Strategy Trade and List Management thread 3 (...The pining for the departed. Edition)

[Rookie]

Minson, Hamling, Hrovat, Stevens out
Cloke, three draft picks in.

If we delist Prudden, and we should, we can convince O'Shea to come to us as a DFA.

We can then rookie list Prudden and a ruck.

 

[Golden_6]

Prudden should absolutely be moved to the rookie list if a suitable free agent comes along. The club can still stick by him in this scenario whilst still giving him the chance to be upgraded to the senior list to play later in the year.

 

[Mutt]

Prudden should absolutely be moved to the rookie list if a suitable free agent comes along. The club can still stick by him in this scenario whilst still giving him the chance to be upgraded to the senior list to play later in the year.

We could delist and rookie Prudden and immediately place him on the senior list under the LTI Rule for Redpath... if we really wanted Josh on the main list. By the time Red is back, we would be able to do the mid-year rookie upgrade, so Josh could stay on the main list for the whole year if we wanted to go that way.

 

[Bont2Bruce]

Before he got injured, Prudden was in the bottom two rungs of those on our senior list in 2016, along with Hamilton. Yet we re-signed Hamilton.

I wouldn't be surprised to see us offer Prudden a senior list contract.

I don't think he's got what it takes to make it in the AFL however, and would be more interested in exploring another option in a DFA.

 

[Dry Rot]

Hoping for O'Shea. We are one kpd short imo.

Tell me more about O'Shea. Can't seem to get a game in an ordinary team like Port.

 

[Bont2Bruce]

Tell me more about O'Shea. Can't seem to get a game in an ordinary team like Port.

Plenty on the Port board would be happy to see him delisted.

Cam O'Shea is like Toby Thurstans. Crap during home and away matches, and a gun during finals.

I'd have O'Shea as a top 5 finals player across those years we played finals.

The problem is, and this goes for the whole club, you actually need to be good in the 22 weeks leading up to finals. With the exception of Tom Boyd, that's where players should be judged.

He's definitely got something to work with, but is he part of the problem or a victim of it?

 

[dergert]

Tell me more about O'Shea. Can't seem to get a game in an ordinary team like Port.

More of a reader of the play which would suit our zones in defence imo. Not the big hulking 1v1 type. Port have used him around the ground too. I've only seen him play three times and think there is a bit to work with.
Important to keep in mind that hamling was not getting a go in Geelongs back line either.

 

[TMoney22]

Would achieve nothing positive. Uncontracted, can't get games, wants to leave for opportunities, and we didn't want to recontract as we need list spots. Not exactly a strong bargaining position for us...A bidding war was the only chance of decent offers and Steven's didn't have one. Forcing him to the PSD would only serve to make us look like dicks (which would be true), shows the player no respect for his service, and would make other players think twice about coming to us and question how they'll be treated if things don't work out.

Why? As JMac said it was our strategy to get 3 picks inside 50, Stevens allowed us to do that.

Also these are players that have given their all for the Dogs, it's good that we try to look after them to some degree. For every Stevens trade, there's a Biggs. For every Hrovat, there's a Cloke.

I do agree with you guys but i think at some stage we need to get tough as it will get worse for every club each trade period. We got Hrovat and Hamling to where they wanted, i thought Stevens we could of made some sort of stance without losing anything in terms of the pick we get back. And we was pissed with us anyway.

But i'm probably more upset that Stevens is gone. He's cracked it when Jong was put before him. Then he had no motivation for the 2nd half of the year. Understandable as he is better but also unprofessional.

 

[True Dog]

While I understand your point, it's much harder when they are out of contract. Remember that we need to make three list changes at a minimum to stay within AFL rules so that makes it harder also. We only had one retirement in Will, so the others were going to be delistings and the other clubs know this so it definitely weakens your bargaining position. St.Kilda could have picked up Koby in the PSD and I would have thought Hrovat also would have found another home also that way so what do you really have to bargain with. It's very different if they are contracted or in heavy demand. Hamling was probably the worst trade when you consider he is now a premiership KPD. They don't grow on trees but again, he was out of contract and Freo would have picked him up in the PSD if we didn't trade him as they would have had an early pick.

