Just quietly I'd love for Ratten to stay just to make all these dimwits in the media look like morons.
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Define 'something'. It took Malthouse 11 seasons to deliver at Collingwood. Thompson 8 seasons at Geelong.
Gave Curnow the okay to go back out on the field with a busted shoulder.3. Gave Austin the all clear to go back out on the field with a broken arm.
Gave Jamison the okay to go back out on the field with a buggered knee.
Yes, I agree that whatever is going on needs to be fixed. I don't know what the reason is for this, but it needs to be fixed. As I have stated, the club needs unity. I see your point about dropping players etc, and I can honestly say I don't know whether that would be effective.
What I do not understand is how they let themselves play a game that. I wish I could collect 300k a year for *not* doing my job.
Yeah... Just on that, forget coaches, can we have a new medical team? They seem fairly amateur.
Just quietly I would love Ratten to stay because:
(a) he is contracted for next year;
(b) he has developed more rookies into reasonable quality AFL players than any other coach of any other team: Ellard, Garlett, Jacobs, Tuohy, Bell, Casboult (and I like the look of Dale).
(c) he coached the team to important wins this year against Collingwood (twice), Richmond (twice) and Essendon once.
(d) the fact the players switched off against Gold Coast (who had 19 players missing from an underdeveloped list) tells me nothing about Ratten as a coach. I mean, did the players need a coach? The result just confirms a truism that "knowing you can't lose" is the one sure way in sport to cop a loss.
(e) before injuries started to bite (Carrazzo going down against Essendon) Carlton coached by Ratten were the Premiership favourites (so lots of punters put money on Ratten). He could coach then but not now? Go figure.
(f) he is not Mick Malthouse.
For lovers of history I well recall a final in 1994 where a full-strength Carlton took on an underdone Geelong missing Couch, Bairstow and Hocking. The Geelong second-stringers thrashed a full-strength (1995) premiership midfield ALL DAY at every clearance. These things happen. We need to learn from the Gold Coast experience and use it to motivate the players to take a win-at-all-costs attitude into every game they play (as Carlton did in 1995 - save for losses to lowly Sydney (who did not have a ruckman) and lowly St Kilda (it was a very cold wet day at Waverley). What we don't want to do is assume it was the coaches fault, sack him, and have to relearn from experience yet again.
(a) he is contracted for next year;
(b) he has developed more rookies into reasonable quality AFL players than any other coach of any other team: Ellard, Garlett, Jacobs, Tuohy, Bell, Casboult (and I like the look of Dale).
(c) he coached the team to important wins this year against Collingwood (twice), Richmond (twice) and Essendon once.
(d) the fact the players switched off against Gold Coast (who had 19 players missing from an underdeveloped list) tells me nothing about Ratten as a coach. I mean, did the players need a coach? The result just confirms a truism that "knowing you can't lose" is the one sure way in sport to cop a loss.
(e) before injuries started to bite (Carrazzo going down against Essendon) Carlton coached by Ratten were the Premiership favourites (so lots of punters put money on Ratten). He could coach then but not now? Go figure.
(f) he is not Mick Malthouse.
For lovers of history I well recall a final in 1994 where a full-strength Carlton took on an underdone Geelong missing Couch, Bairstow and Hocking. The Geelong second-stringers thrashed a full-strength (1995) premiership midfield ALL DAY at every clearance. These things happen. We need to learn from the Gold Coast experience and use it to motivate the players to take a win-at-all-costs attitude into every game they play (as Carlton did in 1995 - save for losses to lowly Sydney (who did not have a ruckman) and lowly St Kilda (it was a very cold wet day at Waverley). What we don't want to do is assume it was the coaches fault, sack him, and have to relearn from experience yet again.
- May 29, 2009
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Last year in the VFL.
The window would neither be opened wider or closed IMO. That you do not profess to know underlines how unimportant "the decision" is.
Thomas was sacked because (a) he insisted on running the place; (b) the Board, in particular his former good friend the President, could no longer stand his dogmatism; and (c) Thomas did not believe in the importance of ruckmen which left the saints seriously undermanned, particularly in big games, like finals.
Thank you for proving with such impeccable logic how unimportant the decision of whether to sack Ratts or not actually is. I stand corrected.
