Trade/Delistings/List Management 2010 Thread

[pazza]

Re: Who on the list has done enough in 2010

Season assessment - 10 = Star/1 = Forget

Neagle - 3
Dyson - 5
Gumbleton - 6
Watson - 6
Stanton - 5
Monfries - 3
Winderlich - 2
Prismall - 2
McVeigh - 2
Zaharakis - 5
Welsh - 2
Lonergan - 2
Dempsey - 4
Pears - 6
Melksham - 4
Hurley - 4
Hille - 4
H. Slattery - 5
Myers - 2
Hooker - 4
Davey - 2
Ryder - 4
Fletcher - 6
Colyer - 4
Williams - 3
Reimers - 5
Hocking - 5
Howlett - 3
Lovett-Murray - 3
Houli - 2

 

[Dkid]

Re: List Cloggers

under sheedy at the end of his career we were being critiscised for being to slow. what the recruiters must not have realised was that they were talking about the midfield, with guys who were fast and could kick, not people who cannot dispose of the ball but can run lightning fast.

 

[ghostdog]

Re: List Cloggers

Before the season the term we used was depth. Now that we have some obvious problems (of which not many seem to acknowledge the link between form and confidence) we are using the term list clogger.

The personnel in the side is not too much different than last year. Okay we have lost Lloyd and Lucas, but they were in one part of the ground and most would agree we've been looking terrible most everywhere else as well. So this idea that we're crap simply because we've lost Lloyd and Lucas is rubbish.

We've lost the run of Lovett and haven't found anyone to fill that role. I thought Zaharakis could with his accuracy by foot and reasonable pace. Knights seems determined to play him in the forward line though. Whether you love him or loathe him, we're missing the composure of Skipworth.

I'm not willing to simply concede that our depth are suddenly clogging the list. We develop players. The ages of the players HFF has listed is probably worth looking into as well for this discussion. I just couldn't be bothered.

 

[Sigmund]

Re: List Cloggers

Wow.....I have not seen a post like this from you before hff....You are usually a lot more moderate than this.. but I think it is a good post that I can not really argue with. I do argue with the Gus Monfries inclusion though. He has basically played at CHF for 2 seasons and is one of the few blokes we have in our forward line who can consistently take an overhead mark (esp on the lead).... Given the quality of our list, I think he is clearly a lock for the best 22

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

Re: List Cloggers

Disagree with NLM and Monfries. Monfries is a useful forward and Nat Rat is a quality utility. He has more balls than most of the players on our list.

 

[Sigmund]

Re: Who on the list has done enough in 2010

Season assessment - 10 = Star/1 = Forget

Neagle - 3
Dyson - 5
Gumbleton - 6
Watson - 6
Stanton - 5
Monfries - 3
Winderlich - 2
Prismall - 2
McVeigh - 2
Zaharakis - 5
Welsh - 2
Lonergan - 2
Dempsey - 4
Pears - 6
Melksham - 4
Hurley - 4
Hille - 4
H. Slattery - 5
Myers - 2
Hooker - 4
Davey - 2
Ryder - 4
Fletcher - 6
Colyer - 4
Williams - 3
Reimers - 5
Hocking - 5
Howlett - 3
Lovett-Murray - 3
Houli - 2

That makes horrible reading...Although probably a little harsh on Watson.. probably give him and Pears a 7...Neagle lucky to get a 3 (being picky)

 

[SirJimi05]

Re: Who on the list has done enough in 2010

roflcoptor @ Hocking in the not good enough list. He has been one of our best and most consistant players so far.

 

[Super Gusto]

Re: Who on the list has done enough in 2010

Season assessment - 10 = Star/1 = Forget


Gumbleton - 6

Is this based on you expectations on where he would be at this stage or on his actual form?

Six seems way to high for someone who has a heap of improvement hopefully still to come.

 

[pazza]

Re: Who on the list has done enough in 2010

Is this based on you expectations on where he would be at this stage or on his actual form?

Six seems way to high for someone who has a heap of improvement hopefully still to come.

Form.

Workrate has increased week after week...and we look our best when he's on the end of it.

 

[Yoda_]

Re: List Cloggers

take out todays performance, he is like our LeCras/Ebert.
pocket target with a good lead. i dont see who else plays forward pocket in his absence

Monfries is not good enough to be even considered in the same company as Mark Lecras. Lecras 58 goals in 2009 in a bottom four side, how many did Monfries kick in a top 8 side that had a pretty disfunctional forward line? Answer, 25.

Playing Monfries like a Brett Ebert type role could work, he is strong overhead, we all agree on this. However, Zaharakis is just as good over head and is a lot better on the ground. While the recruitment of Mark Williams as another hit up player inside 50 takes away another position he could play.

