Strategy Trade and List Management thread 3 (...The pining for the departed. Edition)

[TiAn_]

People are complaining about not getting enough for Hrovat & Stevens but glossing over the fact we got a key forward that's kicked 90 goals in his last 50 games for pick 76. And that includes a season where he was on the outer at his club.

My best 22 at the moment has Suckling & Dunkley not getting a game. Then we have Williams, Webb, Dale, Honeychurch, Jong...

Another injury catastrophe aside, at best Stevens would have been in and out of the team and Hrovat would have been in line for only a handful of games. I'd rather get games into the kids we already have and whomever we get at 18 and 26.

Hamling leaving just means Cordy returns to his natural position in the backline and Collins has more opportunity to play. They both have higher ceilings than Hamling imo.

Bluster about "taking a stance" and forcing fringe players to the PSD is incredibly short-sighted. Not only does it rob the club of any benefit from the player leaving, but it creates bad will with that player and his agent. Player movement in the AFL is a relationship business as much as a money business. Unnecessarily burning bridges is never good practice.

 

[dogzrule]

We need to make sure we play a home final against them this year. It was a stroke of luck that cement head got knocked out, and SJ didn't play, and that was the difference in the end.

We were the better side on the day, dominated play and Roughy was off for more time than Ward

Too bad for Johnson but he has always been a sniper remembering no Crameri or Murphy

Dogs Premiers 2016 nothing can ever take it away


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[doggies ftw]

Gonna be sad watching Koby, Hammers and the Rat in other colours, have always loved those boys. Was always bound to happen though. Reckon Rat and Joel will go on to have great careers while Koby will never be a superstar but will be terrific for the saints

 

[House_of_Dahl]

I think it would have been better to make Stevens walk to the PSD and send a message to others that we dont accept getting bent over for fringe players with talent. This was the time to send that message rather than a 11 pick upgrade between the 3rd and 4th round.

Everyone will continue to low ball our depth next year. And if Webb and Dale dont get opportunities next year, i bet we will all be pissed if they go for the same price as Stevens etc. If we sent Stevens to the PSD just maybe we might get fair deals for fringe players in the future.

Our list is still great without Stevens, Hrovat, Hamling, but we should of got better assets for them, either this year or next and definately without all the bs swapping of late picks.

Would achieve nothing positive. Uncontracted, can't get games, wants to leave for opportunities, and we didn't want to recontract as we need list spots. Not exactly a strong bargaining position for us...A bidding war was the only chance of decent offers and Steven's didn't have one. Forcing him to the PSD would only serve to make us look like dicks (which would be true), shows the player no respect for his service, and would make other players think twice about coming to us and question how they'll be treated if things don't work out.

 

[murphy2bedabest]

Our 2018 backline could look like

Cordy Collins wood
Jj Adams Biggs

I do think 1 of murphy Boyd or Morris could play on in 2018.

This also doesn't take into account any FA or trades we may make, or development of Williams smith or lynch

 

[fronkalicious]

Our 2018 backline could look like

Cordy Collins wood
Jj Adams Biggs

I do think 1 of murphy Boyd or Morris could play on in 2018.

This also doesn't take into account any FA or trades we may make, or development of Williams smith or lynch

Can't see Adams hanging around bro.

 

[Mattdougie]

So now that trade period is over I'd love to know.

Who the Richmond player was who enquired about coming to the dogs but the we said no?
Mattdougie who was the player you referred to that we had about 5 percent chance of getting.
And any other players in the background we were linked too.

I've already said the Richmond player was Elhouli and this was confirmed by Vital I believe.

Robbin Grey was the player that wanted to come to us but Port refused to deal in anyway. This was before trade period I actually don't even know if they had another crack at him during the week.

Honestly the only names mentioned during trade were we had a small interest in trying to get were Nankeris and Lids.

Other than that I heard zero which is why I went early last week we were going to do stuff all.

 

[VitalDread]

I've already said the Richmond player was Elhouli and this was confirmed by Vital I believe.

Robbin Grey was the player that wanted to come to us but Port refused to deal in anyway. This was before trade period I actually don't even know if they had another crack at him during the week.

Honestly the only names mentioned during trade were we had a small interest in trying to get were Nankeris and Lids.

Other than that I heard zero which is why I went early last week we were going to do stuff all.

