Roast Time to build a bridge I think!

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Ammo Man said:
I'm no fan of the way Thompson exited our club as I've posted countless times but to suggest he gave the defector "hell all year" is inaccurate. It was in the second half of the year when I'd suggest that Thompson - rightly or wrongly - came to the conclusion that Ablett by deliberately, calculatingly and selfishly putting his own interests above the best interests of the team was impacting adversely on the playing group. So, as the person responsible for the on field performance, he attempted to resolve the matter in the way he did. A ham-fisted way. Of course had Ablett done the honourable, loyal and club orientated thing when he made his decision to take the money and run all of that enmity could have been avoided.
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But Thompson put his own interests above the best interests of the team, when he was deliberatley, calculatingly and selfishly negotiating with Essendon, while we still had finals to play. This adversly affected the playing group, since, as the person for the on-field performance, he switched off, and didn't, IMO, give his all in the coaching box in the last few rounds.

Bomber should have done the honorable, loyal and team-oriented thing and either seen out his contract, or told Geelong the real reason he didn't want to coach them anymore, rather than concoct a fake "burnout" story.
 
_Me_ said:
people forget we lost mummy because of gaz
given we could have coughed up the $$$ had we known judas was walking

no one understands the effect on a playing group, when everyone makes sacrifices but when the highest paid player walks it upsets equilibrium

he was paid overs (ie on potential not actual ) on his his last contract

and how would you feel if you paid $1000 for a signed top from judas and judas jnr

they are exploiters
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He met his potential, therefore he wasn't paid overs. Gary was worth the money paid to him given his return over the period of his last contract.

I will agree though that the situation with Gary, and the situation with Gary and Mark Thompson must have been damaging to team fabric...I think to deny that would be folly.

Negatives like that may have only a marginal effect on performance overall, but in elite sport, its those margins that make the difference between winning and losing.

I suspect a lot of work has been done this off season on bringing the boys together and re-focusing on goals and KPI's. I honestly believe that we will function better as a unit this year than we did last...especially with the infusion of young talent ( where justified ) and the influence of a man like Chris Scott.

Don't be surprised to see Geelong right up there competing again for the ultimate prize.
 
_Me_ said:
people forget we lost mummy because of gaz
given we could have coughed up the $$$ had we known judas was walking

no one understands the effect on a playing group, when everyone makes sacrifices but when the highest paid player walks it upsets equilibrium

he was paid overs (ie on potential not actual ) on his his last contract

and how would you feel if you paid $1000 for a signed top from judas and judas jnr

they are exploiters
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Well, ME, how do you feel that Mumford walked from the club, because he was offered four times the amount Geelong were paying him, when he was a first-year player. Of course Geelong weren't going to pay him the same- Mumford hasn't proven anything yet.

Mummy was a first or second-year player, who got a handful of games, and yet walked because he was offered a lot more. I don't see that as loyal either! If Mumford had stayed, he may eventually have been paid a lot better, when he got more games in him. In fact, I believe that he would have toppled Blake out of the side, and become our number one ruckman. But Mummy had no right to expect to be paid so much so early on. You can't just pay people on potential- they have to earn it!

Whether you like Gary Ablett or not (and you obviously never did), you have to admit that he was our best player, so he deserved to be our highest-paid player too. He delivered many performances worthy of being paid what he was, whereas it was too early to tell with Mumford.

In the end, Mumford left because of Mumford. He was enticed by more money, and had done less to prove it. If there was no salary cap, would you deny Geelong offering Ablett a lot more to keep him. So, you don't believe in paying someone based on their performances then?

Isn't Mumford a judas as well?

One more thought. You bag Ablett tirelessly, but you must have respected him at one stage, because if you really think he is as selfish as you say, then you should be glad he left Geelong. If Ablett was of such poor character, then why are you upset with him leaving our club? Didn't he do the club a favor, in your opinion? You should be glad to not have judas at your club anymore, if you hate him so much.
 

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Really poor example, since Mumford found himself dropped for the 2009 finals in favour of Blake/Ottens, and was not guaranteed a senior spot in 2010. He left because Sydney were guaranteeing him gametime, hardly something that Ablett was going to be concerned with. Mumford's departure was Geelong's loss, especially when Mumford was quoted in the press as saying he would have stayed with Geelong if he'd been a part of the grand final side against the saints
 
I have decided I will only build a bridge if I can put him in the concrete foundations.

I'm not doing this right am I.

Hang in there people not far to go til the season starts!
 
_Me_ said:
and how would you feel if you paid $1000 for a signed top from judas and judas jnr

they are exploiters
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Once he and his old man put up that website in the middle of last year flogging off his signed stuff, I knew it was time to give up any emotional ties I had to the Abletts and realize he was off.
 
