List Mgmt. Trade and F/A - Part 3

[Billys Back]

I’d rather keep next years first and have the potential to get an elite KPP than trade it for Horne, who I’m not convinced is the amazing talent people say he is. I don’t think that trade would be worth it tbh.

Are there any expected to be in the very best players in the draft?

 

[Matt_352]

We should be building up picks for next years draft to have a monster draft in 22

 

[jackcass]

No there is tanking and managing a season.

Tanking to me is what Carlton and Melbourne planned for over numerous seasons the whole club including the players knew they wanted to lose.

They had a firesale of any and all senior talent including players in the 25 to 28 yo bracket. No one to guide the youth or any chance of getting any wins.

My suggestion and that ^^ are different. You guys just panick too much and are short sighted in your need to be good (relatively) straight away.

I’ve known lots of people who have advocated the same list management activities in the past but they’ve never tried to delude themselves that it wasn’t tanking. I will always advocate we pick the best possible team with the greatest potential to win. If it costs us 1 or 2 spots at the draft then so be it.

 

[Apex36]

Are there any expected to be in the very best players in the draft?

Next years draft is supposedly KPP rich. It’s almost impossible to say right now, but it’s very likely that there will be one at the top end.

 

[OniAu]

List manager/ head recruiter only picks the type of players that the the coach asks for. I think he is going ok. The club’s error was to take him away from his bread and butter and put him in charge of list management

So conflicting . As the bucks defenders were saying opposite lol

 

[doppleganger]

Mate Essendon 00 mid years. Get with it its been 20 years.

It wasn't I who tried to link M.Hurley with a current build!!

My mind hasn't changed I have been
consistent you bought up the current essendon team attempting to say they will be sh*t because they hit 8 9 and 10 of the draft but failed to list they already have dropped and got pick 1 and pick 5s plus a pick 6.

Draft picks from 6 and 13 seasons ago!!

Your premise it is smart to dip right to the bottom to get access to the elite talent, as this helps drive a quick pop up...it is laughable.

But yes 15 years ago Essendon did that, 6 years ago Essendon did it again, and they still have a couple of those picks on their list...missed the part when they popped up and had success.

You are incapable or being deliberately obtuse to understand what I have wrote previously.

Like dipping for only a few seasons rather then 4 and then coming up. timing of when you rise is important and is what I was getting at with those picks.

You dont get that your premise of dipping for a couple of years and then popping up was driven by priority picks.

If you want to link top picks from 10+ seasons ago, sure you will find a top pick that was successful...after decades in the wilderness.

Deliberately engineering losses, simply isn't the answer.

Is your salary cap theory to add plenty of performance incentives and continually back-end contracts?

 

[stormskye]

Have we got king yet

 

[Everybody Panic]

No doubt Dusty is one of the Goats, but I can hardly see him being used as evidence you need top 5 picks when 3 of that 5 really went nowhere and Fyfe, Duncan, Gawn and Gunston all came out in the 20s or lower.

For those that say we have to keep our 2022 first round, are you also the ones saying we should throw everything at King? FWIW I think we should keep it unless it gave us access to 2 highly rated kids instead of 1.

 

[manicpie]

Apparently we are interested in Hayden mcclean from Sydney. Looked good today, 10 dis, 6 marks and 2 goals 1, not bad

 

[stormskye]

No doubt Dusty is one of the Goats, but I can hardly see him being used as evidence you need top 5 picks when 3 of that 5 really went nowhere and Fyfe, Duncan, Gawn and Gunston all came out in the 20s or lower.

For those that say we have to keep our 2022 first round, are you also the ones saying we should throw everything at King? FWIW I think we should keep it unless it gave us access to 2 highly rated kids instead of 1.

Next years first is untouchable, our last how many years trading should speak for itself. That said, if king was available 1000% it’s on the table

 

[TradeDraft]

Apparently we are interested in Hayden mcclean from Sydney. Looked good today, 10 dis, 6 marks and 2 goals 1, not bad

Nothing more than talk at the Moment.

Though I would not mind him at all

 

[Go Woods]

Next years first is untouchable, our last how many years trading should speak for itself. That said, if king was available 1000% it’s on the table

Yep our first next year is only fit for a ‘King’!

 

[Football God]

Have we got king yet

This is exactly what I posted last year but for Jezza Cameron and 2 years before that for Tom Lynch lol.

Ahh Collingwood.

 

[adammania9]

Liam McMahon will be better than Ben King

34

Ben King

Age

24

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.5

4star

T

0.5

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.5

5star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.2

3star

G

1.0

4star

 

[legendstatus]

Liam McMahon will be better than Ben King

34

Ben King

Age

24

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.5

4star

T

0.5

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

7.5

2star

K

5.6

2star

HB

1.9

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

0.3

1star

G

1.5

5star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.4

2star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.2

3star

G

1.0

4star

On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[adammania9]

On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

And let’s just say Buddy will no longer be the greatest indigenous goal kicker once Ash Johnson hangs up the boots

 

[loki04]

I’ve known lots of people who have advocated the same list management activities in the past but they’ve never tried to delude themselves that it wasn’t tanking. I will always advocate we pick the best possible team with the greatest potential to win. If it costs us 1 or 2 spots at the draft then so be it.