Also for informing me about the inner workings of the St Kilda footy club. Really opened my eyes.
Not knowing the outcome of the decision in no way negates the importance of said decision.
AndrewD
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Malthouse did a reasonable job at Footscray in his first few years. BUT he inherited a solid list that had been brought together by Bluey Hampshire (who only vacated the coaching job due to outside work commitments). After his first couple of years using that list his record dropped greatly and he couldn't build it up like Hampshire had done. At the Eagles he inherited a list that was absolutely chock-full of talent. Didn't need to build up the list, just had to wait till they had enough experience. Once that elite talent ebbed, he couldn't build the bloody list. Two premierships in 5 years then nothing for the next 5 at West Coast. At Collingwood it took him 11 years to win another flag. Yes, he got them into two other Grand Finals but that was on the strength of teams other people had built for him. The 2010 Grand Final (which Collingwood almost choked away) was the only one he built from scratch.
End of the day, I think Malthouse is hideously overrated as a coach. He snagged two gimme flags with a West Coast team that had been given so many bloody concessions by the AFL any half-decent coach could have won a couple of flags. Collingwood won the 2010 GF but choked so badly they could (and should) have lost it. Then the next year he couldn't control the player's egos (or his own) and they got smashed by Geelong. Also, if you look over his comments throughout the year, I just don't believe he has truly left Collingwood. The way he talks you just know he still wants to be coaching them and THAT should automatically exclude him from our job. I also don't like the sneaky way he's tried to use the media to push himself forward for the job and the veiled threat that if he doesn't get a gig next year, he won't coach again.Surely that's an indication he doesn't have enough energy for the long haul.
I believe we should let Ratts finish his contract and look for a new coach at the end of 2013. That will give us time to trim our list and completely rejig the leadership group (who are the ones I hold responsible for the Gold Coast fiasco). We can put another season in the young players and have them in much better shape when a new coach takes over. If the rumour is correct and Paul Roos will be available in 2014 he's the one we should go for. If not, I'd prefer we went for someone who has a reputation for building a list and handling young players- someone like Rodney Eade. He mightn't be as high profile but he has achieved solid results with a list far inferior to our own and nowhere near the same resources.
There's one question that needs to be asked (sorry if it already has), but has Ratts lost the players?
If he has, well then we all know the answer to that.
If he hasn't then why get rid of him?
We had some bloody huge outs through injury & suspension. If he had a full squad to choose from most weeks. I'm sure we would be sitting in the top 4 right now.
I have no issue what so ever with him saying we were aiming for T4, as a club you need to set goals and a T4 finish was not that much to aim for, after last year.
Would you people who are bagging him about this to prefer he came and said "I'm not sure where we will finish, we'll have to wait & see how we go with injuries and suspension"? you would all want him castrated if he said that.
Yes the GC game was a discrace, but the week before that we beat the scum by nearly 100 points.
Some people have very short memories.
If he has, well then we all know the answer to that.
If he hasn't then why get rid of him?
We had some bloody huge outs through injury & suspension. If he had a full squad to choose from most weeks. I'm sure we would be sitting in the top 4 right now.
I have no issue what so ever with him saying we were aiming for T4, as a club you need to set goals and a T4 finish was not that much to aim for, after last year.
Would you people who are bagging him about this to prefer he came and said "I'm not sure where we will finish, we'll have to wait & see how we go with injuries and suspension"? you would all want him castrated if he said that.
Yes the GC game was a discrace, but the week before that we beat the scum by nearly 100 points.
Some people have very short memories.
Blue Dawn
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yeah it is, I was insinuating that your shop was the usual CFC hairdresser....please excuse my sarcastic crack at your post, just sick to death of the rumours at the moment
Suggest you spend less time in the Rumour File thread then Dinger.
Now seems almost certain that MM will be at Carlton - and within 2 weeks at that. Feel really sorry for Ratts - has been shit out of luck this year but losing that game on Saturday was always going to be pure poison in the current circumstance - and rightly so.
