Strategy Trade and List .Management thread 5 (...the post coitus cigarette. Edition)

[Clay]

I feel physically ill after that final hour of trades.
Look forward to watching some of Schache's highlights...

Can you imagine being an Essendrugs supporter and watching Stringer's highlights video knowing that he's coming to play for them.
f##k I'm jealous

Ah yes.

But then they also get to experience the gradual realisation that he doesn’t compete in the air, apply defensive pressure or otherwise make much of an effort at all.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Agree, I loved Jake and being at the games you could just hear the excitement level in the crowd rise whenever he was near it.

Which often turned to groans of disappointment during the last 12 months

 

[BRWB]

But the net result is all that counts. Surely you can see that?

The assets from Essendon were instrumental in getting both the pick 16 and Schache deals done. It's why some on here were asking those who were losing their heads to just chill and wait until 2:00pm Thursday. You can't judge a trade period for years probably, but you certainly can't judge it before it's even finished.

You can certainly judge whether we obtained fair value on trade outs of established players IMO. And JMac consistently fails. He even failed to meet his own publicly nominated standard of a high first rd pick for Stringer. Sorry but that is out and out failure.

Agree we can't judge Schache for...5 years?? But IMO you can't teach competitiveness. McGuane's assessment that he wouldn't go near him was damning. (Mick has a good a footy brain as anyone IMO)

And who knows what trading out next yr's second will cost. I've a sickening feeling that this move could be the worst of the lot.

 

[Ant_]

Ahh we blinked, what a disappointment.

 

[Sentinel]

How much home work have we done with Schache? Any gossip, mid-season meetings was it a reflex during draft week?

Matthew Lloyd's recent Herald Sun article indicated that we'd been into him for a couple of months so it wasn't a late play at all.

 

[Roscoe_au]

Can someone confirm for me that the club was offered Pick 11 for Stringleder from Essenscum? Having a side argument and pretty sure that the mention of Pick 11 came from Connors and the media - not the club.

 

[Mutt]

I think we were dudded on the specific Essendon trade (compare to Charlie Cameron for Pick 12) but not by a massive amount. What I am most unhappy about was the Carlton trade that gave away our future 2nd. That was an insanely bad deal from our point of view.

OK. If we had held out and refused to trade our 2018 second and the Carlton trade had subsequently fallen over, how would you feel? No pick #16. Probably no Schache.

It's so hard to pass judgement when we weren't in the room. That's why the overall net result to the club is the most sensible way to look at it in my view. We could find fault with every single element of every trade...we, theoretically, could always have done better in every transaction. Meanwhile, back in the real world, shit happens, variables change with not a moment's notice, other parties change their minds and the clock ticks.

I'm not defending the team. Just saying it's easy to be armchair quarterbacks.

 

[inyourfacedunk]

Can someone confirm for me that the club was offered Pick 11 for Stringleder from Essenscum? Having a side argument and pretty sure that the mention of Pick 11 came from Connors and the media - not the club.

Was reported that the offer was 11 for Stringer + 26.

 

[Roscoe_au]

Ah yes.

But then they also get to experience the gradual realisation that he doesn’t compete in the air, apply defensive pressure or otherwise make much of an effort at all.

Wont put in at training, wont block for team mates, wont attend compulsory rehab appointments, wont attend counselling for off-field issues.

However, he will bully others, complain when he's not the focus, avoid club appointments and ignore requests about straightening up.

All in all...team mate of the year material.

 

[doggies ftw]

Ehh would be feeling a hell of a lot better if that was our 2018 3rd rounder which would be more than fair but **** it is what it is just glad it's all over. No doubt we've lost but we've made something out of a veryyy bad situation, eat a dick Jake. Very keen to see what Fronks has to say about him! If you've got any info nows ya time to slander away, hell I don't care if it's true or false!

Still very optimistic for next year and just Think, last year Dal scored English, who we'd all agree is a blue chip prospect. This year we've got a slightly better pick than last. Plus a top 10 pick! Giving Dal another crack at the top 10 is huge for us.

Upside with Schache is still massive too, although like most I'm not sold.

Very happy with Crozier and Trengove.

Also I think people put way too much blame on Jmac, look I dunno how it works but I higggghly doubt Jmac makes all this decisions himself, think that's a wayyy too simplistic way to look at it

 

[Roscoe_au]

Was reported that the offer was 11 for Stringer + 26.

