Discussion The Random Discussion Thread

[Armoooo]

You're making an awful lot of assumptions.

I find that's what a lot of people do when someone disagrees with them. They'll just assume their motivation is sinister. They'll cast aspersions on their character. Anything other than to simply look at what they're saying.

Must be that I find trans people "icky" and don't really give a damn about the kids. Throw in must be right wing.

You might have your kitty litter thing to judge people by, but when people do the above, it's completely pointless discussing anything with them.

You believe a distinction between "cis" women and trans women is important? You say that like it actually means something. It's a completely ludicrous statement. One is a woman, the other simply isn't.

I don't care how trans people choose to live, most people don't. Just as most people don't actually believe trans women are women. They're just too scared to say so because they'll be labelled all sorts of horrible sh*t.

I'm making a lot of assumptions, but you're not exactly proving any of them wrong.

I've had these exact same discussions with all my right wing mates and family countless times. You all say the exact same things, it's incredible. So many free thinkers all come down to the exact same conclusion, right down to using the same made up scenarios (kids identifying as cats) and the same tired jokes (identifying as a helicopter). It gets to the point where you can make their next argument for them before they can.

Then you play the victim card, "oh boohoo I get called a nasty name ."

what do you think happens to looney lefties when we try to point out that there are observable differences in the brain structure of trans women that align more closely with cis wome than their natural sex? We get called brainwashed, woke, insane etc.

I've played a game with quite a few right wing people where I ask them to provide a definition of a woman that does not that have exceptions and they can't do it. Any concrete dichotomous definition will always end up including people they don't consider women, or exclude someone they do consider women.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Throughout history there have been men who've exist as women and women who've existed as men, so it's not a new phenomenon. The difference now is the platform provided for every effwit that wants it. The vast majority of trans/non binary, etc people just want to live in peace like the rest of us, but as with all cases there's a minority that are just aholes and will self victimise their way to notoriety. Politicians that lack courage or decency will ride the topic or placate the aholes for votes and/or avoiding the negative press. As many have already said, for the general population it's a non issue, but is does keep us distracted from the real issues regarding the continual destruction of this country by forces that prefer to remain unseen. If you allow yourself to get pulled into things like the trans debate then you're already off track. Just be kind to all walks of life and you're doing your bit for the national social welfare. Avoid voting for the major parties and look for independent candidates who possess integrity and courage moreover than agreeing with your points of view on everything as the real battle is to insure diversity of opinion in political circles that it can be representative of the population.

The only important issue facing the country is, was and will always be the same. Government corruption. Focus on that and all the other problems go away over time.

 

[Sully111]

I'm making a lot of assumptions, but you're not exactly proving any of them wrong.

I've had these exact same discussions with all my right wing mates and family countless times. You all say the exact same things, it's incredible. So many free thinkers all come down to the exact same conclusion, right down to using the same made up scenarios (kids identifying as cats) and the same tired jokes (identifying as a helicopter). It gets to the point where you can make their next argument for them before they can.

Then you play the victim card, "oh boohoo I get called a nasty name ."

what do you think happens to looney lefties when we try to point out that there are observable differences in the brain structure of trans women that align more closely with cis wome than their natural sex? We get called brainwashed, woke, insane etc.

I've played a game with quite a few right wing people where I ask them to provide a definition of a woman that does not that have exceptions and they can't do it. Any concrete dichotomous definition will always end up including people they don't consider women, or exclude someone they do consider women.

Mate

There is no argument

Just facts vs insanity

I'm not playing the victim. I'm just pointing out the tactic used to silence people.

You're so stuck on your cats/helicopter thing... it's pretty funny actually. Your mind is made up. Anyone that doesn't agree with you is coming from a place of hate and ignorance. It couldn't just be they don't think women have dicks.

I'm not going to debate you on specifics. There's really nothing to debate.

The only way this changes though is when your average person casts aside fear of being labelled as hateful and actually says what they think. When the science teacher at my Son's school told him it was a scientific fact that trans women are real women, I decided if I just keep my mouth shut, I'm part of the problem.