I'm not willing to simply concede that our depth are suddenly clogging the list. We develop players. The ages of the players HFF has listed is probably worth looking into as well for this discussion. I just couldn't be bothered.

Jarrod Atkinson, 21/2/1985, 25 years old, 10 games.

Stuart Crameri, 10/8/1988, 21 years old, 0 games

Ricky Dyson, 28/8/2985, 24 years old, 92 games

Heath Hocking, 27/12/1987, 22 years old, 28 games

Sam Lonergan, 26/3/1987, 23 years old, 39 games

Darcy Daniher, 21/9/1989, 20 years old, 6 games

Leroy Jetta, 6/7/1988, 21 years old, 28 games

Nathan Lovett-Murray, 18/11/1982, 27 years old, 102 games

Angus Monfries, 19/1/1987, 23 years old, 96 games

David Myers, 30/6/1989, 20 years old, 15 games

Taite Silverlock, 25/1/1991, 19 years old, 0 games

Your point on the ages of the people I have listed. I have given a reason on every player I have listed. If you would like more reasoning then I am more than happy to give them to you..

Wow.....I have not seen a post like this from you before hff....You are usually a lot more moderate than this.. but I think it is a good post that I can not really argue with. I do argue with the Gus Monfries inclusion though. He has basically played at CHF for 2 seasons and is one of the few blokes we have in our forward line who can consistently take an overhead mark (esp on the lead).... Given the quality of our list, I think he is clearly a lock for the best 22

Monfries is not a class player like a Lecras, or a Chapman, if he is a lock at the EFC then we (EFC) are struggling big time. If impacted more games then he could also be considered a lock, but he doesnt.

Disagree with NLM and Monfries. Monfries is a useful forward and Nat Rat is a quality utility. He has more balls than most of the players on our list.

NatRat is a useful utility yes, but while we are going to be rebuilding, he is just going to be holding a spot from a Hardingham or a Tyson Slattery..

 

[rines]

Re: List Cloggers

Monfries seems the odd one out on your list for me.. but can see your points. What would gus need to do this year for you to consider it a pass mark? I think his attack on the ball is excellent and his skills in the top 10% at the club..

Other than that.. top post and shows the big concerns not just for this season but moving forward too.

I know you get to most Bendigo games..
how do you see Prismall fitting in, will he play AFL again under Knights or at the EFC?
What do you think of Davey.. he would be one of the oldest players not on your list..
How is T-Bell coming on in your opinion?
Bock also in this same bracket.

I just get the feeling we are to tall and top heavy.. T Slattery jumps out to me as a kid who needs to get a run in the seniors.. anyone you got your eye on for a call up?

We seem to be convinced about playing gumby into form in the AFL yet Neagle languishes, same with Darcy.. could these blokes benefit from an extended run in the top league before writing them off..?

 

[Burzum]

Re: List Cloggers

Atkinson
Bellchambers
Daniher
Davey
Houli
Jetta (have faith but has to show something soon)
Laycock
Lonergan
NLM (has gone backwards after a terrific second half last year)
Welsh

 

[Seb78]

Re: List Cloggers

Welsh will be gone soon (I hope)

Mcveigh is our best small defender

whilst NLM is no where near an AFL style utility.

This

I dont mind NLMs aggression though, probably something we have been lacking at times depth player at best perhaps.

McVeigh >>>>> Slattery in their respective positions, McVeigh is past his midfield days much better back flanker/stopper.

Welsh about 20 yards to slow, just cant keep it up for 4 qtrs any more

Dyson is a battler, ok player, that is it, looks good when the side is playing well and we're winning otherwise just an average player.

Monfries >>>>> Williams you need a small forward I suppose.

Myers IMO is a midfielder, Knights seems to think he is a back pocket/ flanker, play him in position and give him more that 3 games in a row think he'll be ok. Played on the ball in 2007 season under Sheedy avg about 26 touches and went forward and snagged goals on occasions.

Slattery = Useless as mentioned above McVeigh could play in his position and do it better, I think Howlett, Houli and or Hardingham could also be groomed as stopper type players in our defensive half.

 

[anf06]

Re: List Cloggers

What does Monfries actually bring to the table come match day? this is all I would like to know right now.

He is our best deliverer inside 50. Hard at it. Puts his head over the ball and wins plenty of free kicks from his willingness to put his body on the line every week. Is our best leading target, by a huge margin. Is good above his head and below. Plays far more outside 50 than inside 50 so those calling for 40 goals a year is ridiculous.

Would be one of the first picked every week. Is pivotal to our side and have no regret saying that he would get a game at any club in the league right now, including the top 3.

He is outstanding at what he does and an essential member of our team.

If he was to get 1 goal a game, take 6-7 marks and deliver the ball inside 50 5 times a match he will finish top 5 in our best and fairest. Gun. Easily best 22 at Essendon or any team. His disposal efficiency was something like 75% last year. You will struggle to find many Essendon players with efficiency better than that.