But did Essendrug confirm that? Or, was it speculation?

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

From our point of view, we would hope that he's been 'lying doggo' in his attempt to return home and/or there is still plenty of improvement in a 20 year old who has previously shown abundant talent.

Not sure I like that attitude

 

[Rookie]

Let's not underestimate how much work the club will have to do with Schache. I have no idea what his issues are, but his welfare has to come first. I hope he and Boyd can bond over similar experiences, and Cloke can provide guidance and direction to both of them. Mostly, I hope we give Josh all the time and support to get himself right. What he contributes in 2018 is almost irrelevant. We now have two young potential blue-chip forward assets who we must treat and support primarily as people first, and then as players. Guidance, support and love. Off-field performance begets better on-field performance which in turn begets better off-field performance.

Cloke in some kind of player-coach role is a key part of that. More will be needed. I'm backing the club to get it right.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

Hey guys at least we arnt st kilda

 

[Mutt]

You can certainly judge whether we obtained fair value on trade outs of established players IMO. And JMac consistently fails. He even failed to meet his own publicly nominated standard of a high first rd pick for Stringer. Sorry but that is out and out failure.

Agree we can't judge Schache for...5 years?? But IMO you can't teach competitiveness. McGuane's assessment that he wouldn't go near him was damning. (Mick has a good a footy brain as anyone IMO)

And who knows what trading out next yr's second will cost. I've a sickening feeling that this move could be the worst of the lot.

JMac made a statement about what we wanted for Stringer and of course he wasn't going to lowball himself.

Do you think we were serious about taking Stringer back? There is so much we don't know about each element of each trade. How can we say with certainty that we were ever a realistic chance of getting a top 10 pick. I have no idea whether that was ever on the cards. Tell me how you know for sure we could have received a top 10 pick for Stringer.

 

[.M a t t.]

I feel physically ill after that final hour of trades.
Look forward to watching some of Schache's highlights...

Can you imagine being an Essendrugs supporter and watching Stringer's highlights video knowing that he's coming to play for them.
f##k I'm jealous

Imagine being an Essendope supporter when Jake ****s up again or continues being lazy on the field...

 

[stefoid]

Ah yes.

But then they also get to experience the gradual realisation that he doesn’t compete in the air, apply defensive pressure or otherwise make much of an effort at all.

Not relevant, Dons playing him in the midfield. Hes promised to improve his fitness, so...

 

[Ant_]

What was the details of the Carlton trade?

 

[Butane]

So what picks do we have this year now? I lost all my bearings as the trades started coming in.

 

[Roscoe_au]

If Boyd's welfare was compromised by some unrelenting bullying by Stringdiddler (as rumored) as well as some others who have since been read the riot act and the main offending party has gone, then I am looking forward to 2018.

Will be interesting to see an abundance of talls playing - especially if English has a good preseason and earns a place in the side.

Only need Collins to kick on now.

 

[Igloo]

So what picks do we have this year now? I lost all my bearings as the trades started coming in.

9, 16 and then some shit in the area of 80+.

 

[Bont2Bruce]

OK. If we had held out and refused to trade our 2018 second and the Carlton trade had subsequently fallen over, how would you feel? No pick #16. Probably no Schache.

Sorry, don't agree with your logic there. We traded Schache for 25 and 40 and having acquired 16 had nothing to do with this going through.

We only needed to grab Carlton's third (40) to go with 25 for the Schache deal to work, and at that time we had 28 and 30 and all our future picks to play with.

There is no doubt that we overpaid Carlton for Picks 16 and 40, at a point during the overall negotiations timeline that we had more than enough resources to secure Schache for what turned out to be the final asking price.

 

[Butane]

9, 16 and then some shit in the area of 80+.

Perfect. We take 2 top end talent guys in a shallow draft and upgrade Smith with that pick the 80's. Also keep 1 of Crameri and Honey too I guess or do we have enough list space?

 

[LordC]

Sorry for my clueless question but is he our academe player?

Khamis is the academy kid. If he has any level of talent I think we take him at some point, just to show we are supporting the program and encouraging others down that pathway.


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[Le Archie]

Wanted to say no hard feelings guys, was an interesting trade period. Reckon you guys nailed the Schache trade at the end.
Good luck for next year.