I don't care how trans people live. But anyone who tries to force me into believing this madness can go f8ck themselves.

Men don't belong competing against women in sport. Men don't belong in women's bathrooms. And yes... wait for it... children shouldn't be manipulated and mutilated.

 

[Sully111]

Throughout history there have been men who've exist as women and women who've existed as men, so it's not a new phenomenon. The difference now is the platform provided for every effwit that wants it. The vast majority of trans/non binary, etc people just want to live in peace like the rest of us, but as with all cases there's a minority that are just aholes and will self victimise their way to notoriety. Politicians that lack courage or decency will ride the topic or placate the aholes for votes and/or avoiding the negative press. As many have already said, for the general population it's a non issue, but is does keep us distracted from the real issues regarding the continual destruction of this country by forces that prefer to remain unseen. If you allow yourself to get pulled into things like the trans debate then you're already off track. Just be kind to all walks of life and you're doing your bit for the national social welfare. Avoid voting for the major parties and look for independent candidates who possess integrity and courage moreover than agreeing with your points of view on everything as the real battle is to insure diversity of opinion in political circles that it can be representative of the population.

The only important issue facing the country is, was and will always be the same. Government corruption. Focus on that and all the other problems go away over time.

I honestly don't know a single person in my circle of family/friends etc that has any problem with trans people living how they choose to live.

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Mate

There is no argument

Just facts vs insanity

I'm not playing the victim. I'm just pointing out the tactic used to silence people.

You're so stuck on your cats/helicopter thing... it's pretty funny actually. Your mind is made up. Anyone that doesn't agree with you is coming from a place of hate and ignorance. It couldn't just be they don't think women have dicks.

I'm not going to debate you on specifics. There's really nothing to debate.

The only way this changes though is when your average person casts aside fear of being labelled as hateful and actually says what they think. When the science teacher at my Son's school told him it was a scientific fact that trans women are real women, I decided if I just keep my mouth shut, I'm part of the problem.

I don't care how trans people live. But anyone who tries to force me into believing this madness can go f8ck themselves.

Men don't belong competing against women in sport. Men don't belong in women's bathrooms. And yes... wait for it... children shouldn't be manipulated and mutilated.

That's the thing these days. Everyone's mind is made up. It doesn't sound like you're any chance of changing your mind either. I don't think anyone really debates in good faith anymore. Specially not behind an annonymous (or fake facebook) name.

And a recent election probably just cemented that fact.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I honestly don't know a single person in my circle of family/friends etc that has any problem with trans people living how they choose to live.

Same here. There is no trans issue, it's just part of the smoke screen.
There are people who find trans people icky. People who are racist. People who are sexist, etc, etc, etc. It's called humanity, and it's not worth a milliseconds brain power.

 

[Armoooo]

I don't care how trans people live. But anyone who tries to force me into believing this madness can go f8ck themselves.

Men don't belong competing against women in sport. Men don't belong in women's bathrooms. And yes... wait for it... children shouldn't be manipulated and mutilated.

"i don't care" but they "can go f8ck themselves"

"I don't care how trans people live" but they can't do x, y and z.

I'm the one who is unaccepting of your views, yet people who feel differently to you are being "manipulated".

I'm actually far from an advocate for trans rights, as scrappy has said, it's all just a distraction. I'd be willing to sacrifice the entire trans rights movement to battle wealth inequality, address climate change, focus on nuclear deproliferation etc.

But people who carry on about people wanting to be called by a different pronoun like its the downfall of civilisation really need to get some perspective.

 

[True Believer]

I'm making a lot of assumptions, but you're not exactly proving any of them wrong.

I've had these exact same discussions with all my right wing mates and family countless times. You all say the exact same things, it's incredible. So many free thinkers all come down to the exact same conclusion, right down to using the same made up scenarios (kids identifying as cats) and the same tired jokes (identifying as a helicopter). It gets to the point where you can make their next argument for them before they can.

