List Mgmt. Trade and F/A - Part 3

[Gone Critical]

It was this game in 1990.

On TV you can see Ned running off Plugger after about half way through the first quarter. By 5 minutes before half time Plugger has had enough and tries to put Ned through the Social Club fence! Then just before half time Ned runs off again and gets a shot at goal (he misses of course)
The "pinchies" and niggles were all behind play so the TV cameras didn't catch them but as this Vid shows...Ned and Monkey were not taking a backward step from Plugger. It was obviously a tactic Lethal taught his defenders because all of them were making life "uncomfortable" for all the StKilda forwards (a young Winmar, an older Jimmy Krakour). But it worked and as I said before Ned (though he might play the game and say he was scared of Plugger)....really wasn't once he had a job to do on the field. Old "cement head" was a fantastic competitor who Matthews used quite often to unsettle opponents.

PS....its also nice seeing the 42 out there and the 35 in all its glory! They were a great side the 1990 Pies.

Only problem Rob is Neds pinching stuff occurred in 1995

 

[Trickster]

I'd love to see Pendles stay and take a big pay cut.
I think he'd survive OK on say $200k per annum and it may free up enough cap to help us chase a big name player (preferably KPF).

Or they could come to an 'arrangement' where they pay him $300k per year for 2 years and he then becomes an assistant for $600k in 3rd year. Stuff the soft cap. That way it can free up money.

 

[Robroy22]

Only problem Rob is Neds pinching stuff occurred in 1995

Look mate, I don't want to hang it on a mod but if you're telling me I didn't see what I saw then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm not making stuff up here. Ned was playing pinchy pinchy with Plugger that day and then running him up and down the ground. It was a tactic they used on Plugger for years even when he went to Sydney.

Those of us at the ground could see the altercations happening and the fun of Plugger chasing Ned and not having a hope in hell of catching him!

 

[Trickster]

Only problem Rob is Neds pinching stuff occurred in 1995

Yep, it happened in that game late in 95 where we beat Hawt by 3 pts after leading comfortably. There's footage of that game and he was just constantly into Dunstall. As in whole night.

 

[Quicky]

If he goes nothing less than a first round pick.

I'd prefer not at all.

 

[adammania9]

One of the Bulldogs midfielders must be near gettable (ironically after they nabbed Treloar for zilch last year). Dunkley and Bazlenka would be big targets. Though Baz is a comical front runner I’m sure he still has some unearthed potential and could have some sense coached into him.

 

[johncitizen]

I'd prefer not at all.

Same. Worst case scenario

 

[Kappa]

Doesn't seem to be a worry..


AFL journalist Tom Browne expected a deal to get done between the Magpies and Scott Pendlebury but described it as an “unusual” situation.

“There’s a strong commitment from Collingwood and Pendlebury and confidence to get a deal done for next year,” he said on Triple M.

“But it is a bit unusual going into the final round of the season that Collingwood’s captain isn’t contracted for next year.

“It has just been slowed down by the coaching search and everything that’s going on off-field at Collingwood. They’ll resolve it, but you’d hope soon.”

’Unusual’ call as Magpies captain left waiting; Docker may reject Vic interest: Trade Whispers

’Unusual’ call as Magpies captain left waiting; Docker may reject Vic interest: Trade Whispers

www.foxsports.com.au

A deal will be done.

Hopefully not for 700k again

 

[Jen2310]

Hopefully not for 700k again

surely another paycut.
600?

 

[ZEV]

Ross was shown the door before he played after a night out that ended up in a court case from memory

With Aaron James and Trent Hotton....

 

[mike123]

There's definitely value in drafting kids. But I think the AFL is a small pretty incestuous industry where group think sets in really quickly. Eg. All of a sudden the whole industry decided that you don't draft ruckman early and Grundy slipped way down the draft. I think the same happens with valuations of draft picks versus recruits. A club wins through their early picks and all of a sudden that's the way to go and early picks become more highly valued, but which way does it go if the cats have a run of success?

I think the same happens with untried coaches v former coaches. The industry has a hard on for untried coaches whilst former coachers are persona non grata

 

[mike123]

We were also stung by getting so few late hits in the draft.

Probably due to our vanilla draft policy. Was anyone surprised that we didn’t get more hits out of Mathew Goodyear, Micheal Manteit, Rupert Wills, Ben Crocker, Josh Smith and Flyn Appleby?

Brendon Abbot and Kayle Kirby are the only ones that comes to mind when talking about late picks with potential not making it.

 

[Gone Critical]

Look mate, I don't want to hang it on a mod but if you're telling me I didn't see what I saw then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm not making stuff up here. Ned was playing pinchy pinchy with Plugger that day and then running him up and down the ground. It was a tactic they used on Plugger for years even when he went to Sydney.

