikely she is winning either as she won't move the needle in swing states which is all that really counts.

I wouldn't say they were shunned, underperformed against expectations but they have a large amount of seats in parliament. France is basically ****ed for foreseeable future as they are now left with an ungovernable parliament, with central's now having no power with far left and far right in so many seats nothing will get done in years ahead for them likely means Macron will be gone come next election as the country will be in disarray.

 

[Freshwater]

I don't mean to quote this all, but you raise some interesting points...

The Declaration of Independence. 1776, if I'm not mistaken. Long time ago! Are you actually suggesting that a 'document' signed nearly 250 years ago is relevant today?
Any 'ideal' in today's terms are gone, changed a decade or two later. This crazy "our fore-fathers said we have the right to bare arms [sic]" is madness. The world changes. We move on.
Black people don't have to go to separate toilets. They can sit on the same bus.
Women can vote. They can work. They don't have to get beaten and raped at home because they are the "property" of their husband.

Can it be changed? Amendments?? The Homeland Security bill(s) changed things in an instant. Why are "amendments" from 200 years ago more appropriate than any amendments in a current/modern sense?

I haven't actually read what you posted, but I have the DoI in front of me now.. I'm telling you straight up that it kills your entire 'argument'.
1) The whole thing is based on there being some kind of [Christian] god. The place was settled by Puritans ffs. Christianity has never "thrived" there any more than anywhere else.

If you genuinely believe this, then please explain the Mormon faith to me. [I'm being genuine here].

One Nation under God. Founded nearly 2000 years after something that might have happened on the other side of the globe. [Again, Mormon me...]

Which makes an obvious lead to your second post; "Palistinian madness". Care to elaborate further? (I mean, I think there's a very obvious 'link'...)
Are you suggesting that the seas actually parted?
Are you suggesting that a possible country approximately 3500 years ago still has the 'rights' to that land?...
(...in which case (yeah, I'm going the obvious!), anyone on "US soil" should walk away real quickly!)

I'd suggest very strongly that [although you try to distance yourself from "rusted on MAGA's (*)"] that it's those very people who don't "believe in America".

A convicted criminal president.
"Thou shall not commit adultery". [Not that I care one bit, but rusted on MAGA's seem to].
"Thou shall not steal"....
"Thou shall not bear false witness..." [Lying is bad, mkay...]


That's before we even get into the modern "sins" of rape and carnal knowledge....

Genuine question; Are there more people shouting "Death to America", than saying; "Nope, no attempted insurrection took place"?
Than people saying; "Nope, these mass shootings were made up!"?
Than people saying; "Our drug problem comes from illegals..."?
Than people saying; "But Hunter's laptop..."

etc. etc. etc....

The UK has distanced itself, and now (surprisingly!) France too.

But, to answer your question...actually, I'm not even going to answer your question.
You tell me; Why should I believe in America?

The Declaration of Independence is as relevant today as it ever was. That is exactly why Lincoln referred back to it in his Gettysburg Address because of its relevance to enslaved blacks in the south 87 years after and Martin Luther King referred to it directly when he was for for equal and civil rights in the 1960’s nearly 200 years past its signing. It is relevant because no law can supersede it and the USA still exists. But even more importantly than the legal technicality that still makes it relevant is that there is still no moral or ethical principle above it, how can there be. If it is not relevant anymore it is only because of regression not progression.