Then you play the victim card, "oh boohoo I get called a nasty name ."

what do you think happens to looney lefties when we try to point out that there are observable differences in the brain structure of trans women that align more closely with cis wome than their natural sex? We get called brainwashed, woke, insane etc.

I've played a game with quite a few right wing people where I ask them to provide a definition of a woman that does not that have exceptions and they can't do it. Any concrete dichotomous definition will always end up including people they don't consider women, or exclude someone they do consider women.

Made up scenarios?

Brisbane private school students are identifying as cats

A handful of students believe they are animals and have asked to be called 'furries' by their peers at Brisbane Girls Grammar School.

www.dailymail.co.uk

School that allowed pupil to identify as cat facing 'pupil safety' investigation

A school at the centre of a row over children identifying as animals is facing an investigation ordered by the Education Secretary.

www.lbc.co.uk

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/school-life/furries-australia-year-8-melbourne-private-school-girl-identifies-as-a-cat/news-story/04f31c482d0701cc1b42e047b5bcfce2

Shall we go on?

Yes I used the helicopter joke - equally I could have asked "if I stick a horn to my forehead and prance around does that make me a unicorn?", or "if I put on a Nazi uniform, grow a little moustache and start goose-stepping around the lounge-room does that make me Hitler?"

The helicopter version tickles my funny-bone more so I used that one - but you're taking this off on a tangent. The example is irrelevant, because the fact is if anyone displayed those behaviours we would rightly regard them as in need of help from a mental health professional and seek to ensure they received that help.

Instead, the current politics of the left ordains the division of society into ever smaller tribes, with some more favoured than others in the area of what I have dubbed "victim olympics". LGBT are part of the "untouchable" groups within that framework, and trans is the most obviously vocal activist group in recent times, dsiporportionately so, and WAY beyond the "miniscule" size of that group, according to you. Anyone NOT pandering to those who imagine they are something they are not, are then set upon for beiong a bigot or a "hater"......you're doing it now.

It is not imagined, it is not made up, men are competing in women's sports and claiming to be women. Let me say it again - if you have a penis you are NOT a woman!!! It should be self-evident, but apparently we are all now required to participate in the suspension of scientific facts and the delusions of confused adolescents, and failed male athletes.

A skeptic would also observe that there appears to be comparively bugger-all females claiming to be male and wanting to compete in male sports!!

 

[Sully111]

"i don't care" but they "can go f8ck themselves"

"I don't care how trans people live" but they can't do x, y and z.

I'm the one who is unaccepting of your views, yet people who feel differently to you are being "manipulated".

I'm actually far from an advocate for trans rights, as scrappy has said, it's all just a distraction. I'd be willing to sacrifice the entire trans rights movement to battle wealth inequality, address climate change, focus on nuclear deproliferation etc.

But people who carry on about people wanting to be called by a different pronoun like its the downfall of civilisation really need to get some perspective.

Keep twisting

Again, I reject your ignorant spin.

 

[Armoooo]

Made up scenarios?

Brisbane private school students are identifying as cats

A handful of students believe they are animals and have asked to be called 'furries' by their peers at Brisbane Girls Grammar School.

www.dailymail.co.uk

School that allowed pupil to identify as cat facing 'pupil safety' investigation

A school at the centre of a row over children identifying as animals is facing an investigation ordered by the Education Secretary.

www.lbc.co.uk

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/school-life/furries-australia-year-8-melbourne-private-school-girl-identifies-as-a-cat/news-story/04f31c482d0701cc1b42e047b5bcfce2

Shall we go on?

Yes I used the helicopter joke - equally I could have asked "if I stick a horn to my forehead and prance around does that make me a unicorn?", or "if I put on a Nazi uniform, grow a little moustache and start goose-stepping around the lounge-room does that make me Hitler?"

The helicopter version tickles my funny-bone more so I used that one - but you're taking this off on a tangent. The example is irrelevant, because the fact is if anyone displayed those behaviours we would rightly regard them as in need of help from a mental health professional and seek to ensure they received that help.