LifeSpan-Void said:
Really poor example, since Mumford found himself dropped for the 2009 finals in favour of Blake/Ottens, and was not guaranteed a senior spot in 2010. He left because Sydney were guaranteeing him gametime, hardly something that Ablett was going to be concerned with. Mumford's departure was Geelong's loss, especially when Mumford was quoted in the press as saying he would have stayed with Geelong if he'd been a part of the grand final side against the saints
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Agree totally. A really poor example. There are minimal precedents for this sort of scenario within AFL so there's nothing not much to compare it to. Mumford left becausr he was offered a fantastic opportunity by the Swans. At Geelong, he was competing with Ottens, Blake and even sometimes Tomahawk (during the experiment) for a ruck spot. We shouldve done more to keep him but in the end we couldn't. Mumford is not a Judas at all because he was never established in the side or even the hearts of the supporters and the community. In regard to the character assassinations of Ablett, people have obviously re evaluated their feelings toward Ablett on the basis on what is unravelling. I personally used to like him but now I don't really after everythings happened. I'm not going to throw a tantrum about it but I can see where people are coming from when they vent their displeasure with the situation (even _Me_)
 
maxy87 said:
Agree totally. A really poor example. There are minimal precedents for this sort of scenario within AFL so there's nothing not much to compare it to. Mumford left becausr he was offered a fantastic opportunity by the Swans. At Geelong, he was competing with Ottens, Blake and even sometimes Tomahawk (during the experiment) for a ruck spot. We shouldve done more to keep him but in the end we couldn't. Mumford is not a Judas at all because he was never established in the side or even the hearts of the supporters and the community. In regard to the character assassinations of Ablett, people have obviously re evaluated their feelings toward Ablett on the basis on what is unravelling. I personally used to like him but now I don't really after everythings happened. I'm not going to throw a tantrum about it but I can see where people are coming from when they vent their displeasure with the situation (even _Me_)
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Just like a messy family dispute, that's why all the abuse. People are obviously grieving the loss of an irreplaceable once in a generation player. We're all hurt. The winner takes it all?? Time will tell whether the wounds heal, and who the winner is. Ablett has agreat contract financially, Captaincy, and if he captains that team to a flag....and he has lost a lot of love from Geelong, and it seems from other teams' supporters. Wonder how it will unravel , over the next 5 years, and what we do over that time.
 
Some good posts.

There will be some soul ripped out of the cats because of Gaz leaving.
I understand his personal choice.

But gee I think people under estimate what that has done.
Many think the club just moves on. It does, but not in a 6 month period.


The best midfilelder we have had in a long time just walks out and we replace him? Nup, carey was wrong with regards to 4%

But what we won't see (and will hurt more) is this bunch of players minds who thought it was one in, all in.
 
d_henderson1810 said:
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Well, ME, how do you feel that Mumford walked from the club, because he was offered four times the amount Geelong were paying him, when he was a first-year player. Of course Geelong weren't going to pay him the same- Mumford hasn't proven anything yet.
1. muumy never chased the $$$
2. he was never paid overs, even pickers agress gaz was paid overs when he signed his last contract
3. geelong would have paid him more if they knew gaz was going


Mummy was a first or second-year player, who got a handful of games, and yet walked because he was offered a lot more. I don't see that as loyal either! If Mumford had stayed, he may eventually have been paid a lot better, when he got more games in him. In fact, I believe that he would have toppled Blake out of the side, and become our number one ruckman. But Mummy had no right to expect to be paid so much so early on. You can't just pay people on potential- they have to earn it! you miss the point - gaz was
mummy didn't do a blake and threaten the club

Whether you like Gary Ablett or not (and you obviously never did), you have to admit that he was our best player, so he deserved to be our highest-paid player too. He delivered many performances worthy of being paid what he was, whereas it was too early to tell with Mumford.

In the end, Mumford left because of Mumford. He was enticed by more money, and had done less to prove it. If there was no salary cap, would you deny Geelong offering Ablett a lot more to keep him. So, you don't believe in paying someone based on their performances then? again in 06 gaz was offered a contract with overs based on potential, and i haven't started with nath who was well well paid

Isn't Mumford a judas as well?no he did not chase the $$$, and was on a basic wage at geelong, he didn't sell his gear and his soul, he didn't lie

One more thought. You bag Ablett tirelessly, but you must have respected him at one stage, because if you really think he is as selfish as you say, then you should be glad he left Geelong. If Ablett was of such poor character, then why are you upset with him leaving our club? Didn't he do the club a favor, in your opinion? You should be glad to not have judas at your club anymore, if you hate him so muchi don't hate him, i think he is piss poor.
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i will keep it simple
 
the problem is when they are going towards the end of their career and see selfishness it can work the other way

mackie was gone mentally this year, and made comments to this, and i no doubt believe it had to do with gazza
 
vinum coupe said:
Some good posts.