Edit: I also forgot to mention that last year, whilst he only scored 25 goals, he had 29 goal assists; Ranking him number 1 at Essendon for scoreboard impact.

Can you ask anymore from a forward.?

 

[timbo3195]

Re: List Cloggers

Myers IMO is a midfielder, Knights seems to think he is a back pocket/ flanker, play him in position and give him more that 3 games in a row think he'll be ok. Played on the ball in 2007 season under Sheedy avg about 26 touches and went forward and snagged goals on occasions.

You obviously know exactly what you're talking about..

 

[Jono B]

Re: List Cloggers

Silverloch, Monfries, Hocking? Myers is slightly questionable too.

Silverloch is 19 year old rookie, he should be given a chance.

Monfries is an AFL standard mid-sized forward.

Hocking is our best utility. He is not just tough, he is actually a pretty good allround package bar pace and decision making. You are miles off the mark with this one.

 

[Here_we_come]

Re: List Cloggers

Disagree with Monfries and NLM. I think that both are good players, and both could be very good in better teams.

While some view Davey as a clogger, I'm still confident he'll recapture his pre-injury form.

 

[ningnangnong]

Re: List Cloggers

You have raised an interesting question about Monfries.

I feel that he should be considering 40 goals a year - playing in his role.

I think its unrealistic to expect Monfries to kick 40 goals.

He'll be lucky to get 20 with the quality of ball he is currently getting.

 

[yaco55]

Re: List Cloggers

I think its unrealistic to expect Monfries to kick 40 goals.

He'll be lucky to get 20 with the quality of ball he is currently getting.

Cant always blame the delievery.

Sometimes you need to make your own luck.

 

[Yoda_]

Re: List Cloggers

Monfries seems the odd one out on your list for me.. but can see your points. What would gus need to do this year for you to consider it a pass mark? I think his attack on the ball is excellent and his skills in the top 10% at the club..

Other than that.. top post and shows the big concerns not just for this season but moving forward too.

I know you get to most Bendigo games..
how do you see Prismall fitting in, will he play AFL again under Knights or at the EFC?
What do you think of Davey.. he would be one of the oldest players not on your list..
How is T-Bell coming on in your opinion?
Bock also in this same bracket.

I just get the feeling we are to tall and top heavy.. T Slattery jumps out to me as a kid who needs to get a run in the seniors.. anyone you got your eye on for a call up?

We seem to be convinced about playing gumby into form in the AFL yet Neagle languishes, same with Darcy.. could these blokes benefit from an extended run in the top league before writing them off..?

I would like to see Monfries kick a lot more goals from ground balls. Lock the ball in more. He is too far away from goal, in our perfect world we would have 3 talls (Gumbleton, Neagle/Hurley, Hille/Ryder + Mark Williams in our forward 6. With Monfries there that is 4 tall marking options. 50m/60m/70m's can only get you so far with that amount of talls.. Last year, I remember sitting watching a game and seeing Monfries constantly get in the way of Neagle's leads, I thought to myself "**** off Gus", Neagle is the target".

With Riemers/Zaharakis they are another couple of players, playing as talls. They need to keep the ball inside 50 more often and better. Gus needs to do this role more, he only lays 2.33 tackles (http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tr-essendon-bombers) a game, and are they all inside 50?

Prismall is an interesting one, came to the club with big expectations, a lot of pressure on a kid who has just come across from one of the greatest teams of all time, to a team struggling to find there feet. We need to find where he does his best work, play him forward perhaps? Averages nearly 5 tackles a game, decent enough skills, good goal sense? At the moment, his confidence must be low, struggling at Bendigo where 'apparently' he should dominate.

Davey has showed something in the past few weeks at Bendigo, must be chomping at the bit to get back in the seniors. His omission from the side he has taken on the chin, gone back to Bendigo where he has worked on his deficiencies and improved them and got them back to somewhere acceptable. With Zaharakis as that small forward, and the possibility of Jetta coming in (unbeknown why), a quartet of Zaharakis, Jetta, Davey and Riemers playing forward of the ball is a tantalising prospect. Allthough I do not see this happening in the near future. Davey is starting to play better footy up the ground, his skills are equisite and he runs and carry's the ball to dangerous spots, 'the linebreaker' that we have been missing since round 1 I feel. He should come into the side this week and do a good job I imagine.

T-Bell is coming along nicely, obviously I am going to apply the 'talls take time to develop' line here, but T-Bell has shown some very promising signs in the limited games I have seen of him. I remember seeing him play at Frankston where they got smashed, T-Bell put his hand up and played a blinder, took some good contested grabs, used the ball well and rucked pretty well. Obviously he is 4th in line behind Hille, Ryder and Laycock, but he is going to be putting pressure on these 3 very soon I imagine, it would not even surprise me to see rival clubs putting deals on the table for his services come years end. Big call I know, but I feel we have found a good kid in Bellchambers.