As for MM, no doubt he has his weaknesses both as a coach and a person (don't we all?) but he's probably just the ultra-experienced, hard-ass that this list needs to HTFU mentally. We know their best is very good, they must now learn that this level of focus and discipline is required every week, whether playing a half-arsed Gold Coast team or a rampaging Hawks looking to steamroll over the top of us (again!!). We are serious about winning this bloody thing aren't we!?
We need someone brave enough to drop Gibbs next time he turns in one of those insipid performances - i think MM would certainly stick pretty thick to his 'non-negotiables'. Whether a fan or not, you've got to admit he carries 'authority'. Many of our blokes i suspect may benefit from receiving the message from a figure of greater authority right now.
As for Cloke - those who reject his capacity to instantly make us a genuine flag threat may be a little too focused on just his recent form or that innate Carltonian whispering, 'yeh but he's still a dumb-as-dog-shit himbo with a stupid bloody Angel Wings metaphor tatooed across his back'.
The bloke is clearly distracted - and even a little dispirited - right atm. He's been the best contested mark in the comp for years now - a true monster in the one-on-ones. Put him up forward with Waite, Eddie, Jeffy and AW1 and our structure is dynamic. He's also a truly durable player - another important ingredient our current playing list badly lacks at present.
Is he worth $1 mil p/a? No - probably not even based on 2011 form - but that extra $100-200K p/a is what's likely needed to see him out of Collingwood. Will he have a MASSIVE point to prove if he does move? You bet! Would any list management issues a move to Carlton may present be well and truly worth it IF his presence was to propel us to a flag in the next couple of years (before we lose Judd/Waite/Simmo/Scotto)? You betcha!!
- Jun 25, 2011
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I don't want to reveal my source - but I heard from someone reliable that Mick Malthouse has been linked to Carlton. Anyone else heard that?
Suggest you spend less time in the Rumour File thread then Dinger.
Now seems almost certain that MM will be at Carlton - and within 2 weeks at that. Feel really sorry for Ratts - has been shit out of luck this year but losing that game on Saturday was always going to be pure poison in the current circumstance - and rightly so.
As for MM, no doubt he has his weaknesses both as a coach and a person (don't we all?) but he's probably just the ultra-experienced, hard-arse that this list needs to HTFU mentally. We know their best is very good, they must now learn that this level of focus and discipline is required every week, whether playing a half-arsed Gold Coast team or a rampaging Hawks looking to steamroll over the top of us (again!!). We are serious about winning this bloody thing aren't we!?
We need someone brave enough to drop Gibbs next time he turns in one of those insipid performances - i think MM would certainly stick pretty thick to his 'non-negotiables'. Whether a fan or not, you've got to admit he carries 'authority'. Many of our blokes i suspect may benefit from receiving the message from a figure of greater authority right now.
As for Cloke - those who reject his capacity to instantly make us a genuine flag threat may be a little too focused on just his recent form or that innate Carltonian whispering, 'yeh but he's still a dumb-as-dog-shit himbo with a stupid bloody Angel Wings metaphor tatooed across his back'.
The bloke is clearly distracted - and even a little dispirited - right atm. He's been the best contested mark in the comp for years now - a true monster in the one-on-ones. Put him up forward with Waite, Eddie, Jeffy and AW1 and our structure is dynamic. He's also a truly durable player - another important ingredient our current playing list badly lacks at present.
Is he worth $1 mil p/a? No - probably not even based on 2011 form - but that extra $100-200K p/a is what's likely needed to see him out of Collingwood. Will he have a MASSIVE point to prove if he does move? You bet! Would any list management issues a move to Carlton may present be well and truly worth it IF his presence was to propel us to a flag in the next couple of years (before we lose Judd/Waite/Simmo/Scotto)? You betcha!!
Not much into writing at the moment and don't need to as you've pretty much echoed my feelings here BD.
The humour thread is that way >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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You are seriously underestimating how tough that it is to win premierships, Malthouse has a very solid record, particularly in a era that he competed against two of the best teams in the last 20 years, Brisbane in early to mid 2000's and then Geelong after that period.
You also mention that the Collingwood list was already built for him when he arrived, this is not correct at all, they were down in the bottom 3 prior to his arrival.
yeah but Richmond just beat the Bombers easily too so wouldnt hold that victory too high.
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