There will be some soul ripped out of the cats because of Gaz leaving.
I understand his personal choice.

But gee I think people under estimate what that has done.
Many think the club just moves on. It does, but not in a 6 month period.


The best midfilelder we have had in a long time just walks out and we replace him? Nup, carey was wrong with regards to 4%

But what we won't see (and will hurt more) is this bunch of players minds who thought it was one in, all in.
Click to expand...

VC , do you really think the players believed he was staying. I don't . Surely they would have read between the lines , they know most players that want to stay sign early. They don't hold the club over the fire like a pink marshmallow waiting to see if they melt under the heat.Most sign and by not a player signals that he may be on the move. On top of that , I doubt they pact they all agreed to was made with the amount of the Ablett offer in mind.

Him leaving will hurt because he had speed , he kicked goals , he did that many things that well we probably have become reliant on him to do them but we have no choice he is gone and we just have to give others the chance to grow. You are probably right though , it would be longest , long shot that another kid comes and performs to an elite level.
 

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LifeSpan-Void said:
Really poor example, since Mumford found himself dropped for the 2009 finals in favour of Blake/Ottens, and was not guaranteed a senior spot in 2010. He left because Sydney were guaranteeing him gametime, hardly something that Ablett was going to be concerned with. Mumford's departure was Geelong's loss, especially when Mumford was quoted in the press as saying he would have stayed with Geelong if he'd been a part of the grand final side against the saints
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Mumford would have got a senior game eventuslly-if he had been patient. Why do I say that? Because Ottens isn't getting any younger, and may retire even sooner because of his body falling apart. He also would have gone ahead of Mark Blake, since he had more to his game. Within two years, he would have been our No. 1 ruckman, and could have played in a couple of premierships as well. Mumford got impatient, so he took the easy way. Don't let your Ablett-hate cause you to change facts.
 
d_henderson1810 said:
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Mumford would have got a senior game eventuslly-if he had been patient. Why do I say that? Because Ottens isn't getting any younger, and may retire even sooner because of his body falling apart. He also would have gone ahead of Mark Blake, since he had more to his game. Within two years, he would have been our No. 1 ruckman, and could have played in a couple of premierships as well. Mumford got impatient, so he took the easy way. Don't let your Ablett-hate cause you to change facts.
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If he had waited??? Wow that comment really lacks insight into the mindset of these AFL players. Given the transient nature of their careers, sometimes those waiting in the wings don't have the luxury of waiting. Mumford wasn't a kid when he was rookied by us, he was already AFL-ready. There was no "you're skinny and we need to put a few years into you, be patient" sentiment here. The reality was that aside from Ottens and Blake, there was also West and Simpson contending for 2 spots in the side. If your week to week future is not certain, and a team who has just traded out their version of Ottens says to you "our number 1 chair is empty, come have a career with us" then you just do it. Money is an afterthought when stacked up against guaranteed senior games vs. In-one-week-out-the-next.

Ablett was our number 1 midfielder every week, our lucky charm, our talisman, a name synonymous with Geelong itself. He was not waiting for a career, infact he was mollycoddled through the early years of his career when it seemed he wasn't always deserving of a game. He was still getting them. I notice you aren't calling Prismall a traitor, he wanted the same thing as Mumford. Is it because his career at essendon hasn't exploded like he thought it would?
 
Turbocat said:
VC , do you really think the players believed he was staying. I don't . Surely they would have read between the lines , they know most players that want to stay sign early. They don't hold the club over the fire like a pink marshmallow waiting to see if they melt under the heat.Most sign and by not a player signals that he may be on the move. On top of that , I doubt they pact they all agreed to was made with the amount of the Ablett offer in mind.
.
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No they probably didn't I agree.
But I never thought he was staying, and it still hurts when I think of him running around elsewhere this year.

It just may have lessened the galvanisation of the group that's all.
But we'll never know.
 
LifeSpan-Void said:
If he had waited??? Wow that comment really lacks insight into the mindset of these AFL players. Given the transient nature of their careers, sometimes those waiting in the wings don't have the luxury of waiting. Mumford wasn't a kid when he was rookied by us, he was already AFL-ready. There was no "you're skinny and we need to put a few years into you, be patient" sentiment here. The reality was that aside from Ottens and Blake, there was also West and Simpson contending for 2 spots in the side. If your week to week future is not certain, and a team who has just traded out their version of Ottens says to you "our number 1 chair is empty, come have a career with us" then you just do it. Money is an afterthought when stacked up against guaranteed senior games vs. In-one-week-out-the-next.

