The Richard Pratt Cup - Carlton v Collingwood

[richardnose]

have carlton ever named anything after a person who played football ?

 

[Gavin Excell]

I think its Eddie and Collingwood who have come out looking worse over all this.

This has the potential for real embarassment for Carlton too. Particularly if Colligwood wins and are offered the cup, the sound of boos echoing around the stadium is not what Carlton will want befitting of their hero.

 

[richardnose]

even leaving aside pratt's dodginess, surely this sets a new low for honouring contributions toward the game ?

pratt became prez very late in his life and as i recall, reluctantly, and had to be lobbied hard to agree. he didn't spend very long in the role anyway. aside from cash, i don't see the great legacy. it'd be like richmond having an alan bond cup or st kilda having a rod butterss cup. it's just tacky. he wasn't a great football person by any measure. if you have to honour him then build a bloody statue behind the john elliott stand or something and have the gumption to call your cup doull or southby or something.

 

[Gavin Excell]

even leaving aside pratt's dodginess, surely this sets a new low for honouring contributions toward the game ?

pratt became prez very late in his life and as i recall, reluctantly, and had to be lobbied hard to agree. he didn't spend very long in the role anyway. aside from cash, i don't see the great legacy. it'd be like richmond having an alan bond cup or st kilda having a rod butterss cup. it's just tacky. he wasn't a great football person by any measure. if you have to honour him then build a bloody statue behind the john elliott stand or something and have the gumption to call your cup doull or southby or something.

excellent point. 2-3 years of contribution.

its all about the money.

 

[Bosun]

excellent point. 2-3 years of contribution.

its all about the money.

Pratt was actually quite annoyed that the key figures at the time only asked for his money, never for his ideas. He accepted the presidency under some strict conditions.

Anyway, this whole thing is a disgrace. All up for raising $$ for prostate cancer research after seeing my old man battle his way through it, but to have a a game such as Collingwood/Carlton play for this "cup" is beyond belief. Collingwood/Carlton play for the rivalry, the 4 points, the bragging rights and the history.

More than happy for cash to go towards a good cause but Pratt is all Carlton, nothing to do with Collingwood and I completely understand why some of their (Pies) fans are so pissed off.

 

[Valve Bounce]

I think most of us are astonished at the reason given to honour a man of questionable morality just because he donated generously to charity and medical science and his footy club a small part of his ill gotten gains.

This just about sums it up.

 

[mediumsizered]

even leaving aside pratt's dodginess, surely this sets a new low for honouring contributions toward the game ?

pratt became prez very late in his life and as i recall, reluctantly, and had to be lobbied hard to agree. he didn't spend very long in the role anyway. aside from cash, i don't see the great legacy. it'd be like richmond having an alan bond cup or st kilda having a rod butterss cup. it's just tacky. he wasn't a great football person by any measure. if you have to honour him then build a bloody statue behind the john elliott stand or something and have the gumption to call your cup doull or southby or something.

Pratt's association with the club lasted for more than 50 years, from his time as an Under 19 & reserves player (during which time he won the Morrish Medal for B & F in the Under 19 competition) to his financial contributions over a number of years (not just for the period he was club president) & previous time on the board & as a member of coterie groups.

I have no problem with posters questioning the rationale behind the awarding of The Richard Pratt Cup for Carlton/Collingwood games, but don't go making comments about something which you clearly know nothing about, ie Pratt's association with our club.

 

[refresh]

believe me i'd like some silverware, but not this one

 

[j-ham]

Well done Richard Pratt - Giving Collingwood ferals the shits from beyond the grave!

 

[Upgrayedd]

Dick pratt has singly given more to the country, economy and charities than all of you posters on this forum put together. Whilst he was sick (at stages barely even understanding what's going on) his company was found to be price fixing.

While he was sick he was found guilty? he was in fairly good health when he copped the 36 million dollar fine, And he would of copped more if the laws permitted it, Hell he would of ended up in jail

Overall he ripped everyone in australia off to the tune of about 35 dollars, Times that by 20 million, and it probably is a bit more money then he sunk into charity

If i wanted to be really crass, how much of his charity work would of given him tax benifits, causing him to retain some money, PLUS cheating everyone out of $35 illegally is not helping the economy...

Plus, The football communiuty? he just sunk a whole heap of cash into his favourite team to get them out of a hole they dug themselves when they were found out cheating

I doubt Eddie could of said no, I bet he was fine with the donation, but imagine him knocking back the :dick pratt cup" which is raising money for cancer research? he would of been absolutly hounded in the media

Im sorry, I cant see why people would put the Bloke in good light, After all he's ripped you off about 30 dollars or more. Every freaking person who purchases products,

My parents own a business which relys on cardboard boxes, My parents started absolutly struggling when box prices started to rise and pushed my family to breaking point and caused my dad to start feeling depressed and hit some major financial strain, im sorry if i dont Worship him because he decided some private jewish schools needed the money more then a small struggling indipendant business.