What if you have a line ball pick between a 19 yo and a borderline but best 22 type 29 y.o role player in terms of overall impact? In a rebuild?

You would advocate playing the the 29 yo as its your best team and he may hit a few more kpi's. Id go the slightly more inconsistent kids that has a future.

Is that tanking no it called being smart and playing for the future over a short term gratification at cost.

 

[loki04]

It wasn't I who tried to link M.Hurley with a current build!!


Draft picks from 6 and 13 seasons ago!!

Your premise it is smart to dip right to the bottom to get access to the elite talent, as this helps drive a quick pop up...it is laughable.

But yes 15 years ago Essendon did that, 6 years ago Essendon did it again, and they still have a couple of those picks on their list...missed the part when they popped up and had success.


You dont get that your premise of dipping for a couple of years and then popping up was driven by priority picks.

If you want to link top picks from 10+ seasons ago, sure you will find a top pick that was successful...after decades in the wilderness.

Deliberately engineering losses, simply isn't the answer.

Is your salary cap theory to add plenty of performance incentives and continually back-end contracts?

Essendon had a top 5 pick 3 years ago. I'm not against striving for best finish position and by product of that top 8 to 20 picks.
Hurley was added because he is a part of the current side infact is a vice captain! and was another top 5 pick that are apparently shit that teams don't want.

So you have flipped from Essendon as an example of a team only needing 8,9,10 picks and how great they are to now back tracking and admitting the dipped twice in a 12 year period to gain access to top line picks but its now shit?

You are the one from the start who read too far into wanting a development year and my position on needing top 5 talents part of a good rebuild for sustained success when the rebuild is done.

Teams can pinch one without them perhaps with luck and poor competition, although im yet to see a premiership side with 0 top 5 talent on the list.

My salary cap theory? you mean yours...trade for lists are what causes back ended deals and performance incentives...

 

[Sea fog]

Yep our first next year is only fit for a ‘King’!

He will pick Saints before us. What guns ever want to come to the Pies?

 

[loki04]

I’ve known lots of people who have advocated the same list management activities in the past but they’ve never tried to delude themselves that it wasn’t tanking. I will always advocate we pick the best possible team with the greatest potential to win. If it costs us 1 or 2 spots at the draft then so be it.

Haha simple minds. You just can't see it.

There is a right way and wrong way to do it and teams often do it, infact sometimes they have no choice. One can destroy a club the other is a blip on the radar the fact you and cheese dickanger can't see it is no surprise

 

[loki04]

No doubt Dusty is one of the Goats, but I can hardly see him being used as evidence you need top 5 picks when 3 of that 5 really went nowhere and Fyfe, Duncan, Gawn and Gunston all came out in the 20s or lower.

For those that say we have to keep our 2022 first round, are you also the ones saying we should throw everything at King? FWIW I think we should keep it unless it gave us access to 2 highly rated kids instead of 1.

You dont get Dusty without the top 5 pick. That's the point.
You dont get Pendles and Thomas.
You dont get Degoey.
You dont get Bontempelli, J.Kelly either.
You dont get Kennedy Franklin Roughead J.Cameron NicNat Fyfe...
You dont get Hodge, Judd or Ball or a Didak in their prime or for a reasonable list cap space cost.
Or any of the other great top 5s left out.


Without having access to that draft range you will very rarely have the chance or in that scenario luck to get a generational talent.

Astounding.

 

[stormskye]

He will pick Saints before us. What guns ever want to come to the Pies?

Yup saints are such a successful club.

 

[jackcass]

What if you have a line ball pick between a 19 yo and a borderline but best 22 type 29 y.o role player in terms of overall impact? In a rebuild?

You would advocate playing the the 29 yo as its your best team and he may hit a few more kpi's. Id go the slightly more inconsistent kids that has a future.

Is that tanking no it called being smart and playing for the future over a short term gratification at cost.

I pick the player I think gives us the greater chance of winning.

And it is called tanking to do otherwise. Kids will get their opportunity through form or injury to the incumbents. I'll leave it there.

 

[Rebuilder]

I think that sounds plausible. If we can pick up Horne and Daicos this draft, our midfield will be set.
There's no guarantees there will be a top KP forward in the top 5 players next year anyway. We will still have our second and can always trade up next year.

If you were North would you hand us the two best kids in the draft when you already had a claim on one of them?

 

[Billys Back]

If you were North would you hand us the two best kids in the draft when you already had a claim on one of them?

This was a hypothetical based on whether we still held our first pick. And yes maybe they would have thought about it if they moved from pick 1 to 2 this draft and added a potential top 3 or 4 pick next year. They may like 2 kids equally for their first.