Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 5 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Smiley Boy]

Heard a rumour today we’re trying to pry Barrass out of the eagles

 

[Deadly Darcy]

IF Dunkley decides to go, I would look at moving Treloar with him. That way they keep their bromance going and we can ask for more in return. Treloar on only $500k is good value for proven midfielder.

Say North want Dunks, we give them both boys and get pick 1 plus change in return (young KPD or T Thomas or small forward or another draft pick). That would drastically improve North on-field. It would give them the opportunity to sell hope to their members and players far better than pick 1. They keep the PSD pick for another player and get much better in 1 year.

IF it’s Bombers, Hawks or Port, similar story but get more in the steal knives.

I would rather keep Dunks but IF he goes, send Treloar too and cash in.

I though mcrae had returned and then saw it was one of our smartest posters who had written this dribble . I expect better from you LittleG .

We are still in our window. Trading two gun mids who may help jag us another flag for a kid who will take 5 - 7 years to hit his prime is a hard pass from me. Particularly as we can’t get Ashcroft.

 

[Deadly Darcy]

We could get Lever, May and Lobb and we would not win the GF due to how we play, especially our so called team defence.

Game plan is the first priority. Lock down key defender is second priority and Lobb would be ok but do we need him with Darcy possibly ready in 2023.

A fwd line of Naughton, JUH and Darcy would be quite potent next year with good delivery. Bruce is a bonus.

Either way the list is full of talent. The best way to keep it together is sustained success and this something Bevo has proven he is incapable of.

**** me we were in the grand final 8 months ago? Some of you blokes just want to bbq Bevo’s left testical for the sake of it. Injuries to key players have crucified us this year not the coach.

 

[doggies ftw]

English is more than capable of playing 80%+ ruck time very effectively as he's shown this year. No way we're reducing that down to 60%, makes the team much worse.
Lobb is a better forward, to get the best output for the team you'd leave them in their best positions as long as possible.

Mm I disagree, against decent oppositions he’s tired and been worked over in the back end of games - as anyone would be.

In your scenario you’re thinking 80% TOG, all in the ruck and 20% bench? Wouldn’t you prefer say roughly 60-65% time in the ruck and 25-35% time forward and minimal time on the bench and still kept fresh? Gives us a different look down forward where he’s very very dangerous, can drop back - the benefit to getting a good second ruck is that we can free him up there’s zero chance we’d waste that opportunity tbh

Gawns the best ruck in the league by a mile, he plays roughly 60% ruck it’s pretty standard

Also - “to get the best output for the team you'd leave them in their best positions as long as possible.”

You’d think so but lemme introduce you to one Mr Beveridge

 

[adogsfan5]

Heard a rumour today we’re trying to pry Barrass out of the eagles

Would be huge if true.

 

[doggies ftw]

Would be huge if true.

Signed a 5yr contract last year, may have cold feet now he realises he’s going to see out his career at the bottom of the ladder but still makes it very very tough.

Woulda been a free agent too would have been perfect

 

[dergert]

Would be huge if true.

Would wipe us out draft wise for the next two years. We need more than Barrass down there imo.

 

[adogsfan5]

Would wipe us out draft wise for the next two years. We need more than Barrass down there imo.

That and structurally/game plan yes.

 

[doggies ftw]

I maintain the right systems can turn some very average c graders into borderline a grade intercept defenders. Really think 70% of our issues is coaching/gameplan related.

It doesn’t even need to be C graders, we have some fantastic players going through in Dale, Daniel (2 All Australians, even if they are offensively minded) Keath, Red & Doc, one of the best rucks in the league at dropping back to take contested marks, it’s not like the line is littered with spuds.

Even Croz was borderline A grade at one point and is now nowhere.

Our midfield cops a lot of slack for how poor they are defensively yet Bont, Dunks, Libba & Macrae would have to be one of the best groups of defensive mids in the league

Can’t stress enough that it’s not personnel based but a fundamentally flawed system, from full back to full forward & everything inbetween.

Too much reliance on all or nothing offensive ball movement which completely and utterly opens us up the other way - which good teams have now worked out.

 

[doggies ftw]

Would wipe us out draft wise for the next two years. We need more than Barrass down there imo.

If we couldn’t build a solid enough defence around Keath, Barrass, Gardner, Red, Doc, Dale & Daniel we’ve got problems!

If there’s any chances of bringing in both Barrass & Lobb you’d take it even if it wipes us out of 2 drafts - would still have 2 elite young talents out of the side in JUH & Darcy, plus the likes of Baz & Naughty as elite young talent.

 

[josh the gent]

If he left, Eagles would be looking for a salary dump to offset minimal trade value. I doubt they'd then cover most of his salary.

In that scenario i posted - the Eagles get a decent draft pick in exchange for paying most of McGovern’s salary for 2 years while he plays for us.