Instead, the current politics of the left ordains the division of society into ever smaller tribes, with some more favoured than others in the area of what I have dubbed "victim olympics". LGBT are part of the "untouchable" groups within that framework, and trans is the most obviously vocal activist group in recent times, dsiporportionately so, and WAY beyond the "miniscule" size of that group, according to you. Anyone NOT pandering to those who imagine they are something they are not, are then set upon for beiong a bigot or a "hater"......you're doing it now.

It is not imagined, it is not made up, men are competing in women's sports and claiming to be women. Let me say it again - if you have a penis you are NOT a woman!!! It should be self-evident, but apparently we are all now required to participate in the suspension of scientific facts and the delusions of confused adolescents, and failed male athletes.

A skeptic would also observe that there appears to be comparively bugger-all females claiming to be male and wanting to compete in male sports!!

If there are 500 kids in a school, there would be 500 phones.

If this was happening we would have video evidence, we wouldn't have the daily telegraph quoting anonymous peoples whose friend knows a parent of one of the kids.

In the first example, the school confirm they haven't received any reports of that behaviour.

Furries are a very different thing as well. It's hard to explain to somebody who I'm assuming (another assumption lol) is 50+?

But furries are a subculture of people who are usually more the outcast type that obsess over things like Japanese cartoons. Furries is usually a sexual fetish. The people who dress up as my little pony characters don't believe they're ponies, they get sexual gratification by pretending they are. It's all very disturbing, but is an entirely different issue. If you haven't grown up with the internet it will seem very foreign.

The only time I can imagine anything like this having happened would be with kids who have severe autism or have experienced significant trauma. Kids in this situation can resort to imaginary escapism to avoid emotional hyperstimulation. In these rare instances it may be in the best interest to allow the child some escapism until such a time that they are able to self-regulate.

Again, entirely different and something your unlikely to see in the main stream schools, these kids tend to need greater support in a specialist school.

There just aren't kids out there who truly believe they're a cat in schools. The media are intentionally conflating issues that have nothing to do with each other.

 

[True Believer]

But people who carry on about people wanting to be called by a different pronoun like its the downfall of civilisation really need to get some perspective.

It's called death by a thousand cuts, and in and of itself, it is little more than a distraction, but what needs to be recognised is that is being used a part of a larger push to sow disharmony and fracture our society.

Ask why we have moved from pushing the concept of acceptance of LGBT to a point where what is being pushed now is "allyship"......

Now, the average person is not just being asked to be a better person who simply gets along with others (as we all should, imo), but is now being asked to advocate on behalf of various minorities, and being labelled if they push back!

We had an example of a christian-owned cake shop around the time of the same-sex marriage issue. I expect people to treat their fellow humans with dignity and respect, irrelelvant of their beliefs, but these people, as people of devout faith, were being pilloried for not wanting to sell a wedding cake to a gay wedding. Activists had moved from asking then for acceptance to demanding active participation in the cause!

Feminism has moved from demanding equality (and rightly so), to demanding equity!

There are numerous examples, and lots of them are being actively funded and driven at high levels from people outside of the western democratic nations.....but only taking place within western democratic nations......

 

[True Believer]

A more succinct summary has occurred to me:

The biggest problem with all of these issues is that everything is an issue that serves to divide us, they are all issues with people demanding to be treated differently and special !

Not one of them is an issue that unites us...........

 

[ScrappyDo]

Mate

There is no argument

Just facts vs insanity

I'm not playing the victim. I'm just pointing out the tactic used to silence people.

You're so stuck on your cats/helicopter thing... it's pretty funny actually. Your mind is made up. Anyone that doesn't agree with you is coming from a place of hate and ignorance. It couldn't just be they don't think women have dicks.

I'm not going to debate you on specifics. There's really nothing to debate.

The only way this changes though is when your average person casts aside fear of being labelled as hateful and actually says what they think. When the science teacher at my Son's school told him it was a scientific fact that trans women are real women, I decided if I just keep my mouth shut, I'm part of the problem.

