Opinion The Rebuild Thread

[etsal1]

As it stands right now, reckon Shane Rogers and his team nailed the draft last year. Cripps, Giles & Holman - what a terrific result.

Still hold hope for Tommy Temay, so 2012 is looking good to me too.

 

[zeeCFC]

Still hold hope for Tommy Temay, so 2012 is looking good to me too.

He'd want to get a move on very quick.

 

[BlackGoanna]

What i like about Holman, Cripps and Graham is they are all unsociable footballers, get on with the job and will not get pushed around by more Senior players. I have seen them all at different times fire up at opponents, they are up for the fight which is encouraging. Out of our young group I am only expecting Cripps to play games this year.

Cripps needs 2 good pre-seasons to really make his mark in AFL. He isn't quick so will rely on elite endurance and strength. In saying that, needs to play 6 more senior games this year.

Graham has low penetration and tends to kick over his shoulder to often. Unfortunately will not get Senior gigs until he learns how to distribute the ball to the outside runners and better understands his capabilities. At this stage he is not in front of Mclean.

Holman will spend the year in the 2nds developing his overall game and confidence. Another preseason and strong performances in the 2nd's should see him getting some games next year. Really likely type.

Giles, thought he would have shown more at this stage, still to early to make a call. Defintely a long term prospect at best.

Temay, love his speed, run and movement. Just does not get enough of the ball which is really frustrating. We really need this kid to kick on because he has all the physical attributes. He should be braining them at this level now. Needs a steady stream of consistently good games over the coming 4-5 weeks to justify senior opportunities. He could risk being cut if he does not stand up now.

Reynolds and Johnson will both be retained rookies. Both have allot of all round work ahead of them but early signs are promising.

 

[Jeremias]

What i like about Holman, Cripps and Graham is they are all unsociable footballers, get on with the job and will not get pushed around by more Senior players. I have seen them all at different times fire up at opponents, they are up for the fight which is encouraging. Out of our young group I am only expecting Cripps to play games this year.

Cripps needs 2 good pre-seasons to really make his mark in AFL. He isn't quick so will rely on elite endurance and strength. In saying that, needs to play 6 more senior games this year.

Graham has low penetration and tends to kick over his shoulder to often. Unfortunately will not get Senior gigs until he learns how to distribute the ball to the outside runners and better understands his capabilities. At this stage he is not in front of Mclean.

Holman will spend the year in the 2nds developing his overall game and confidence. Another preseason and strong performances in the 2nd's should see him getting some games next year. Really likely type.

Giles, thought he would have shown more at this stage, still to early to make a call. Defintely a long term prospect at best.

Temay, love his speed, run and movement. Just does not get enough of the ball which is really frustrating. We really need this kid to kick on because he has all the physical attributes. He should be braining them at this level now. Needs a steady stream of consistently good games over the coming 4-5 weeks to justify senior opportunities. He could risk being cut if he does not stand up now.

Reynolds and Johnson will both be retained rookies. Both have allot of all round work ahead of them but early signs are promising.

Good post but I'm surprised by the summary of Giles.

What exactly were you expecting from his first month or so at VFL level?

 

[Wickzki]

Giles, thought he would have shown more at this stage, still to early to make a call. Defintely a long term prospect at best.

Really? We're two months into the season and he's a first year KP from South Australia. Massive learning curve year for him this year both on and off the field. Don't expect to pump him up too much until he goes through his second preseason.

 

[zeeCFC]

If it were up to me I'd bring Temay in this week and tell him to tag Montagna. Has a good engine and could learn what's required of a gut running mid.

 

[Silvagnis]

Really? We're two months into the season and he's a first year KP from South Australia. Massive learning curve year for him this year both on and off the field. Don't expect to pump him up too much until he goes through his second preseason.

Good post but I'm surprised by the summary of Giles.

What exactly were you expecting from his first month or so at VFL level?

Damn it!

I had this erudite reply lined up...





Or...

I guess Giles need to lift. Pies are already calling Langdon a bargain after Hine overlooked him in the 2012 draft. FIGJAM traded a pick for Russell. Hine has done it again.

 

[HBF]

Still hold hope for Tommy Temay, so 2012 is looking good to me too.

So do I.
Saw him play his best game for the NB's out of Princes Park in round 1 of the VFL.
Just needs to play constant footy and string these sort of games together.

 

[zeeCFC]

Should have picked Featherstone! Sakc Wayne Hughes!

 

[BlueJet]

Should have picked Featherstone! Sakc Wayne Hughes!

The one from Pascoe Vale/Coburg?