Those of us at the ground could see the altercations happening and the fun of Plugger chasing Ned and not having a hope in hell of catching him!

I am not saying Ned wouldn’t have ruffled feathers and tried to get under the skin but the pinching stuff only occurred in 95. I remember the big joke at the time about he wouldn’t do it to Plugger. There are a fair few interviews and articles that back that up but here is one from the front bar where Ned explains how he started the pinching in Leigh’s last year, 1st of all on Sav at training. Look at the last 2 minutes when Ned explains it and then finishes when after pinching Ablett and Dunstall on successive
weeks he came against Plugger next and didn’t go near him. As Ned says in the last
line “I was petrified” of Lockett

Don’t take my word take Kelly’s and Dunstalls who are clear about

 

[sr36]

Probably due to our vanilla draft policy. Was anyone surprised that we didn’t get more hits out of Mathew Goodyear, Micheal Manteit, Rupert Wills, Ben Crocker, Josh Smith and Flyn Appleby?

Brendon Abbot and Kayle Kirby are the only ones that comes to mind when talking about late picks with potential not making it.

I think we got it really wrong with our late picks. We went for talls with athletic attributes, who couldn't play footy. And smalls without athletic attributes, who could play footy. But success came from the other way around. Of your list, I think Goodyear was worth a shot - could seriously run and thus was worth a shot

 

[mike123]

You'd be willing to let our greatest player of the modern era walk if he asked for more than the average AFL salary?

Our greatest player of the modern era was already forced to walk this year

 

[mike123]

I think we got it really wrong with our late picks. We went for talls with athletic attributes, who couldn't play footy. And smalls without athletic attributes, who could play footy. But success came from the other way around. Of your list, I think Goodyear was worth a shot - could seriously run and thus was worth a shot

Goodyear was an odd one. His draft profile said he was quick but he looked average paced every time I saw him on the field.

 

[Rohan25]

I liked Schauble. Could take a mark. He won their b&f in his first year at Sydney. If he hadn't then succumbed to injuries, that may have gone down as one of those really awful trades that teams get teased about for years.

I liked Schauble too. Held up under immense pressure in a key defensive post in our really bad sides of the late ‘90’s. He was always going to do better in a more defensive minded team.

I liked Kinnear as well though and was excited to get him. He was taken pick 4 in his draft and although his stats from the handful of games he played are pretty dismal, he did some exciting things in those games and I was really looking forward to seeing him play with us, he had serious talent. In the end I think we just got scammed. He had already quit the swans at the end of his second year and sat out his entire 3rd season before being traded to us.

The trade actually worked out ok though. We got a draft pick in the 30’s as well that we then used to draft the great Leon Davis, one of my all time faves, so I’d still do that trade again every day of the week.

 

[sr36]

I liked Schauble too. Held up under immense pressure in a key defensive post in our really bad sides of the late ‘90’s. He was always going to do better in a more defensive minded team.

I liked Kinnear as well though and was excited to get him. He was taken pick 4 in his draft and although his stats from the handful of games he played are pretty dismal, he did some exciting things in those games and I was really looking forward to seeing him play with us, he had serious talent. In the end I think we just got scammed. He had already quit the swans at the end of his second year and sat out his entire 3rd season before being traded to us.

The trade actually worked out ok though. We got a draft pick in the 30’s as well that we then used to draft the great Leon Davis, one of my all time faves, so I’d still do that trade again every day of the week.

Thanks for the extra insight and knowledge.

 

[Mick F]

Look mate, I don't want to hang it on a mod but if you're telling me I didn't see what I saw then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm not making stuff up here. Ned was playing pinchy pinchy with Plugger that day and then running him up and down the ground. It was a tactic they used on Plugger for years even when he went to Sydney.

Those of us at the ground could see the altercations happening and the fun of Plugger chasing Ned and not having a hope in hell of catching him!

Yep hilarious. Like Steve Baker most weeks and Scott with Riewoldt. It’s assault.

 

[JLC]

Can we Trade Moore and De Goey Too?

Depends if they want to leave or not.

I think De Goey will 100% want to stay but has to be for the right price.

If Moore wanted to go to Sydney then I would say ok but for Logan McDonald and Maclean. My preference is to keep Moore.

Grundy and Maynard to Adelaide (would have to be part of a three way deal). Not sure who the other club would be?). Possibly the Suns to get Rowell. my preference is to keep Maynard but if he wants to leave then we need to maximise the deal.

A midfield of Taylor Adams, Matt Rowell, De Goey, Nick Daicos, Macrae, McInnes is overall young but is a good launching pad.