Not only for my family, but oither small businesses he would hurt, probably ran a few out of business, why would you look up to a bloke who illegally caused financial hardship on small business, consumers and whatnot? Oh yeah He gave Carlton a blank Cheque Unless your a public figure where you cant say your true feelings or a carlton supporter, i doubt he has many friends

 

[Plogs]

Pratt was actually quite annoyed that the key figures at the time only asked for his money, never for his ideas. He accepted the presidency under some strict conditions.

Anyway, this whole thing is a disgrace. All up for raising $$ for prostate cancer research after seeing my old man battle his way through it, but to have a a game such as Collingwood/Carlton play for this "cup" is beyond belief. Collingwood/Carlton play for the rivalry, the 4 points, the bragging rights and the history.

More than happy for cash to go towards a good cause but Pratt is all Carlton, nothing to do with Collingwood and I completely understand why some of their (Pies) fans are so pissed off.

This has to be the post which "us" & "them" agree on. Top stuff.

 

[mediumsizered]

While he was sick he was found guilty? he was in fairly good health when he copped the 36 million dollar fine, And he would of copped more if the laws permitted it, Hell he would of ended up in jail

Overall he ripped everyone in australia off to the tune of about 35 dollars, Times that by 20 million, and it probably is a bit more money then he sunk into charity

If i wanted to be really crass, how much of his charity work would of given him tax benifits, causing him to retain some money, PLUS cheating everyone out of $35 illegally is not helping the economy...

Plus, The football communiuty? he just sunk a whole heap of cash into his favourite team to get them out of a hole they dug themselves when they were found out cheating

I doubt Eddie could of said no, I bet he was fine with the donation, but imagine him knocking back the :dick pratt cup" which is raising money for cancer research? he would of been absolutly hounded in the media

Im sorry, I cant see why people would put the Bloke in good light, After all he's ripped you off about 30 dollars or more. Every freaking person who purchases products,

My parents own a business which relys on cardboard boxes, My parents started absolutly struggling when box prices started to rise and pushed my family to breaking point and caused my dad to start feeling depressed and hit some major financial strain, im sorry if i dont Worship him because he decided some private jewish schools needed the money more then a small struggling indipendant business.

Not only for my family, but oither small businesses he would hurt, probably ran a few out of business, why would you look up to a bloke who illegally caused financial hardship on small business, consumers and whatnot? Oh yeah He gave Carlton a blank Cheque Unless your a public figure where you cant say your true feelings or a carlton supporter, i doubt he has many friends

You have made most of this up. Let me set you straight on some things. Richard Pratt already had prostate cancer at the time of the civil action brought against him by the ACCC. That doesn't justify what Visy was found guilty of, but is a fact.

Richard Pratt did not rip every Australian off "to the tune of about 35 dollars". This figure you are quoting refers to the potential class action being brought against both Visy & Amcor, with the solicitors involved speculating about a potential $700 million payout to those bringing the class action.

Your implication that Pratt only made charity donations for the tax benefits could be applied to every single Australian who lists such donations on their tax returns. In fact you could even draw the implication that Warren Buffett & Bill Gates, among others, are only making donations to charity for the tax benefits. A rather cynical view I would've thought.

The football community? Yes Pratt made significant contributions to the Carlton Football Club, but he has also made significant contribution to football in the Northern Territory & has contributed to the funding for the participation of a NT team in the QAFL.

As for your parents' business starting to struggle when box prices started to rise, I think you have made this up as well. There is no concrete evidence that the price fixing by Visy & Amcor actually led to price increases. What it did do is ensure that the stronger Visy did not force prices down with a view to squeezing Amcor & ultimately 'stealing' Amcor's customers.

As an ex-small business operator I could understand your parents' struggle under the perceived barrage of price rises/increased taxes/charges etc, but sometimes it is not so much price rises that cause the struggle, rather the failure to continually improve business practices to maintain, or even increase your profitability.

 

[Total_Juddshanks]

I would have thought Pratt would be deadset opposed to the idea of something involving competition carrying his name.

If they really wanted to honour the spirit of the great man, the Collingwood and Carlton captains will sit down together prior to the game and agree arrange for both to kick an identical, mutually acceptable number of goals, and split the gate takings between them.

 

[greennick]

I would have thought Pratt would be deadset opposed to the idea of something involving competition carrying his name.

If they really wanted to honour the spirit of the great man, the Collingwood and Carlton captains will sit down together prior to the game and agree arrange for both to kick an identical, mutually acceptable number of goals, and split the gate takings between them.

Haha

 

[SirJimi05]

Dick pratt has singly given more to the country, economy and charities than all of you posters on this forum put together. Whilst he was sick (at stages barely even understanding what's going on) his company was found to be price fixing.