 

[Buckley2Menzel]

From purely a talent perspective, best 22 vs best 22, how far behind the great clubs are we? As an example, compared to Hawthorn i feel like the only areas we fall behind in is our KPD, experience in our depth players, and versatility. I don't think a total "re-build" is necessary to fix that. If we could recruit a high class KPD (would love frawley, but don't think we could get him with all the other teams chasing him) like Hansen, some experienced low-cost veteran FA's to add to our depth, and draft well again, I would feel pretty confident matching our list with anybody's. Our problem goes beyond talent, for some reason we aren't putting 100% effort into games (or so it looks) and just making dumb decisions. I feel like Mick would have made more impact in that area by now, but i do believe things will turn around with him shouting orders. Another offseason like the one we just had, and a kick up the butt from Mick, and i think we are good! Or am I being a completely biased and hopeful Blues fan???

 

[Juddys_navy_blues]

Where is Watson at atm? I know he is playing for the NB atm but i personally beleive that he is/was a waste of our 1st round pick, apart from a booming kick he hasnt got alot going for him, i hope people/watson can prove me very wrong but i dont see him as a contested pack mark, he is Very slow, has the turning circle of the Titanic and has no closeing speed. IMO Watson is turning into a dud 1st round pick ala Luke Livingston. I really hope Matthew proves me wrong but have a feeling he is turning into another KPP that we have wasted a pick on like Hartlett, Mitchell and McCarthey. Can anyone give me other reasons to beleive different to what i do. Thanks JnB's..

 

[BIGGUS 64]

From purely a talent perspective, best 22 vs best 22, how far behind the great clubs are we? As an example, compared to Hawthorn i feel like the only areas we fall behind in is our KPD, experience in our depth players, and versatility. I don't think a total "re-build" is necessary to fix that. If we could recruit a high class KPD (would love frawley, but don't think we could get him with all the other teams chasing him) like Hansen, some experienced low-cost veteran FA's to add to our depth, and draft well again, I would feel pretty confident matching our list with anybody's. Our problem goes beyond talent, for some reason we aren't putting 100% effort into games (or so it looks) and just making dumb decisions. I feel like Mick would have made more impact in that area by now, but i do believe things will turn around with him shouting orders. Another offseason like the one we just had, and a kick up the butt from Mick, and i think we are good! Or am I being a completely biased and hopeful Blues fan???

Yes! But you say that like it's a bad thing!

 

[T2B_]

From purely a talent perspective, best 22 vs best 22, how far behind the great clubs are we? As an example, compared to Hawthorn i feel like the only areas we fall behind in is our KPD, experience in our depth players, and versatility. I don't think a total "re-build" is necessary to fix that. If we could recruit a high class KPD (would love frawley, but don't think we could get him with all the other teams chasing him) like Hansen, some experienced low-cost veteran FA's to add to our depth, and draft well again, I would feel pretty confident matching our list with anybody's. Our problem goes beyond talent, for some reason we aren't putting 100% effort into games (or so it looks) and just making dumb decisions. I feel like Mick would have made more impact in that area by now, but i do believe things will turn around with him shouting orders. Another offseason like the one we just had, and a kick up the butt from Mick, and i think we are good! Or am I being a completely biased and hopeful Blues fan???

Nice username

 

[forwardflanker]

From purely a talent perspective, best 22 vs best 22, how far behind the great clubs are we? As an example, compared to Hawthorn i feel like the only areas we fall behind in is our KPD, experience in our depth players, and versatility. I don't think a total "re-build" is necessary to fix that. If we could recruit a high class KPD (would love frawley, but don't think we could get him with all the other teams chasing him) like Hansen, some experienced low-cost veteran FA's to add to our depth, and draft well again, I would feel pretty confident matching our list with anybody's. Our problem goes beyond talent, for some reason we aren't putting 100% effort into games (or so it looks) and just making dumb decisions. I feel like Mick would have made more impact in that area by now, but i do believe things will turn around with him shouting orders. Another offseason like the one we just had, and a kick up the butt from Mick, and i think we are good! Or am I being a completely biased and hopeful Blues fan???

Players like Robinson, White, Ellard, Rowe, Lucas, McLean and Belle wouldn't be on Hawthorn's list let alone their best 22. There is a huge difference between the talent of the teams at the moment in almost every aspect. Hawthorn is an interesting team to compare with though given where they came from. There is a lot of merit to offloading Gibbs and recharging with key position players in a draft which is very strong on these players in a similar manner to the way Hawthorn did in the Tambling draft. You only need 2-3 really strong drafts to set a team up for a decade. Administrators at Carlton need to risks to get the reward imo. If not then I think its going to be a long haul.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Players like Robinson, White, Ellard, Rowe, Lucas, McLean and Belle wouldn't be on Hawthorn's list let alone their best 22. There is a huge difference between the talent of the teams at the moment in almost every aspect. Hawthorn is an interesting team to compare with though given where they came from. There is a lot of merit to offloading Gibbs and recharging with key position players in a draft which is very strong on these players in a similar manner to the way Hawthorn did in the Tambling draft. You only need 2-3 really strong drafts to set a team up for a decade. Administrators at Carlton need to risks to get the reward imo. If not then I think its going to be a long haul.