Eagles are not challenging at the moment, wouldn’t that trade actually suit them?

 

[Smiley Boy]

Would wipe us out draft wise for the next two years. We need more than Barrass down there imo.

Not necessarily depends what happens with Dunkley really..

 

[BeMoreBont]

With Jackson looking likely to head west to Freo, theoretically that should work in our favour with the Lobb negotiations.

The biggest concern I have is how will Freo satisfy Melbourne in a trade? Melbourne are clearly in their window and will need a Jackson replacement. They surely ask for Lobb as part of any deal... And why wouldn't Lobb want to play for Melbourne for his last few years? It's not like we are offering ridiculous money for him.

I hope it gets done, however I can easily see him heading to Melbourne as part of a Jackson trade.

 

[weltschmerz]

With Jackson looking likely to head west to Freo, theoretically that should work in our favour with the Lobb negotiations.

The biggest concern I have is how will Freo satisfy Melbourne in a trade? Melbourne are clearly in their window and will need a Jackson replacement. They surely ask for Lobb as part of any deal... And why wouldn't Lobb want to play for Melbourne for his last few years? It's not like we are offering ridiculous money for him.

I hope it gets done, however I can easily see him heading to Melbourne as part of a Jackson trade.

Meek could come back to them as part of the trade.

 

[BeMoreBont]

Meek could come back to them as part of the trade.

Meek would be pointless IMO. They won't play Gawn and Meek together. Sweet has more forward craft than Meek! They need a ruck/forward that can play that role while they contend for a flag for the next few years.

 

[BulldogMuscle]

Word from a pretty reliable source on the Bulldogs Discord group is as follows, but as everything of this nature at this time of year TAKE IT ALL WITH A GRAIN OF SALT:

-Stefan Martin

8

Stefan Martin

Age

38

Ht

198cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.4

4star

K

8.4

3star

HB

8.0

5star

CL

4.0

5star

HO

23.5

5star

D

6.4

1star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.2

2star

CL

2.6

4star

HO

18.4

5star

D

11.6

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

5.6

4star

HO

1.0

4star

has pretty much retired at this point, isn't expected to play another senior game this year unless both Sweet/English can't play, is staying on in a ruck-coaching job
-Recruitment team was in WA for an extended period last week, met with several player managers from both WCE and Freo, we are chasing a combo including McGovern, Lobb, Logue, Pierce and Barass, trying to shake a pair of defenders from their clubs.
-Club is backing in English to be our number one ruckman long term, beyond the two years he just signed, will not go chasing another number 1 ruck again
-Club knows we have defensive issues, big focus within the four walls
-Rohan Smith

Rohan Smith

Age

51

Ht

184cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.2

4star

K

11.9

4star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.5

4star

T

1.2

3star

No current season stats available

D

11.8

3star

K

8.2

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.4

2star

T

1.2

3star

is expected to step down as our senior assistant / defensive coach role this year, replacement unknown, internal pressure building, higher ups not happy with how this season has gone.

 

[Northernsoul74]

Word from a pretty reliable source on the Bulldogs Discord group is as follows, but as everything of this nature at this time of year TAKE IT ALL WITH A GRAIN OF SALT:

-Stefan Martin has pretty much retired at this point, isn't expected to play another senior game this year unless both Sweet/English can't play, is staying on in a ruck-coaching job
-Recruitment team was in WA for an extended period last week, met with several player managers from both WCE and Freo, we are chasing a combo including McGovern, Lobb, Logue, Pierce and Barass, trying to shake a pair of defenders from their clubs.
-Club is backing in English to be our number one ruckman long term, beyond the two years he just signed, will not go chasing another number 1 ruck again
-Club knows we have defensive issues, big focus within the four walls
-Rohan Smith is expected to step down as our senior assistant / defensive coach role this year, replacement unknown, internal pressure building, higher ups not happy with how this season has gone.

2 defenders? I just don’t see how we have the cap/assets for that assuming Lobb is a thing as well.

 

[Sentinel]

If we couldn’t build a solid enough defence around Keath, Barrass, Gardner, Red, Doc, Dale & Daniel we’ve got problems!

If there’s any chances of bringing in both Barrass & Lobb you’d take it even if it wipes us out of 2 drafts - would still have 2 elite young talents out of the side in JUH & Darcy, plus the likes of Baz & Naughty as elite young talent.

The one issue I see with wiping ourselves out of 2 more drafts is that we already did that the previous 2, save for JUH and Darcy. Would mean bringing in just 2 high level (1st or 2nd round talent) kids in 4 years. I'm not saying it's necessarily the wrong approach if we're chasing a flag in the short term, but it could have longer term ramifications.

 

[Bald]

2 defenders? I just don’t see how we have the cap/assets for that assuming Lobb is a thing as well.

