Rumour The Thread formerly known as the rumour file, now with zero rumours

[Mister Carlton]

3 way trade

Dawes: Melbourne
Warnock: Collingwood
Pick 20: Carlton

STAHP.

 

[gbatman]

This.

The obsession with trading Warnock or Hampson is doing my head in. If we're honest though, Kreuzer needs a big year. I actually think Hampson is a better ruckman than Kreuze when he gets the opportunity to ruck alone, and is more dangerous up forward. Kreuzer is obviously far more valuable in terms of his bullocking work at ground level.

This will no doubt be an unpopular opinion, but I honestly feel that Kreuzer should be a candidate for demotion next year if he doesn't improve his output (I acknowledge that his knee injury has had a lot to do with the sub-par performances). Being a number one pick will save him obviously. To be honest though, the jury is out on his actual ruckwork, and he is diabolical when resting forward. LOVE his courage, pressure and repeat efforts, but he needs to really start imposing himself on the game as a ruckman - not as a big mid - if he's going to warrant keeping Hammer/Knockers out of the side.

In his defence, Kreuzer's attitude is club fabric stuff, and dropping him would probably trigger a mutiny, both internal and external. I just hope he can furnish into the player we know he can be in 2013.

None of what you said is wrong but I still recon the verdict is well and truely out on Kreuzer. Watching him play live and really watching him, particularly in the last game of the season I noticed that his work rate and how much ground he covered was very low. He hardly left the center square in the last game against the Saints. He hasn't got great hands. He does fumble a bit and drop marks a bit but he's generally pretty good and likely hasn't done the training he normally would do this year to keep those skills neat. He's not a natural body on body mark but he's a good competator around the ground and has a capacity to cover the ground to get to enough contests and get lose enough but he wasn't doing it this season. Perhaps that is due to an injury.

The Key to Kreuzer's game is his ability to run and cover a lot of ground and his ability to follow up when the ball is cleared from stoppages. When he doesn't have that ability he's just an ordinary player and he didn't have that ability this year.

 

[Silvagnis]

Are you saying that Carlton may have signed Warnock to a 3 year contract, to make him appear to be more valuable than he actually is?

LOL.

Please.

Echoes of starchamber.

 

[gbatman]

Are you saying that Carlton may have signed Warnock to a 3 year contract, to make him appear to be more valuable than he actually is?

LOL.

Please.

There is a chance, his trade value would be around a 4th round or maybe a 3rd round pick if he was left uncontracted and we went hard at offloading him. Clubs would be well and truly onto that. Had we done that it sends a clear message that his body is no good. We put him on three years and clubs might start to think "why would they sign him for three years if his body is shot". I think we need to first appear that we want to retain him before looking for a trade. It might distract from the fact that he's played 58 games in 7 seasons of football. Maybe. Then again there is always the chance that we genuinely believe that he is going to come good and be a long term prospect for us. It does seem a little strange that a guy with his history, after another season where he hardly played a game, is put on a three year contract. Then again there could be performance clauses in amongst that which we don't know of.

 

[Wickzki]

Echoes of starchamber.

Not all contracts is spuds.

 

[Wickzki]

There is a chance, his trade value would be around a 4th round or maybe a 3rd round pick if he was left uncontracted and we went hard at offloading him. Clubs would be well and truly onto that. Had we done that it sends a clear message that his body is no good. We put him on three years and clubs might start to think "why would they sign him for three years if his body is shot". I think we need to first appear that we want to retain him before looking for a trade. It might distract from the fact that he's played 58 games in 7 seasons of football. Maybe. Then again there is always the chance that we genuinely believe that he is going to come good and be a long term prospect for us. It does seem a little strange that a guy with his history, after another season where he hardly played a game, is put on a three year contract. Then again there could be performance clauses in amongst that which we don't know of.

Or maybe they've seen what he can do when he is fully firing in AFL Finals (re: Essendon last year) and are given him fair market value?

We're not going to give him an inflated contract if his body is shot. We're not in the business of trolling the other 17 AFL clubs.