All of these things have to be considered. In addition, given we were only going to use three draft selections it didn't really matter what happened with our later picks, it was all about moving up higher in the draft to give Dal the best chance at doing his thing. No point having four late selections left on the table that could have been packaged up to get even a few places higher.

Given the weak bargaining position that we started with, all in all, I thought J Mac did a pretty good job. No huge losses, although I would have preferred if Hamling stayed but that couldn't be helped, and we have moved up in the second round from 40 to 26 and from 60 to 50 in round 3. Considering we will only make three selections that's pretty good work.

I agree with what you're saying ExRoyboy, we sat at the poker table with a pair of duces and the whole room knew it! I guess I'm questioning whose fault is that? Could/should have tougher decisions been made earlier? Why sign Declan Hamilton so early? Having list spots available throws another option in the mix, adds an element of doubt opens up the possibility of trading instead of accepting inferior picks? Why keep Hrovat another year when an above market value offer was on the table last trade period?

I guess I feel it's an area we can still get better at

 

[Ant_]

No surprises how Schmuck rated St Kilda

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-20/trade-verdict-how-did-your-club-fare-during-the-trade-period

 

[Mutt]

I agree with what you're saying ExRoyboy, we sat at the poker table with a pair of duces and the whole room knew it! I guess I'm questioning whose fault is that? Could/should have tougher decisions been made earlier? Why sign Declan Hamilton so early? Having list spots available throws another option in the mix, adds an element of doubt opens up the possibility of trading instead of accepting inferior picks? Why keep Hrovat another year when an above market value offer was on the table last trade period?

I guess I feel it's an area we can still get better at

There is so much about each and every player's situation and every trade scenario that we on this forum don't know about. I find it very hard to judge our trade performance because of the vast information gap that confronts those of us on the outside.

 

[BRWB]

The difficulty next year apart from winning back to back is actually seeing how we give our younger players enough first 22 opportunity to retain them.

With that in mind, given the players available, I'm ok with sitting quietly.

If he isn't cooked, Cloke adds some depth.

Moving up in the draft for two picks inside 30 when many talent watchers are saying a blanket can be thrown over P8-P30 is exciting with our draft history.

IMO people had unrealistic expectations of what we'd get for our uncontracted non best 22 players. On reflection, we did relatively well with Hamling.

I get the feeling that Ameet Baines is channelling Dodoro, and that this will be remembered. What comes around goes around Ameet.

 

[JJHunter]

I think it made a difference that they were dealing with Gold Coast. If Hrovat had picked Gold Coast as his destination club then I think we would have got a better deal. They had an abundance of picks and were desperate for some established players which gave Adelaide a better bargaining position. Much harder dealing with fellow Melbourne clubs.

Possibly. After hearing Jmac on the website last night I can understand the position.
But man when you see 24 for Caddy and 34 for Lyons - it bites.
Stevens was better than Caddy in almost all statistical categories in 2016.

What we started the draft with........
18, 36,54,72

After trade period and seeing Stevens, Hvorat and Hamling walk turned that into
18, 26, 50, 75

Hardly anything to write home about for losing the quality we did across 3 players.

 

[SedatSir316]

No surprises how Schmuck rated St Kilda

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-20/trade-verdict-how-did-your-club-fare-during-the-trade-period

They did really well securing the Hawks pick, giving them two 1st rounders next year. As for the players they brought in it adds to their depth for sure, something we saw was crucial to us copping with all our injuries this year. It doesn't address that their list still lacks any real 'A' graders anywhere, but I fully expect them to challenge the Demons and Dockers for that 8th spot next year.

 

[gangsta deluxe]

No surprises how Schmuck rated St Kilda

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-20/trade-verdict-how-did-your-club-fare-during-the-trade-period

He didnt even get their report right, Stevens isn't in it.

 

[Barking Mad]

I do agree with you guys but i think at some stage we need to get tough as it will get worse for every club each trade period. We got Hrovat and Hamling to where they wanted, i thought Stevens we could of made some sort of stance without losing anything in terms of the pick we get back. And we was pissed with us anyway.