Alex Pearce is a free agent so no assets required there. McGovern would be a salary dump so there’s not a lot of assets required there. Logue will require a trade obviously. Lobb is more or less a salary dump for Fremantle as well assuming they secure Jackson.

I assume the club is preparing for life after Josh Dunkley who would be on 500-600k, we will likely also have Mitch Wallis, Stefan Martin and possibly Zaine Cordy off the books. I’d expect these collectively are paid $800k and JJs contract is up this year and he was on 650k.

 

[grassman75]

Yeah absolutely - probably the hardest thing in footy to do really. That’s what people who Want to send him to the backline don’t really get, you can’t just replace that, there’s no one in the comp that does it like him. I guarantee someone like Cameron doesn’t kick as many goals as he usually does if he was in our forward line.

Although sometimes I think we fall into the trap of just bombing it in because we know we’ve got him there, so maybe we’d actually learn to hit up targets if we didn’t just rely on him

We've bombed it in there most of the time I've watched the Doggies - doesn't matter if it was Jade Rawlings, Liam Jones or Astro.

Our much vaunted kids can't seem to get the lower your eyes bit right

 

[Foxman98]

Alex Pearce is a free agent so no assets required there. McGovern would be a salary dump so there’s not a lot of assets required there. Logue will require a trade obviously. Lobb is more or less a salary dump for Fremantle as well assuming they secure Jackson.

I assume the club is preparing for life after Josh Dunkley who would be on 500-600k, we will likely also have Mitch Wallis, Stefan Martin and possibly Zaine Cordy off the books. I’d expect these collectively are paid $800k and JJs contract is up this year and he was on 650k.

Realistically if we can turn Dunkley (1st rounder) into Barass and the get Pearce as a FA we will have a much stronger backline with depth then draft one to develop with our first we will be set longer term too as Barrass/Pearce are both 27 next year. Lobb for a 2nd gives us a genuine ruck/forward which helps structurally both in the mids and u forward. Obviously will be a juggle capwise but could set us up for an immediate lift and we can all dream

 

[dergert]

Can't scapegoat Rohan Smith

Rohan Smith

Age

51

Ht

184cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.2

4star

K

11.9

4star

HB

5.2

4star

M

4.5

4star

T

1.2

3star

No current season stats available

D

11.8

3star

K

8.2

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.4

2star

T

1.2

3star

after one bad year. He's been our most solid line coach.

 

[grassman75]

Good points and well written-up Al Dente, however I would rather a more speculative stab at the next JJ, Harbrow etc than a solid citizen with limited capability (not mentioning names).

Similarly, I would rather our team wins a Premiership once every ten years, and miss out on finals the other nine years than play ten years in a row in the finals without winning the flag….if that makes sense.

I am sure there is philosophical label to my theory above if someone can help me out.

I read somewhere once that the whole drafting set up in the AFL is "designed" so teams are supposed to win a flag every 18 years - of course it doesn't happen that way, but I'm with you. I've had Hawks mates say they don't even know or care which flag was the best one. I could give a shit about footy in 2017 and I'm sure some of the players felt the same. It's been 6 years now and I'm just starting to get a little frustrated, paying more attention to the games.
We've made another GF, which is unheard of for us, and another flag by 2026 would be amazing.

 

[BEaston]

Mm I disagree, against decent oppositions he’s tired and been worked over in the back end of games - as anyone would be.

In your scenario you’re thinking 80% TOG, all in the ruck and 20% bench? Wouldn’t you prefer say roughly 60-65% time in the ruck and 25-35% time forward and minimal time on the bench and still kept fresh? Gives us a different look down forward where he’s very very dangerous, can drop back - the benefit to getting a good second ruck is that we can free him up there’s zero chance we’d waste that opportunity tbh

Gawns the best ruck in the league by a mile, he plays roughly 60% ruck it’s pretty standard

Also - “to get the best output for the team you'd leave them in their best positions as long as possible.”

You’d think so but lemme introduce you to one Mr Beveridge

I don't think Gawn plays only 60% ruck, but even if he did it's not really the same situation as Luke Jackson is a lot more competent in the ruck than Lobb. The difference between their setup and a potential English/Lobb setup is not the same.

 

[_Mike_]

-Stefan Martin has pretty much retired at this point, isn't expected to play another senior game this year unless both Sweet/English can't play, is staying on in a ruck-coaching job

Cant say anyone's actually surprised, if anything more surprised at seeing him play on again this year

-Rohan Smith is expected to step down as our senior assistant / defensive coach role this year, replacement unknown, internal pressure building, higher ups not happy with how this season has gone.

Speaking of assistant coaches, with your inside knowledge, what do they see in Spangher as a forwards coach because Im baffled at how poorly the structure across the forward line has been this year. What was the reasoning/logic behind getting someone who played on the backline to be the forwards coach?