That was more taking the piss on this board to annoy people

 

[Mattdougie]

That was more taking the piss on this board to annoy people

Lol I dont think we were ever keen but they had a look at him and then told his manager no thanks, the next day he re-signed for the Tigers.

 

[Beasht]

Robbie Gray out of contract end of next year?

 

[Yojimbo]

I've already said the Richmond player was Elhouli and this was confirmed by Vital I believe.

Robbin Grey was the player that wanted to come to us but Port refused to deal in anyway. This was before trade period I actually don't even know if they had another crack at him during the week.

Honestly the only names mentioned during trade were we had a small interest in trying to get were Nankeris and Lids.

Other than that I heard zero which is why I went early last week we were going to do stuff all.

C.B.V- Confirmed by Vital, there are three words you would like to
learn to ignore in the future if you are as smart as you lead us to
believe. LemmingsRUs Rule.

 

[Kretiukwasking]

Can't see Adams hanging around bro.

Fronk with that cap space we have in theory, is steven may in our sights for 12 months time do you think?

 

[murphy2bedabest]

Can't see Adams hanging around bro.

You might be right, but playing next year might ease him.

Either way cordy slots in and one of Williams or smith I'm steps up, and Roberts still there

Also FA and trade targets.

I'm not worried about about cover, we will work it out

 

[Zephiisdaman]

We are great traders. Remember getting Tom Boyd for pick 6 and Griff? What a wonderful trade, has already delivered and will only continue to give. Plus most trades are has-beens or never will be's so the whole trade week is generally over rated.

Still a long way to judge t

Nah you blokes are really fair traders who look after your players rather try to hold out of best possible value.

In the scheme of things you off loaded fringe players for nominal value, the net value is that players are more likely to come to the Dogs cause they know they'll be looked after.

I haven't been on BF to get involved in the Saints/Dogs shitfight but honestly creating a great culture is worth more than getting a 10 pick upgrade.

Good luck next year guys

Agree with all you say, I think most times we are too malleable in our trading. Griffen to GWS, forget Tom Boyd, we got screwed and he was contracted. Hrovat to Nth Melb. We got nailed. I'm not suggesting we ask for high 2nd round picks but fair picks. GWS got a lot more for Steele from you blokes than we did for Hrovat. Not saying Hrovat is worth more but he isn't that much worse either. Same goes for Koby, good player. We get 50 but swapping of picks also, he is better than that.
I understand contracts are part of it. Gibbs being example, but don't understand disparity in trade values.

 

[Mofra]

Ckoke is the interesting one. He kicked 4 on GWS this year. And its no surprise that for all their high picks they are still yet to identify s key position back to psrtner Davis.

Scared? Nope. Dogs have shown time and tjme again thst we are harder at the coal face. And thats where we beat them. Add back in Murphy, Crameri and Wallis too.

They had Patfull playing last year - he's since retired.

Tim Mohr and Aiden Corr aren't any worse than Fletcher Roberts - sorry, Premiership full back Fletcher Roberts.
Haynes is 192cm so the perfect size for a chop-out defender (Adams plays the same way really).

Their defence is ok - and remember their coach knows how to set up the web defence used by Clarko, Simpson, Bevo etc.

 

[Zephiisdaman]

If someone told you in June we'd:

1. Add Cloke at $200k a year
2. Lose hamling, hrovat and Stevens.
3. Bank a craptonne of cap space ($750k offered to Hurley).
4. Go to the draft with 2 picks inside 26
5. Win the flag

You'd wet your pants.

Great clubs don't sweat the small stuff (Hrovat and Stevens trades).

Agree on example given. Have no issue with our 3 outs, what I have an issue with is the price that is paid for our players. We sell cheap and apart from Cloke buy expensive. Boyd for example.

 

[Mofra]

A few posters have mentioned about our superior player development. I am never sure how much is due to the club and how much is natural and within the player anyway. Certainly a number (22) of players developed sufficently to win a flag but was that due to the club? Players like Dale, Honeychurch, Hrovat, Prudden (those 2 had injuries i know), Stevens seem to be at the same level they have always been under the same system. Recruiting and head coach seem to be our points of difference.

Look at Jackson Macrae vs Sam Mayes at Brisbane - similar players, similar u18 year, and track their development.
Check out Hamling's development under us vs his Geelong years.
Biggs was undervalued at Sydney but he's gone to another level with us.

I trust our development - we play kids earlier than many clubs too which helps, and our development really really improved as soon as we got our own VFL team. That's no coincidence.