On Bock, I do not think he will make it, obviously very young and very raw, but he just does not have the intensity or the aggression to make it at the top line. He seems to be tall and that is what has got him to where he is. At the Bullants game (round 1) he constantly dropped balls he should have won, was lazy and unfit. Kicking was not even up to VFL standard. Will wait and see on this 19 year old beanpole though.

T.Slattery should have played on the weekend. He is a lockdown type player who I have been calling for weeks to be included. He closes down his man whilst also zoning off to provide some rebound. Howlett should also be a chance to come back into the team after being stiff to be dropped in the first place. Marigliani should also be a player looked at very closely, if people want some help for Watson in the guts, get this guy in right now. Big body, not afraid to put his head over the ball and I feel, will not e overawed by the moment if he got the chance to play AFL footy. Good skills who is also able to go forward. He has not been named in the best all year, I feel because the people who watch VFL footy, see him do the same thing, week in, week out without ripping games apart. When he does, you'll know about it.

Neagle has to play, as one poster alluded too in a thread, Neagle is a traditional stay at home forward. He is not one to run all day, He leads, goes back and kicks goals. What is different between Mark Williams and Neagle? Both leading players who grab marks, go back and kick goals. Both seem to struggle putting on tackles. I would like to see Neagle use his bodu more, seems to want to hurt people more without the ball in the area than when it is at the moment. An extended run in the seniors woul be good. Remember he is still only what 22? 23? at the end of next year will be a telling time for him.

any ways I am off to work now, will come back on and discuss this later with anyone..

 

[Donakebab]

Re: List Cloggers

Myers IMO is a midfielder, Knights seems to think he is a back pocket/ flanker, play him in position and give him more that 3 games in a row think he'll be ok. Played on the ball in 2007 season under Sheedy avg about 26 touches and went forward and snagged goals on occasions.

Yeah never mind the fact that he was taken in the 2007 draft and played his first AFL game in 2008. In that season he averaged 14.5 possessions a game and kicked 1 goal. I agree that the guy is a midfielder, but don't just make up random bullshit.

Oh and Houli isn't a defenders arseh*le. If he's to play in the seniors it's as a wing or HFF.



To the OP, bit rough on a few players. Just some simple points as I don't have much time.
-Hocking has performed well in almost every game this year. He may be slow but his decision making has improved, he doesn't instantly back himself to go for a run anymore and he's been one of the few players giving a damn week in week out.
-You list Darcy but then say you'll give him time, why even list him then.
-Long term yes Dyson would be a depth player at best, but currently he's still in our 22.
-Silverlock has just come to the club, at least let him see out the year in the twos before you brand him as a clogger. He's a kid, so you can't exactly use the excuse that he's taking up a spot where we could be blooding youth.
-I'm a fairly big Gus critic, but you just need to look at his score involvements last year to know that he is currently a vital cog in our forwardline.
- Myers knows what he is and that is a midfielder. A clearance player with a decent kick is something we are desperate for, if he gets a run in the position that suits him then he may just stand a chance to prove his haters wrong. No guarantees obviously but we'd be better off finding out for sure then just tossing him on the scrap heap.

I'm surprised that you've included rookies yet you haven't mentioned John Williams. Nothing against the bloke, but if you're defining rookies as cloggers then he is the ultimate example.

 

[Clamps]

Re: List Cloggers

I think you are being a touch harsh on Monfries mate, he is a decent player. No star player, but under appreciated at Essendon, for what he does.

I also don't agree with NLM, not the most skillful players but atleast he gives his heart and soul to the club. Tries his guts out every week.

I agree with on Myers though, he is absolutely awful. No skills what so ever and terrible decision maker. I don't care if he is young, still an awful player.

There is one player who forgot though and that is Alwyn Davey, personally I think he is the worst player on our list. Maybe not skill wise, but just has no heart and the softest player in the AFL. Is a one trick pony.

 

[Slattery_20]

Re: List Cloggers

#8
#10
#12
#14

Have done nothing this year.
Nada.
Zip.
Zero.

If McVeigh "can" do Hank's job, he would be doing it - end of story.
Winderlich's the one hwo really, really annoys me: has all the class but does not look interested.

 

[Slattery_20]

Re: List Cloggers

He's had 20 touches every week he's played this year, and was in our best 2 or 3 in our only win.

 

[Slattery_20]

Re: List Cloggers

he had 26 possessions yesterday 25 resulting in turnovers. He is useless no heart no pace, not an afl footballer

He's laid blocks and shepherds and tackles.
Many have not.