 

[ONTHEPROWL]

Take it as you will but the mail I have gotten is our salary cap issues are not as bad as they are being portrayed. Looking at at least 4 players to trade in that will be in our best 22. Crouch being on our list of potential incoming players.

 

[loki04]

That is the point, the draft is compromised!

You don't need to bottom out to get access to top end talent...you can finish anywhere and still get top talent.

We didn't need to be bottom few to get access to DeGoey or Moore (9th with 11 wins) or even Daicos, we could have finished 7th, 2nd or 15th this year and still grabbed Daicos.

There are multiple avenues available to ensure a club is bringing in quality AFL talent.


Carlton, Melbourne, StK, GC all had a shared desire to push out senior experience and fill with youth doing a full "rebuild". The premise being to play as a development team for a few years, stock pile early draft picks, ship off senior players for more picks, and then sit back as they all come good....but this means players don't need to earn games, standards drop, poor performance is accepted, kids don't improve and a losing culture develops.

Back when the priority pick was around, Collingwood 2005, it was smart to not win more than 5 games and be a bottom dweller. The reward for not winning a game was to get both Thomas AND Pendles instead of just one of them...now the incentive of bottoming out has been removed.


We actively did fast track our build by trading out of the 2021 draft and into the 2020.

If some kids come on, DeGoey and Moore make the AA team, and we end up winning 10 games and finishing 10-12th, you try and frame that as a poorer outcome for future success compared to being rubbish and only having four wins.

All because if we are rubbish we get pick 1/2/3 compared to only getting pick 7/8 if we actually improve to mid table.

Do you honestly believe you can manufacture a Beams style trade every time the clubs looking to rebuild? the club itself did not want to lose Beams originally. You are basically saying go trade Degoey type talent to get another Degoey talent in and steak knives...

Father sons are also relatively rare although ourselves and Geelong have done well out of them they are not readily available.

You can not see that this is not a realistic or reliable way to try to gain that talent?
Also the fact we still got the talent in that rebuild because YOU do in fact need that bracket of talent ( much to your original claim that you dont)...

Yes we are again in a fortunate spot due to ND but 1 year of top 3 is not enough imo a 2nd year is required.

I know exactly what Carlton and Melbourne did and again you are putting words in my mouth, all along I said play the core senior talent still at the club but also play youth much like this year. You are the one who took my development year to the extreme.

And yes I think long term for where the LIST is at right now a 2022 10th place finish is much poorer result then if we had a similar year to this.
2023 is where the rise should start both in terms of youth exp kicking in and enough talent bought into via draft.

Both years you are shit your scenario is maybe 6 wins instead of my 4 but the outcome to what you have access in the draft is much poorer. This bs that pick 8 is better then a top 5 pick because *sometimes* clubs screw the pooch on talent id is farcical when looking at the draft across all years.

If we do happen to win more next year through natural progression of the list so be it but imo it is not desirable yet to trade in a heap of b. Type talent to do it.

 

[loki04]

Take it as you will but the mail I have gotten is our salary cap issues are not as bad as they are being portrayed. Looking at at least 4 players to trade in that will be in our best 22. Crouch being on our list of potential incoming players.

Trade with what?

Better not be our 2022 picks...D.Hine is obsessed with buying now pay later future pick scheme. Credit card companies must love him.

This will be right up a couple on here's alley, trade out of a highly rated kpp draft that we would like finish bot 4 in even with all efforts not too (if list stays the same), for some B+ grade mid.

 

[loki04]

Goodyear was an odd one. His draft profile said he was quick but he looked average paced every time I saw him on the field.

Some players are not quick on field but set good times on hard sprung floors.

Or they lack power through the first 10m vs others and can't get the breakaway pace.

 

[Rebuilder]

If it's another 'holding pattern' year to flush out the cap can we at least get a couple of speculative keys in on top of Daics and Dibs!

Not a lot on offer even in the affordable range but Mclean and Krueger are the right age and just staring to show a bit.

Adams Krueger Ruscoe
Quaynor Moore Crisp

Grundy De Goey N Daicos
HoskinE Maynard J Daicos

Henry Mihocek Ginnivan
Cameron Mclean Elliott

Interchange from:

Macrea McCreery Dib Bianco Poulter McInnes T Brown Noble Kelly Wilson
Murphy Rantall C Brown Chugg Johnson Keane Tohill McMahon Begg Faye

Vets:
Sidebottom Pendlebury Roughead Howe Madgen


On:
N Daicos Y Dib Krueger McLean (National) (Mid-Season)


Off: Greenwood Mayne Thomas Cox Sier Lynch