We signed him with the intention of keeping him but have the mindset that if we were offered something that would improve our team that he is not untouchable.

For what it's worth, if we were to attempt to trade him he would have to pass the acquiring team's physical assessment. Warnock has a well publicized medical history. Opposition clubs would know exactly what medical tests that he had to satisfactorily pass before completing the trade. They would do their due diligence.

 

[Kramer1]

None of what you said is wrong but I still recon the verdict is well and truely out on Kreuzer. Watching him play live and really watching him, particularly in the last game of the season I noticed that his work rate and how much ground he covered was very low. He hardly left the center square in the last game against the Saints.

So he had particularly poor work rate in the game in which he recorded 44 hit outs (one less than his career high), and ranked second highest on the team stat sheet for both clearances and one percenters. Must have been a hell of a lot of stoppages in the square.

Was also at the game. MK was one of few who seemed to be taking the dead rubber seriously. Have no idea how or why you dream up some of this stuff.

 

[Blue Flame]

So he had particularly poor work rate in the game in which he recorded 44 hit outs (one less than his career high), and ranked second highest on the team stat sheet for both clearances and one percenters. Must have been a hell of a lot of stoppages in the square.

Was also at the game. MK was one of few who seemed to be taking the dead rubber seriously. Have no idea how or why you dream up some of this stuff.

Yeah, he was fairly colossal in that game, it was a sign for me of how he could go as the sole ruckman. He needs to get his pace back though, he is certainly struggling a bit. Would love someone to show him how to ragdoll the opposition in a marking contest too. Then he would be everything.

 

[HARKER]

Yeah, he was fairly colossal in that game, it was a sign for me of how he could go as the sole ruckman. He needs to get his pace back though, he is certainly struggling a bit. Would love someone to show him how to ragdoll the opposition in a marking contest too. Then he would be everything.

There has been a suggestion that Kreuzer is suffering from a degenerative hip condition.

We'll see whether he heads off to Arizona as Mick wants everyone there.

 

[Weiterbot23]

There has been a suggestion that Kreuzer is suffering from a degenerative hip condition.

We'll see whether he heads off to Arizona as Mick wants everyone there.

I thought kreuz's hip was just sort of over grown and the bone had to be shaved ever couple of years, and that we knew this when he drafted him.

 

[Kramer1]

I thought kreuz's hip was just sort of over grown and the bone had to be shaved ever couple of years, and that we knew this when he drafted him.

So it is actually a generative hip condition?

 

[Weiterbot23]

So it is actually a generative hip condition?

True, there is plently of hip to go around!

Pretty sure Hodge (the cricketer) has always had it aswell.

My understanding is that is nothing to be concerned about, but I read this when he was drafted.

 

[Sheephead]

There has been a suggestion that Kreuzer is suffering from a degenerative hip condition.

We'll see whether he heads off to Arizona as Mick wants everyone there.

Its more the fact that he has calcification growing on the joint (both ball and socket areas) in the form of cam lesions which are sometimes referred to as rheumatoid arthritis or alike of the joint. He, along with maybe 80% of the community 'could' get a 'cleanout' or if it becomes worse he may need a hip replacement, when he is 50-60 yo. The 'injury' to use a better word is prevalent in so many but is generally kept watch for young elite athletes as they compund the injury more with their level of sport and contact injury. Again it makes it worse for further down the road, rather than right now. Why do I know this? Just saw my surgeon on Friday for pre-op briefing for same thing. Far from elite athlete am I now. 45yo spud, with hip soreness.

 

[Stamos]

Sheephead, good luck.
Stay off the panadene forte after the op

 

[HARKER]

Its more the fact that he has calcification growing on the joint (both ball and socket areas) in the form of cam lesions which are sometimes referred to as rheumatoid arthritis or alike of the joint. He, along with maybe 80% of the community 'could' get a 'cleanout' or if it becomes worse he may need a hip replacement, when he is 50-60 yo. The 'injury' to use a better word is prevalent in so many but is generally kept watch for young elite athletes as they compund the injury more with their level of sport and contact injury. Again it makes it worse for further down the road, rather than right now. Why do I know this? Just saw my surgeon on Friday for pre-op briefing for same thing. Far from elite athlete am I now. 45yo spud, with hip soreness.

