List Mgmt. Trade and F/A 2020 Cont’d

[jonmacTrag]

So after this Armageddon of a trade period that cannot be salvaged in the immediate to medium term.

It has raised questions of what is going on in the players minds and are they there just to maximize their coin? I'm sure on field success is on the mind but is that prioritized over the coin their employer pays them? And do they now have any trust for Nathan after the 'phone calls'?

Also what is it that the benchmark have as far as being able to retain premiership players and add flag winning players like Lynch? Why are they so different? Is it on face value they're paying their blue chip cattle ultra $$ and everyone else has to 'earn' their value? Is that true? If so why aren't we demanding more of our employees doing the same thing?

Is there a lack of urgency to instill the correct values in order to achieve on field success? And if so why is that?

Some of that core value urgency would be stymied by the AFLPA - anything that has the faintest whiff of players being coerced is going to attract their ire.
Don't get me wrong in this players needed an organization to go to bat for them and the AFLPA does good work . . . mostly.
They can however be bloody minded and opinionated - like my exes - players now have the whip hand in reality.
Any club wishing to instill a 'club first' mentality in the playing list had better get the AFLPA involved early and tread SOFTLY.

 

[jackcass]

Half our side are over 26, and under normal circumstances in decline.

Actually, it's now down to about 45% and will drop when we add the draftees.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Some of that core value urgency would be stymied by the AFLPA - anything that has the faintest whiff of players being coerced is going to attract their ire.
Don't get me wrong in this players needed an organization to go to bat for them and the AFLPA does good work . . . mostly.
They can however be bloody minded and opinionated - like my exes - players now have the whip hand in reality.
Any club wishing to instill a 'club first' mentality in the playing list had better get the AFPLA involved early and tread SOFTLY.

And yet even in this current environment, the premiers are the premiers and we are.......... well..................... shit.

I guess my point was, it does look like the players (employees) are invested in the club (employer) and the clubs success first and foremost. While at the Holden centre it looks like 'player X is on $$ I wan't the same or I'm calling Paddy' .

That's probably a simplistic observation but it does have that smell to it, which means the club will never succeed, not until the right attitude is employed collectively.

It's not looking good in the immediate term, given that the club has basically conceded (alluded to) that the window is shut. That is heavily exacerbated by the fact we've got zero to show since the acquisition of Nathan into his role.

 

[jackcass]

Feels logical to me that the two people who said it wasn’t a salary cap issue, Guy & Walsh, are the two people responsible for the salary cap issue. Who says no?

What they said was that it wasn't as big an issue as the media were suggesting. Walshy even elaborated to state that we work within the same TPP requirements as every club.

 

[johncitizen]

If you think it's ok for membership to drop by 30% and that the entire club wont be financially stricken as a result, taking years to recover, you have no idea. If that is ok for you, because you want the whole of the Collingwood Football Club and their members/supporters to suffer for years just because you are disgruntled suggests to me you are extremely naive on how cashflow is a financial lifeline for businesses. Either that or you are vinditcive and wont to take everyone down with major collateral damage because YOU feel you have been lied to.

If Ed and friends were doing their job properly, we would have many more members than we have now. Needing a complete refresh..
I wonder when the Holden Centre will be renamed with a new sponsor..

 

[jackcass]

It's 8 years later than it should have been, but could it be time for the Bont to don the black and white stripes?

I've got to be honest and say none of the other players in that FA class really excite me.

I'd be pretty happy to see us add Kelly and Vlastuin.

 

[piesforever20]

Degoey off the piss and in the gym/running track?

In the gym almost every day including weekends. Weights and running. About time

 

[Kappa]

I think the earliest a bid comes for McInnes is the Bombers at pick 8 which is worth 1,551 points. Our 20% discount means that equates to pick 12 or 1240 points. If we've got 3 1st round picks and then use our 1st to match that then we'd still have 2x 1st's or at worst 1x 1st and 1x very early 2nd. The real bonus would be grabbing the 3x 1st round players and then McInnes.

McInnes at 8 would be a huge gamble, Essendon need a big rebuild and I suspect they'll play it safe with proven gun midfielders and the best KPP available.

 

[Ga Doey]

If you think it's ok for membership to drop by 30% and that the entire club wont be financially stricken as a result, taking years to recover, you have no idea. If that is ok for you, because you want the whole of the Collingwood Football Club and their members/supporters to suffer for years just because you are disgruntled suggests to me you are extremely naive on how cashflow is a financial lifeline for businesses. Either that or you are vinditcive and wont to take everyone down with major collateral damage because YOU feel you have been lied to.

"financially stricken", "years to recover", "major collateral damage", you don't write Collingwood articles for the HUN do you? What a way to sensationalize my previous comment.

By the way, if our membership did fall down to say 60k (for even just one year - don't want you dramatizing your next reply), this would put us at Geelong levels and we all know how successful they've been for an extended period.

You say cashflow is a lifeline for business, I'd argue that competence is as well.

You'll get no further replies from me, back to Trade and F/A...

 

[Chrispiesssss]

If you think it's ok for membership to drop by 30% and that the entire club wont be financially stricken as a result, taking years to recover, you have no idea. If that is ok for you, because you want the whole of the Collingwood Football Club and their members/supporters to suffer for years just because you are disgruntled suggests to me you are extremely naive on how cashflow is a financial lifeline for businesses. Either that or you are vinditcive and wont to take everyone down with major collateral damage because YOU feel you have been lied to.

Not being rude, but is this you Eddie?

We keep shovelling our money even though we are unhappy with decisions and directions of the club?

