Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Libbaaaa]

Fox Footy article

There’s not many bigger names on the market this year than Western Bulldogs star ruckman Tim English.

And Herald Sun reporter Jon Ralph expects the 26-year old will ultimately remain at Whiten Oval beyond 2024 on a deal as long as seven years at $7 million.

English, who’s eligible for free agency and a West Australian native – with West Coast seen as a prime suitor to lure him back home – is among several big-name Bulldogs out of contract at season’s end including Jamarra Ugle-Hagan and Bailey Smith.
Speaking on Fox Footy’s Midweek Tackle, Ralph believes all signs point to English re-signing with the Dogs on a big-money deal.

“Tim’s happy there, Tim’s loyal. His partner has come back from playing netball in WA. He’s got a house here and he wants to win premierships,” Ralph said.
“It’s going to be significant deal, but I think by Round 10, things will have gone in the right direction and he’ll re-sign with this football club.

“The seventh placing in last year’s best and fairest raised some eyebrows. (He would’ve wondered): ‘Do they rate me or not?’

“But I think the list management team headed by Sam Power have made it really clear that they want him.
“I think that deal would need be something like six or seven years at about $1 million ... he’s going to get a million somewhere, so he might as well get it at the Western Bulldogs. There’s going to be 60 players on $1 million by next year, that’s just what the market forces tell you.

“He’s already on say $800,000.”
Ralph took issue with criticism towards English, who’s coming off a career-best 2023 season where he claimed All-Australian honours for the first time in his career.

“I know a lot of people have potted him, but he kicked 16 goals last year and is the best ruckman competition. He’s a follow up ruckman who also wins possessions,” Ralph added.

“He has impact, he’s not just a behind the play, skirting around trying to get lose kicks type ruckman.”

So is it just the Bulldogs and WA clubs, namely West Coast, in the mix for his services?

Despite the potential pull to return to home state, Herald Sun reporter Sam Lansberger said to keep an eye on a potential rival Victorian club making a big play for the star ruckman.

“If I had one prediction, it would be that Jamarra Ugle-Hagan would re-sign first, and I wouldn’t discount Tim English leaving.

“But not for West Coast, I think there’s potentially a Victorian suitor that could put their hand up and really appeal to him.”

The $1m per year isn't as big a deal as the length of the contract. 27 in August, I don't want a 7 year commitment attached to him, if that means a poison pill style Ben McKay inflated deal so be it, just don't have him on the books going into his mid 30s.

If I were Hawthorn I'd be throwing the kitchen sink at him though and they probably are. Same with Essendon, Draper is just no good.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

“I think that deal would need be something like six or seven years at about $1 million ... he’s going to get a million somewhere, so he might as well get it at the Western Bulldogs. There’s going to be 60 players on $1 million by next year, that’s just what the market forces tell you.

This is the key point - a million dollar contract isn't the same thing as it was e.g. when Buddy got his or when we gave it to Tom Boyd. The salary cap will be $17.6 million next year.

 

[Foxman98]

This is the key point - a million dollar contract isn't the same thing as it was e.g. when Buddy got his or when we gave it to Tom Boyd. The salary cap will be $17.6 million next year.

The money isn't the issue it's the length,

Happily give him a million for 4 years

 

[BulldogMuscle]

3-4 years at 1m sits better with me than 5+.. Although 1m a year still doesn't sit right with me.

 

[Golden_6]

Thanks Tim but enjoy the Eagles

I don't know why everyone thinks the Eagles. He's expressed no desire to return there and his partner now lives in Melbourne and isn't from WA. There are a bunch of other clubs that I'd think he would look at first.

 

[Foxman98]

I don't know why everyone thinks the Eagles. He's expressed no desire to return there and his partner now lives in Melbourne and isn't from WA. There are a bunch of other clubs that I'd think he would look at first.

He is clearly motivated by money they have the most to offer

 

[TiAn_]

7 years would take him through to his age 33 season (turning 34 at the end of the season). Top echelon rucks like Gawn, Goldstein, Sandilands and Cox (and others the next level down like Stef Martin and Paddy Ryder) all remained somewhere close to their peak until around that age.

But there are a lot more rucks that the wheels seemingly start to fall off for their bodies and/or they start to lose their grip on the first ruck role at around 30-31.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

7 years would take him through to his age 33 season (turning 34 at the end of the season). Top echelon rucks like Gawn, Goldstein, Sandilands and Cox (and others the next level down like Stef Martin and Paddy Ryder) all remained somewhere close to their peak until around that age.

But there are a lot more rucks that the wheels seemingly start to fall off for their bodies and/or they start to lose their grip on the first ruck role at around 30-31.