I don't care how trans people live. But anyone who tries to force me into believing this madness can go f8ck themselves.

Men don't belong competing against women in sport. Men don't belong in women's bathrooms. And yes... wait for it... children shouldn't be manipulated and mutilated.

"i don't care" but they "can go f8ck themselves"

"I don't care how trans people live" but they can't do x, y and z.

I'm the one who is unaccepting of your views, yet people who feel differently to you are being "manipulated".

I'm actually far from an advocate for trans rights, as scrappy has said, it's all just a distraction. I'd be willing to sacrifice the entire trans rights movement to battle wealth inequality, address climate change, focus on nuclear deproliferation etc.

But people who carry on about people wanting to be called by a different pronoun like its the downfall of civilisation really need to get some perspective.

Isn't this getting old?
How bout this:

1. Children should not be mutilated or exposed to sexualized subjects or content of any kind. Those who do it should be tied up with razor wire and very slowly burned alive.

2. Trans women competing in sport is entirely a matter for women to worry about and will sort itself out in time.

3. Anyone can desire to go by whatever description they wish, but compelled speach is fundamentally wrong.

4. It is entirely possible for 2 reasonable people to agree on principle but disagree on the application, whilst still getting along.

5. It is entirely possible for 2 reasonable people to disagree on principle, whilst still getting along.

 

[Armoooo]

A more succinct summary has occurred to me:

The biggest problem with all of these issues is that everything is an issue that serves to divide us, they are all issues with people demanding to be treated differently and special !

Not one of them is an issue that unites us...........

I like that summary, but the only problem is that it's a matter of perspective.

You might think a trans person is asking for special treatment by choosing which bathroom they use.

To people who's brain chemistry tells them they're a different gender than their chromosomes do, they feel like they're asking for equal treatment by being allowed be treated as the gender they believe they are.

There's definitely interests on both sides, foreign and domestic, who are interested in making this be a defining issue.

 

[Armoooo]

Isn't this getting old?
How bout this:

1. Children should not be mutilated or exposed to sexualized subjects or content of any kind. Those who do it should be tied up with razor wire and very slowly burned alive.

2. Trans women competing in sport is entirely a matter for women to worry about and will sort itself out in time.

3. Anyone can desire to go by whatever description they wish, but compelled speach is fundamentally wrong.

4. It is entirely possible for 2 reasonable people to agree on principle but disagree on the application, whilst still getting along.

5. It is entirely possible for 2 reasonable people to disagree on principle, whilst still getting along.

1. I agree that children shouldn't have any irreversible surgical intervention. Children should be exposed to some sexualising content however in an appropriate educational environment. I had sex ed growing up and found it useful, if we don't teach kids this stuff they'll learn it from pr0n.

2. I don't really care how it lands, just as long as any transwoman professional athlete doesn't have a competitive advantage.

3. It depends what you mean by compelled. Don't think you should get jailed for misgendering. But if you're going to deliberately misgender someone you can't get your nose out of joint when they insult you back. You might think you're in the right because of biology, but you're still intentionally offending someone and should be grown up enough to accept there can be consequences.

4. Agreed

5. Agreed

 

[Yawkey way]

When medical data doesn't match my opinion it's propaganda.

Another classic.

Tell me, what makes you think that I am any more susceptible to propaganda than you are? What makes you so special that you are able to see through the lies that the medical community cannot?

Simple, facts and peer reviewed articles and data. Every time I’m interested or concerned about something I do my own research including talking to people who have some expertise or experience where possible.

I’m lucky to have a 4 extremely well educated children two teach, 1 at primary 1 at university, 12 degrees between them including 2 PhDs. My next door neighbors are both very well know former professors, I have a wide circle of friends, I don’t live in an echo chamber. I’m not young, I have some lived experience which is underrated these days.