You've made me laugh.

All the best for your op and Kreuzer has nothing to worry about, as in 20 years time they'll have a 5 minute hip replacements done at David Jones with a coffee thrown in.

 

[zeeCFC]

Get Sheephead!

 

[albyg]

The only way I'd take that deal is if Collingwood gave us pick 17 or 18 as well.

Wow, you and a few others need a reality check. You want two first round picks for a player who was third in line behind Kreuzer and Hampson at the start of the year. Wake up and smell the roses!

Yes we might be helping out Collingwood, but we will also be helping ourselves, pick 20 (IMO is overs btw)could land us a star in a pool that runs deep this year. Or dare I say we swap Warnock for Dawes straight swap, both are solid players in their position without being superstars, good swap.

I do not want Carlton to become one of those clubs that no-one can deal with.

 

[Sheephead]

Get Sheephead!

Mate, I've been taken that many steroid injections I could kick 75+ off the right, but unfortunately only 15 off the left....and that's me good leg. I'll need a hip replacement soon enough. Not because I 'm an elite athlete, though I have been compared to Grenville Dietrich a few times, but mainly coz me legs can't hold me beer gut up any longer. I'm the best damn couch potato/spud I know. Just ask the minister for war and finance. I'm a major stakeholder in CUB and Foxtel too. I'm impotent....I mean important. CFC ain't ready for me just yet...

 

[Stamos]

I do not want Carlton to become one of those clubs that no-one can deal with.

Depends what form it takes.
There is the Essendon way, where they want to get a good player in without paying for him,
or you could be club where somebody else asks for a required player and you tell them "No".

Warnock is a required player. Therefore, you would only trade him out if the deal was too good to refuse.
Pick 20 odd for him to go to the Filth is not even close to to good to refuse.
And he wasn't third in line at the start of the year, he was recovering from shoulder surgery.

 

[Wickzki]

Mate, I've been taken that many steroid injections I could kick 75+ off the right, but unfortunately only 15 off the left....and that's me good leg. I'll need a hip replacement soon enough. Not because I 'm an elite athlete, though I have been compared to Grenville Dietrich a few times, but mainly coz me legs can't hold me beer gut up any longer. I'm the best damn couch potato/spud I know. Just ask the minister for war and finance. I'm a major stakeholder in CUB and Foxtel too. I'm impotent....I mean important. CFC ain't ready for me just yet...

8 posts in 3 years... Too damn few, I reckon.

 

[albyg]

Depends what form it takes.
There is the Essendon way, where they want to get a good player in without paying for him,
or you could be club where somebody else asks for a required player and you tell them "No".

Warnock is a required player. Therefore, you would only trade him out if the deal was too good to refuse.
Pick 20 odd for him to go to the Filth is not even close to to good to refuse.
And he wasn't third in line at the start of the year, he was recovering from shoulder surgery.

What about at the end of the year when he was behind Casboult and Kreuzer?

Pick 20 is heaps, I would take it and run.

 

[HARKER]

8 posts in 3 years... Too damn few, I reckon.

Can someone organize getting Sheephead's computer closer to him.
How's he supposed to post when his laptop is in the kitchen?

 

[HARKER]

What about at the end of the year when he was behind Casboult and Kreuzer?

Pick 20 is heaps, I would take it and run.

Warnock played injured until the plug was pulled on him. Thanks Cyril.

 

[coryne]

What about at the end of the year when he was behind Casboult and Kreuzer?

Pick 20 is heaps, I would take it and run.

When he was injured after the Rioli chicken wing tackle ?

 

[albyg]

Warnock played injured until the plug was pulled on him. Thanks Cyril.

Sorry my mistake, do you stil think he is third in line, I certainly do, so why not have a win win situation even if its with the filth.