 

[jackcass]

I think we are looking a bit bare in the mids and forward line. De Goey needs to be split in 2. With Adz gone, Pendles being 33 and a question mark over whether any of Sier, the Browns or other less established payers will be able to do full mid time Jordy as a mid make sense. With our other most potent forwad Stevo gone its hard to see where the goals come from in 2021 and a forward line without De Goey will seriously lack fire power

If our youngster can step up in a major way this would help but i don't think that's something we can rely on. I think we will take a few steps back next season

I'd be very surprised if we weren't seeing Rantall through the midfield in 2021. Been nursed through this year to some degree but was looking good in the scratch match vision we were getting, and didn't look out of place in the preseason game he played.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

If there’s no Reef bid by our pick 14, or whatever that gets pushed back to, does that add to the impetus to trade our 2021 first for pick 15 this year?

Pretty hard to make us match a bid if we own 14, 15, 16 at that point. I don’t know if GWS are likely to bid on Reef at 15, but the guarantee of getting three firsts plus Reef from that hypothetical point onwards definitely makes a trade for 15, or 15 + change, pretty attractive as opposed to the possibility of GWS bidding or trading to someone else who does.

 

[jackcass]

I see it as generally turning over the list.

Some of the core will remain and some will be replaced in doing so. This is where I see our club headed over the next 3-4 draft/trade periods. Pendles will be 35 at the start of the 2023 season. You are kidding yourself if you think he isn't in his last few seasons.

We've averaged 10 list changes a year since 2010. In 2020 we've had 10 list changes and we've had the AFL reduce list sizes. I'm not sure why this year it should be considered a rebuild when we're actually on average in terms of our list turnover.

 

[Scodog10]

If there’s no Reef bid by our pick 14, or whatever that gets pushed back to, does that add to the impetus to trade our 2021 first for pick 15 this year?

Pretty hard to make us match a bid if we own 14, 15, 16 at that point. I don’t know if GWS are likely to bid on Reef at 15, but the guarantee of getting three firsts plus Reef from that hypothetical point onwards definitely makes a trade for 15, or 15 + change, pretty attractive as opposed to the possibility of GWS bidding or trading to someone else who does.

My read on it is that at least one of 14 and 16 will be gone by draft night and the club isn’t expecting a bid on Reef in the 1st round.

 

[LuckyLee]

Well, depends which way you look at it really. The improvement of Daicos and Brown was super promising as the season went on. Grundy had a shocker. We had alot of key injuries so yes I believe early on in the season there was no reason to think we had a sniff as in the past couple of seasons.




Treloar was removed for cap relief/bad contract management by the club not for his ability. As you said Treloar was injured for large chunks so he never really got going, past seasons showed his importance. We know lack pace in the midfield (Which De Goey may fix but it really unproven as he hasn't played consistent minutes as a permanent onballer)



No we couldn't go in with them mate because their contracts were so up the sh*t hence why we basically gave them all away (Treloar/Stevo/Flipper). Fire sale brother because the club f***ed up.



I haven't really judged the future beyond next season. I'm judging 2021 as a year where we step back whilst other teams pass us. Simple really, not meaning to be smart or anything just my honest assessment.

Which Brown did you think showed “super promising “improvement?

I thought they both looked pretty ordinary, with negligible impact and Cal’s kicking in particular not up to AFL standard. It’s probably a bit early to make a call on Tyler but he certainly did little to announce himself as the next big thing.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Jafo]

Guess we haven’t had talks? https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/nort...fl-coaching-great-alastair-clarkson-c-1596487

 

[swoop42]

Correct. Hopefully the penny is dropping for him. Should be using Petracca as his example. If he wants to be then he will clearly be our best player next year and beyond.

Penny dropped or just the nightclubs still shut?

Only time will tell.

 

[partypie]

Now is the time. There's no way they could afford to match.

Honestly though he'd be a great replacement for someone like JT.

You'd think that St Kilda might now overloaded with Jacks after bringing in messir Higgins, but they also delisted a couple of other Jacks so they wouldn't go over their Jack quota.

 

[Matt_352]

Guess we haven’t had talks? https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/nort...fl-coaching-great-alastair-clarkson-c-1596487

Get fk pleb hands off

 

[Jafo]

Interesting the read on peoples’ on our mids for 2021. Sure Adz is a big chunk out but over time think we can cover him. Has spent a lot out due to injury last few years too and is an accumulator but not as damaging a mid/pinch hitter at goals as we would like.

I notice most don’t seem to bring up our current reigning Copeland winner in the midfield conversation.

I would value Adams over Treloar. Yes, not a precise by foot player before I get chopped down saying same for Treloar.

But I think more value to team than Adz and a future Captain at the calling.

 

[Jafo]

Get fk pleb hands off

?

 

[Matt_352]

?

Pies should be sounding out Clarko

 

[Jafo]

Pies should be sounding out Clarko

I think sometimes Collingwood trust in Collingwood too much. Aka Ed, Bucks, Rocca, Tarks (even though he’s gone to the Academy now). Too much of we’re Collingwood, F*ck the rest.

With our supposed $ we should be head hunting the best that we can get within our new coaching/football dept cap.

I would like Buddha Hocking back for one.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

My read on it is that at least one of 14 and 16 will be gone by draft night and the club isn’t expecting a bid on Reef in the 1st round.

You’re suggesting we’re going to package one of 14 or 16 with our 2021 first to move up?

Where does your confidence on this stem from?

 

[Matt_352]

I think sometimes Collingwood trust in Collingwood too much. Aka Ed, Bucks, Rocca, Tarks (even though he’s gone to the Academy now). Too much of we’re Collingwood, F*ck the rest.

With our supposed $ we should be head hunting the best that we can get within our new coaching/football dept cap.

I would like Buddha Hocking back for one.

Yep we must dismantle the boys club.