Ablett was our number 1 midfielder every week, our lucky charm, our talisman, a name synonymous with Geelong itself. He was not waiting for a career, infact he was mollycoddled through the early years of his career when it seemed he wasn't always deserving of a game. He was still getting them. I notice you aren't calling Prismall a traitor, he wanted the same thing as Mumford. Is it because his career at essendon hasn't exploded like he thought it would?
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But Mumford wouldn't have had to wait too long for his chance. Ottens gets injured at the drop of a hat, and Mumford would take that spot. By the time Ottens comes back, Blake would have lost form, and Mumford would keep his spot. Mumford was ahead of either Simpson or West. So, the opportunity was there at Geelong, but the money he was offered by Sydney wasn't. So he went.

IMO, we should have played Mumford in the finals, and he may have stayed then. I didn't care if Blake missed out again, but he seemed to be Bomber's love-child (how else do you explain all his games?). So if you want to blame someone for Mumford leaving, blame the liar who faked burnout to be James' Hird's bum-sniffer. But I notice that there is too much Thompson love on this board. So you can lie to the club, as long as you don't make more money, is that it?

BTW, I'm not down on Prismall because he left for opportunity. I am unaware if he was paid much more at Essendon than at Geelong. I actually don't have problems with players trying to earn as much as they can, it is you lot who are hypocritical, and single out Ablett for leaving "for money" even though Mumford did a similar thing. If you're insecure that things have work out for Ablett better than they do for you, that's your problem, so just admit your jealousy and stop the hating.
 
Good thing we're all different. I still believed< hoped he was staying with us right until the announcement, so I really should hate him, but I can't. He has given us heaps of pleasure, unforgettable, and has probably decided our list has gone as far as it could and the offer was irresistible, etc etc. Captaincy, brother, challenge, $$$, it's done and we still get to blame him if we fade away, and if we don't , we soar and still get to marvel at his talent elsewhere. Bridge.
 
vinum coupe said:
Some good posts.

There will be some soul ripped out of the cats because of Gaz leaving.
I understand his personal choice.

But gee I think people under estimate what that has done.
Many think the club just moves on. It does, but not in a 6 month period.


The best midfilelder we have had in a long time just walks out and we replace him? Nup, carey was wrong with regards to 4%

But what we won't see (and will hurt more) is this bunch of players minds who thought it was one in, all in.
Click to expand...

I agree. I think this aspect will either galvanise them together and motivate them, or it will deject them and make people start thinking selfishly which will have a negative affect on the playing group.

One of the many challenges Scott and his staff will have to deal with.
 
d_henderson1810 said:
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But Mumford wouldn't have had to wait too long for his chance. Ottens gets injured at the drop of a hat, and Mumford would take that spot. But the time Ottens comes back, Blake would have lot form, and Mumford would keep his spot. Mumford was ahead of either Simpson or West. So, the opportunity was there at Geelong, but the money he was offered by Sydney wasn't. So he went.

IMO, we should have played Mumford in the finals, and he may have stayed then. I didn't care if Blake missed out again, but he seemed to be Bomber's love-child (how else do you explain all his games). So if you want to blame someone for Mumford leaving, blame the liar who faked burnout to be James' Hird's bum-sniffer. But I notice that there is too much Thompson love on this board. So you can lie to the club, as long as you don't make more money, is that it?

BTW, I'm not down on Prismall because he left for opportunity. I am unaware if he was paid much more at Essendon than at Geelong. I actually don't have problems with players trying to earn as much as they can, it is you lot who are hypocritical, and single out Ablett for leaving "for money" even though Mumford did a similar thing. If you're insecure that things have work out for Ablett better than they do for you, that's your problem, so just admit your jealousy and stop the hating.
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Your opinion regarding Mumford is not based on fact and you aren't listening so there's no point trying to correct you. As for being jealous of Ablett... What? I don't really care about Ablett, I don't really care that he's gone, but other people do and I can see their point of view. VEEDUBS is evidently on drugs with his pie in the sky sentiments and you hendo... You seem to be reciting from the Book of Sanctimonious Prats to base all of your arguments about Ablett leaving.
 
LifeSpan-Void said:
Your opinion regarding Mumford is not based on fact and you aren't listening so there's no point trying to correct you. As for being jealous of Ablett... What? I don't really care about Ablett, I don't really care that he's gone, but other people do and I can see their point of view. VEEDUBS is evidently on drugs with his pie in the sky sentiments and you hendo... You seem to be reciting from the Book of Sanctimonious Prats to base all of your arguments about Ablett leaving.
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are you an authority on drugs? what exactly do you think I'm on? Why don't you really care he has gone? makes you the peculiar one doesn't it?
 
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