But i'm probably more upset that Stevens is gone. He's cracked it when Jong was put before him. Then he had no motivation for the 2nd half of the year. Understandable as he is better but also unprofessional.

Guess we win then as nobody could (should) argue that Jong is full of heart and passion. He still has a bit to improve but pretty sure when he runs out for a game the other 21 know what they'll get from him. Good on him (and Honey/Campbell)) for putting their hands up and be willing to fight for a spot. the club is far bigger than the 22 who run out each week. Koby looked at times as a beast out there but maybe wasn't willing to fight for what he believed was rightfully his or decided some more coin/promises of more opportunity would set him up better for the future.
The rick is now to keep them contracted so their currency, should we decide to part ways with anyone on the list.

 

[BRWB]

He didnt even get their report right, Stevens isn't in it.

Watched Schnook on AFL TV for the first time a couple of days ago.

He presents as having some special needs - so I'm not sure we should be too hard in him.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Possibly. After hearing Jmac on the website last night I can understand the position.
But man when you see 24 for Caddy and 34 for Lyons - it bites.
Stevens was better than Caddy in almost all statistical categories in 2016.

What we started the draft with........
18, 36,54,72

After trade period and seeing Stevens, Hvorat and Hamling walk turned that into
18, 26, 50, 75

Hardly anything to write home about for losing the quality we did across 3 players.

Once again though, we're talking about VFL depth players who would have walked to the PSD. We moved our second up 10 spots, which is gold dust to our recruiting genius.

 

[Bont2Bruce]

What we started the draft with........
18, 36,54,72

After trade period and seeing Stevens, Hvorat and Hamling walk turned that into
18, 26, 50, 75

We actually started with 18, 40, 63, 75 and 76 when all the extra priority/compensation picks are factored in.
We never had our 2017 3rd round pick to use, because we gave it to Carlton in a 2015 pick swap.

 

[gangsta deluxe]

Barrett's sliding doors:

Western Bulldogs
you went all-out at Hurley and made a significant play for Deledio and ended up settling for Cloke ...

... it just doesn't matter, does it? You're the bloody premiers!



Jesus, he's the only person capable of the mental gymnastics required to take a snipe at you while simultaneously fellating you. It's like he has a disposition to the most manipulative, base kind of cynicism you can imagine.

 

[go you pups]

Josh Kelly should be one of our main targets next year, Reckon Bont and Toyd will be in his ear all year

Bit vanilla for me

But men, will watch him closely next year, seems he was racking up a lot of the footy towards the back end.

 

[BRWB]

Bit vanilla for me

But men, will watch him closely next year, seems he was racking up a lot of the footy towards the back end.

Kelly is silk IMO. Perfect fit for us. Hard to get you'd think.

 

[Cadillac]

Kelly is silk IMO. Perfect fit for us. Hard to get you'd think.

Every club in Victoria wil be after him. Wouldn't surprise me if someone like North offer him 1mill a year. Especially if he makes All Australian next season.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Barrett's sliding doors:

Western Bulldogs
you went all-out at Hurley and made a significant play for Deledio and ended up settling for Cloke ...

... it just doesn't matter, does it? You're the bloody premiers!



Jesus, he's the only person capable of the mental gymnastics required to take a snipe at you while simultaneously fellating you. It's like he has a disposition to the most manipulative, base kind of cynicism you can imagine.

For once he's got it spot on. Hurley was never leaving and Deledio is going to the cashed up retirement village for ageing stars.

We are premiers and we did it not by aggressive trading (Boyd aside) but by smart drafting, canny rookie selections and picking players nobody else wanted.

We'll just sit on our sack of salary cap cash for 12 months.

 

[BRWB]

Every club in Victoria wil be after him. Wouldn't surprise me if someone like North offer him 1mill a year. Especially if he makes All Australian next season.

If we beat his current team in finals again next year - maybe he prioritises success - with a real club.

Not every player is a self obsessed money hungry flog. Oh and hope Lids enjoys Blacktown..