You might want to put it in context there mate. I give around $1000 a year to cancer charities mainly due to the fact that i have lost a number of family members to cancer and i can assure you that these donations affect me a lot more than Mr. Pratt's generous donations. Does this make me 'a great man'? Of course it doesn't! Lets not also lose sight of the fact that donations are tax deductions. At the end of the day it is great that he gave so much money to different types of charities but please pull your finger out of your arse and see it for what it is. No point trying to take us all for fools.

And unless you can provide us with a link proving your last statement i will assume you are blatantly lying to us.

Back on topic, i have always admired Eddie but in the last few years i think he has started to lose the plot. I can understand the anger of all Pie supporters on this one.

 

[Donakebab]

Will the cup be made of Visy cardboard in honour of Dick? I hope it rains.



A verse should be made for you Dick, you're such a top bloke now!

[youtube]hLVsIpejFgM[/youtube]

 

[Rohan25]

Just when you thought things couldn't get any sillier, now this, what a disgrace.
Collingwood supporters should be understandably ropeable.

Why not the " John Elliot Cup" ? equally as demeaning to the game.

And tune in next week when Collingwood and Brisbane face off for the "Christopher Skase cup".

 

[The Fireman]

This is one of your most fanciful obsession driven posts Firey. On what basis is this a Carlton issue for us to have shame over? Pratt did a lot for the club, they were looking for a way to honour him. They came up with a worthy charity, as evidenced by Ted Whitten's comments. They ASKED Collingwood and Collingwood said yes.

If Collingwood thought it was inappropriate, then they should say NO.

If there is anything overly questionable about it, it would be in Collingwood failing to anticipate the will of their members. Carlton are just honouring someone who did something for them, as is their right. Perhaps you think Carlton should consult opposition supporters on BigFooty to get their approval first.

Carlton would be best served to keep Pratt tributes within the club, but there is certainly nothing there for the club to be ashamed of.

You are almost an overstated caricature of yourself these days with the rehashed criticisms with little other discussion points.

my reply to this post was removed, was it because I complained of the op being personal ?

 

[richardnose]

Pratt's association with the club lasted for more than 50 years, from his time as an Under 19 & reserves player (during which time he won the Morrish Medal for B & F in the Under 19 competition) to his financial contributions over a number of years (not just for the period he was club president) & previous time on the board & as a member of coterie groups.

I have no problem with posters questioning the rationale behind the awarding of The Richard Pratt Cup for Carlton/Collingwood games, but don't go making comments about something which you clearly know nothing about, ie Pratt's association with our club.

sorry mate, i didn't realise he'd won the under 19s B&F and played in the 2s. that makes all the difference. clearly a club legend.

 

[richardnose]

my reply to this post was removed, was it because I complained of the op being personal ?

i have wondered who mods the mods.

 

[mediumsizered]

sorry mate, i didn't realise he'd won the under 19s B&F and played in the 2s. that makes all the difference. clearly a club legend.

Nice that you choose to ignore his long term association with the club off the field as well. This is so typically BF. If the facts don't fit your argument rely on a bit of poetic licence to get you through.

 

[richardnose]

any reasonably large organisation like an afl footy club has marketing and brand managers who carefully manage how their image and brand is presented to the public. particularly given carlton's recent history of salary cap cheating, john elliot, judd's bogus visy deal and so on, it's telling that carlton have endorsed this.

most (or all) other clubs would have done something in-house. if they wanted to honour an ex-president who had recently been found guilty of corruption, they would have used something low key and at the very least, it would have been an internal club award. they would have allowed the memory (at least publicly) to die down a bit and they would have publicly disassociated their club brand with one the country's biggest crooks.

that carlton have shamelessly chosen to go down this path on one of the biggest footy stages, suggests that they're quite comfortable with their brand being permanently associated with corruption and cheating. that the pies agreed to go along, suggests that their leadership is out of touch with public opinion.

 

[richardnose]

Nice that you choose to ignore his long term association with the club off the field as well. This is so typically BF. If the facts don't fit your argument rely on a bit of poetic licence to get you through.

sorry mate, thought it was obvious. my dad has followed the pies for 70 years but we're not playing for his cup.

 

[Valve Bounce]

As for your parents' business starting to struggle when box prices started to rise, I think you have made this up as well. There is no concrete evidence that the price fixing by Visy & Amcor actually led to price increases. What it did do is ensure that the stronger Visy did not force prices down with a view to squeezing Amcor & ultimately 'stealing' Amcor's customers.

Not true! The price fixer did force the price of all cardboard containers up a very significant amount.

You are in dreamland if you believe otherwise. And please, don't ask me to give you any proof - go do your own research. I found out when I had to go buy cardboard boxes to pack my goods to ship home.

 

[Valve Bounce]

I would have thought Pratt would be deadset opposed to the idea of something involving competition carrying his name.

If they really wanted to honour the spirit of the great man, the Collingwood and Carlton captains will sit down together prior to the game and agree arrange for both to kick an identical, mutually acceptable number of goals, and split the gate takings between them.

.................and the bookies payout on the drawn result.