Yep, this is the key point, especially as the salary cap will keep on rising even if his salary remains flat. If we're giving him well over a million next year I see no issue with well over a million in 2030 or whenever when the AFL Salary Cap will be well over $20 million and he theoretically could still be a top 3 ruck in the league

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Well, he was dumb enough to get sick of waiting behind Goldstein so he moved to Melbourne to sit behind Gawn.

I didn't think we're dealing with a rocket surgeon here...

Preuss has also stuffed up his rehab or reinjured himself more than once in his career because he wants to be a bodybuilder as much as he wants to be a footballer

 

[Dog 36]

He is clearly motivated by money they have the most to offer

Huge call

I think Timmy is the type that will look for reasons to stay than go. As long as the money discrepancy between offers is not huge then money will not be a factor.

 

[bobs head soup]

He is clearly motivated by money they have the most to offer

Why is he clearly motivated by money?

It is only reasonable to negotiate a good deal when you're coming into your prime years.

 

[Mojorisin]

Why is he clearly motivated by money?

It is only reasonable to negotiate a good deal when you're coming into your prime years.

Football is also a short career, only made shorter with injuries. I hold no grudges against anyone trying to get the best deal possible for themselves and their family provided they aren't throwing the club under the bus in the process, it seems from my perspective atleast that English is the ultimate professional and will have the club well positioned.
It just sucks how the AFL work out free agency compensation.

 

[Doggy]

Football is also a short career, only made shorter with injuries. I hold no grudges against anyone trying to get the best deal possible for themselves and their family provided they aren't throwing the club under the bus in the process, it seems from my perspective atleast that English is the ultimate professional and will have the club well positioned.
It just sucks how the AFL work out free agency compensation.

Good thing he's probably staying then

 

[Charlie Bucket]

I don’t think 5+ at 900k-1mil per year is much of an issue.

If his form stays, it’s a bargain by year 3-4. If his form drops off, at the very least he’ll become one of if not the best ruck/fwd in the comp behind Darcy playing our No1 ruck role.

No brainer for me.

 

[Libbaaaa]

Non Doggies related but Cal Twomey said the Hawks offered Todd Marshall

4

Todd Marshall

Age

26

Ht

198cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.0

2star

K

6.4

3star

HB

2.5

2star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.5

4star

G

1.1

4star

D

8.9

2star

K

7.1

3star

HB

1.8

1star

M

3.8

4star

T

3.0

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

9.6

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.4

4star

G

1.6

5star

$900k p.a. over 6 years and he said no. Yikes.

 

[Mojorisin]

I don’t think 5+ at 900k-1mil per year is much of an issue.

If his form stays, it’s a bargain by year 3-4. If his form drops off, at the very least he’ll become one of if not the best ruck/fwd in the comp behind Darcy playing our No1 ruck role.

No brainer for me.

I wouldn't be comfortable with anything over 5 years personally.

 

[Golden_6]

If Lobb was on a 2 or 3 year contract, I'd feel much better about any large contract for Tim. I feel like we're going to be paying him $500k+ to play VFL in 2025 & 2026 and then potentially have $4 million tied up purely on the ruck & KPF positions (Naughton - $1 mil, Tim - $1 mil, JUH - $1 mil, Lobb - $500k, Darcy - ?). Unless of course it was heavily front loaded.

I'm really uncomfortable with a 7 year contract for Tim. 5 years is the most I'd offer but I doubt we have a choice.

 

[bobs head soup]

There is currently a push for Melbourne to get cap relief after Brayshaw retired due to concussion issues.

Could have a big bearing on the risk factors relating to a longer term English contract.

 

[Libbaaaa]

Re: Lobb, the only consistent reporting I can find is that he arrived to the Dogs on a 3 year deal. I always interpreted a players old contract being ripped up when he moved clubs, so does this 3 year deal include last year, meaning two left, or does it just kick in this year?

 

[Golden_6]

Re: Lobb, the only consistent reporting I can find is that he arrived to the Dogs on a 3 year deal. I always interpreted a players old contract being ripped up when he moved clubs, so does this 3 year deal include last year, meaning two left, or does it just kick in this year?

You might be right. Everywhere seems to have been a reported 3 year deal so maybe he's only signed until the end of 2025.

 

[dergert]

Non Doggies related but Cal Twomey said the Hawks offered Todd Marshall $900k p.a. over 6 years and he said no. Yikes.

Jamarra's offers will be HUGE.

 

[Libbaaaa]

Jamarra's offers will be HUGE.

Rival clubs have to offer him 10 years+ to both secure him and not let him hit free agency. He will in all likelihood sign a deal with us that takes him through to free agency but on massive coin.

 

[Bulldogs85]

 

[maddog37]

7 years with a concussion history. Big call.

 

[Doggy]

They're all going to be disappointed when he stays