Now I have no idea where you get your information from but if I were you I’d question anything I read or hear these days. I mean woman gives birth to 3 pound baby trout is not something I believe. You’ve just watched the absolute lies and garbage from the legacy media in a US election yet you think you can trust what you read ?

Have you seen admiral Rachel Livine paediatrician and trans, would you trust the word of that person ?. Anyway it doesn’t really bother me what you believe it’s a random discussion forum on bigfooty. I am however confidant I’m on very solid ground on this so I’ve had my say and I’ll leave it at that.

 

[ScrappyDo]

1. I agree that children shouldn't have any irreversible surgical intervention. Children should be exposed to some sexualising content however in an appropriate educational environment. I had sex ed growing up and found it useful, if we don't teach kids this stuff they'll learn it from pr0n.

2. I don't really care how it lands, just as long as any transwoman professional athlete doesn't have a competitive advantage.

3. It depends what you mean by compelled. Don't think you should get jailed for misgendering. But if you're going to deliberately misgender someone you can't get your nose out of joint when they insult you back. You might think you're in the right because of biology, but you're still intentionally offending someone and should be grown up enough to accept there can be consequences.

4. Agreed

5. Agreed

1. Agreed

2. Agreed

3. Agreed. However the issue exists around the definition of "deliberate" and the potential repercussions. An individual may not want to use they/them etc as a matter of personal principle but it doesn't mean they are setting out to offend anyone. Same as religious preferences. Mutual respect does not require agreement.

4. Agreed

5. Agreed

 

[Armoooo]

Simple, facts and peer reviewed articles and data. Every time I’m interested or concerned about something I do my own research including talking to people who have some expertise or experience where possible.

I’m lucky to have a 4 extremely well educated children two teach, 1 at primary 1 at university, 12 degrees between them including 2 PhDs. My next door neighbors are both very well know former professors, I have a wide circle of friends, I don’t live in an echo chamber. I’m not young, I have some lived experience which is underrated these days.

Now I have no idea where you get your information from but if I was you I’d question anything I read or hear these days. I mean woman gives birth to 3 pound baby trout is not something I believe. You’ve just watched the absolute lies and garbage from the legacy media in a US election yet you think you can trust what you read ?

Have you seen admiral Rachel Livine paediatrician and trans, would you trust the word of that person ?. Anyway it doesn’t really bother me what you believe it’s a random discussion forum on bigfooty. I am however confidant I’m on very solid ground on this so I’ve had my say and I’ll leave it at that.

There is an assumption by people on the right, that anybody who disagrees with them is spoon-fed by the legacy media.

I don't trust anything I read or hear from any source at face value. If I read an article making a claim, I will review the source of their claim directly. I will read the peer reviewed articles, I will assess the data and methodology.

I've got a heap of degrees too, the material I learned completing them isn't relevant all that often (psych, health science, sociology, business), but the skills I learned in assessing the veracity of claims has proven far more useful. I try not to bring it up too often as these days formal education is often seen as a barrier to common sense by a good percentage of society.

As for Livine, she is a professor of paediatrics and psychiatry. I believe she also had a faily distinguished military career. I'm not aware of any reason why I shouldn't trust her but I've not read anything she's published and I've seen faily little of her talk so i don't have a strong opinion one way or another.

 

[bergholt]

As many have already said, for the general population it's a non issue, but is does keep us distracted from the real issues regarding the continual destruction of this country by forces that prefer to remain unseen. If you allow yourself to get pulled into things like the trans debate then you're already off track.

100% - as this thread proves!

In computer science there’s a concept called bike shedding:

Law of triviality - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

People spend way more time on issues that feel “simple” to them, even if they’re not actually important.

Which is how actually important but complex issues are sidelined. That’s exactly what’s happening in this thread.

Instead let’s talk about how the economy is going to work when there are 50% as many jobs because of the impact of AI.

 

[Yawkey way]

Anyway on to more important things UFC 209 Jones V Miocic. Who’s watching and who have you got your money on ? Jon Jones for me. He’s the best I’ve ever seen and I’ve been watching from the start.