Have to disagree; I see guys like Garlett as the ones who wouldn't be on their list. The first time you skirt around an oncoming player & stick one arm out to tackle is the last time you'd get a game.

 

[Jeremias]

Players like Robinson, White, Ellard, Rowe, Lucas, McLean and Belle wouldn't be on Hawthorn's list let alone their best 22. There is a huge difference between the talent of the teams at the moment in almost every aspect. Hawthorn is an interesting team to compare with though given where they came from. There is a lot of merit to offloading Gibbs and recharging with key position players in a draft which is very strong on these players in a similar manner to the way Hawthorn did in the Tambling draft. You only need 2-3 really strong drafts to set a team up for a decade. Administrators at Carlton need to risks to get the reward imo. If not then I think its going to be a long haul.

You're right.

Spahgher, Puopolo, Cheney, Shiels and Simpkin are all superstars.



The day people start to recognize that it's not just about the talent of the player but how they fit into the system, is the day their opinions are worth something.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

You're right.

Spahgher, Puopolo, Cheney, Shiels and Simpkin are all superstars.



The day people start to recognize that it's not just about the talent of the player but how they fit into the system, is the day their opinions are worth something.

Spot on. You just have to look at all the Grand Final teams from the last ten years and you can soon see how many average players have won premierships.

 

[forwardflanker]

You're right.

Spahgher, Puopolo, Cheney, Shiels and Simpkin are all superstars.



The day people start to recognize that it's not just about the talent of the player but how they fit into the system, is the day their opinions are worth something.

All 5 of those players would be certain selections at Carlton at the moment imo, even Spangher (who isn't as bad as people think). Whereas at Hawthorn only Shiels and Puopolo would get games in a final. Do you seriously believe that there is not much difference between the talent of the two lists? I mean I can understand where your coming from but even if Carlton played a perfect team game this still wouldn't come close to overcoming the difference in talent (same would be the case for everyone bar the top 4-5 clubs at this stage imo)

 

[forwardflanker]

Have to disagree; I see guys like Garlett as the ones who wouldn't be on their list. The first time you skirt around an oncoming player & stick one arm out to tackle is the last time you'd get a game.

Perhaps but their player development is one of the best in the comp and there is plenty to work with there in terms of talent. It could work the other way and Garlett becomes the top small forward in the comp

 

[Silvagnis]

All 5 of those players would be certain selections at Carlton at the moment imo, even Spangher (who isn't as bad as people think). Whereas at Hawthorn only Shiels and Puopolo would get games in a final.

You're looking for the main board where talking up another side's role players as stars is common place.

 

[forwardflanker]

You're looking for the main board where talking up another side's role players as stars is common place.

Far from it. I can't stand the way Puopolo goes about it and don't think he is very good at all. The reality is though he keeps on getting a game in a very good team so he must be doing something they value. Shiels I do think is a bit underrated in that he's a role player who can also find the ball a bit. I think most non-Hawthorn supporters write him off as a dud unfairly. Definitely not a star though

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Far from it. I can't stand the way Puopolo goes about it and don't think he is very good at all. The reality is though he keeps on getting a game in a very good team so he must be doing something they value. Shiels I do think is a bit underrated in that he's a role player who can also find the ball a bit. I think most non-Hawthorn supporters write him off as a dud unfairly. Definitely not a star though

Puopolo's work rate and pressure skills are elite, gets to multiple contests and battles his heart out to win the ball back when it is in dispute.

Would love Garlett to have the same traits.

 

[Magruder]

Puopolo's work rate and pressure skills are elite, gets to multiple contests and battles his heart out to win the ball back when it is in dispute.

Would love Garlett to have the same traits.

Can't like this enough

 

[Silvagnis]

Far from it. I can't stand the way Puopolo goes about it and don't think he is very good at all. The reality is though he keeps on getting a game in a very good team so he must be doing something they value. Shiels I do think is a bit underrated in that he's a role player who can also find the ball a bit. I think most non-Hawthorn supporters write him off as a dud unfairly. Definitely not a star though

Meh. Puopolol is a hard working defensive player like Armfield who chases hard, doesn't squib contests and has speed. Role player. Cost them a game against the Cats after he tried to soccer a goal in mid-air.

I would hate to see Schoenmakers how would go in our backline or forwardline. We don't support our defenders and set up our forwardline like the Hawks.