 

[Mofra]

No chance of picking up x Richards

We have to take 3 picks at the draft as far as I know, and we only have 3 list spots available.
Xav Richards I see as a slight downgrade on Zaine Cordy TBH.

 

[Yojimbo]

They had Patfull playing last year - he's since retired.

Tim Mohr and Aiden Corr aren't any worse than Fletcher Roberts - sorry, Premiership full back Fletcher Roberts.
Haynes is 192cm so the perfect size for a chop-out defender (Adams plays the same way really).

Their defence is ok - and remember their coach knows how to set up the web defence used by Clarko, Simpson, Bevo etc.

Adam Tomlinson played on Cloke and he was wearing the illegal
sticky glove that day which they were fined for.

 

[Zephiisdaman]

In a trading year with so much spuds going around, seems the only winner out of all these is St Kilda, everybody else have a bit bitter taste.

Sign.... move on to Draft thread and next year..

Melbourne did ok, won by getting rid of Dunn for a starter.

 

[BEaston]

I think it would have been better to make Stevens walk to the PSD and send a message to others that we dont accept getting bent over for fringe players with talent. This was the time to send that message rather than a 11 pick upgrade between the 3rd and 4th round.

Everyone will continue to low ball our depth next year. And if Webb and Dale dont get opportunities next year, i bet we will all be pissed if they go for the same price as Stevens etc. If we sent Stevens to the PSD just maybe we might get fair deals for fringe players in the future.

Our list is still great without Stevens, Hrovat, Hamling, but we should of got better assets for them, either this year or next and definately without all the bs swapping of late picks.

Why? As JMac said it was our strategy to get 3 picks inside 50, Stevens allowed us to do that.

Also these are players that have given their all for the Dogs, it's good that we try to look after them to some degree. For every Stevens trade, there's a Biggs. For every Hrovat, there's a Cloke.

 

[Doggies_13]

Not that fazed with our trade period yes we were quiet but there was not a lot out there that suited our needs, we managed to have two top 26 picks after just winning a premiership and upgraded some picks for next year.

It's good to see gws are no longer getting first rounders whenever they lose a player they are at best getting late seconds.

Something I posted earlier in the off season was that looking at our list who are our bottom 5? If you look at it our depth is so even and has so much upside that excluding the the rookies guys like dale jong and Webb are probably named in that bottom 5 yet they have massive upside and wouldn't look out of place in our 22 that speaks volumes for the strength of our list.

Looking towards the draft is there a chance long is still there at 50? Also what do guys who know the draft well see being available at 18 and 26?

 

[BEaston]

Agree on example given. Have no issue with our 3 outs, what I have an issue with is the price that is paid for our players. We sell cheap and apart from Cloke buy expensive. Boyd for example.

I think you're overrating our own players' worth.

 

[ExRoyboy]

No matter how you dissect it our inability to get even close to net worth for some of our players is worrying... I suppose 3 picks inside 50 gives Dal something to work with but can't help but think it should have been better

While I understand your point, it's much harder when they are out of contract. Remember that we need to make three list changes at a minimum to stay within AFL rules so that makes it harder also. We only had one retirement in Will, so the others were going to be delistings and the other clubs know this so it definitely weakens your bargaining position. St.Kilda could have picked up Koby in the PSD and I would have thought Hrovat also would have found another home also that way so what do you really have to bargain with. It's very different if they are contracted or in heavy demand. Hamling was probably the worst trade when you consider he is now a premiership KPD. They don't grow on trees but again, he was out of contract and Freo would have picked him up in the PSD if we didn't trade him as they would have had an early pick.

All of these things have to be considered. In addition, given we were only going to use three draft selections it didn't really matter what happened with our later picks, it was all about moving up higher in the draft to give Dal the best chance at doing his thing. No point having four late selections left on the table that could have been packaged up to get even a few places higher.

Given the weak bargaining position that we started with, all in all, I thought J Mac did a pretty good job. No huge losses, although I would have preferred if Hamling stayed but that couldn't be helped, and we have moved up in the second round from 40 to 26 and from 60 to 50 in round 3. Considering we will only make three selections that's pretty good work.

 

[Bont2Bruce]

Agree on example given. Have no issue with our 3 outs, what I have an issue with is the price that is paid for our players. We sell cheap and apart from Cloke buy expensive. Boyd for example.

Biggs?