Phar Ace
Brownlow Medallist
You just keep me optimistic with your critiques................ I guess there is no place for a player like this:
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List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 5
- Thread starter richoatthedisco
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You just keep me optimistic with your critiques................ I guess there is no place for a player like this:
Hawthorn and Geelong lists don’t dictate what ceiling or outcome Richmond will achieve either way. Premiership lists are rarely built off of mediocre picks, in fact I can’t think of an exception. We have a list that still has enough in the tank to try again. It took 37 years to get one so they don’t come around easily.
If your going to list Geelong though I’d say they’ve been very successful at staying up and competing at the pointy end.
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Tiger_Of_Old
THE_GUN:"Why don't you use your reg acc"7/9/24
Can we give'em pick 17.Thats pretty popular.
Tiger_Of_Old
THE_GUN:"Why don't you use your reg acc"7/9/24
Not too sure about the scats 'competing' at the pointy end...it's more like showing up and making up the numbers...
I think having those set games at Kitty Litter Park canna be under estimated...to their health..
Though having competed in Finals like we have the cats did not look as tired and injured as our mob...but just do not have enough juice to win!
I'm not a big Mitchell fan, so I rate him lower than others, but its about what the Hawks would accept, and they wouldn't take a future second.
To get it done I think it needs a first, and I reckon they'd want it to be 5-15 range.
And I don't want to go near that deal for a first.
They made a GF and several prelims. Their dynasty finished in 09 but they bobbed up for a flag in 2011. If you can make top 4 your every chance of winning a flag. It only takes a few injuries or a little luck on game day.
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They only paid 41 for AA fullback Brian Lake?
Mitchell is worth about pick 26. If they cover a chunk of salary then he’s worth 15 + Caddy. I’m sure Hawthorn would be aware of what he’s worth and not delude themselves into thinking it’s a high 1st.
I’d add that if they are trying to off load these guys it will be with the intention of kicking off their rebuild with some reasonable capital but also in tanking the draft and getting in the kind of talent that their flag teams were built around.
I’m not sure I believe Sam Mitchell is actively shopping these guys but now would be a good time to bottom out while there is no pressure on him.
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The problem is 2 fold. Firstly, we were one of the worst teams in the back half of the year. We weren't even close to the top echelon on a consistent basis. Secondly Melbourne, Bulldogs and to a lesser extent Port are either on the way up or at least peaking. We are past our peak. Trent is shot, Prestia can't get on the park, Nank is getting injured more often than not, Lambert is nowhere near as durable as before and Edwards played with injections to his ankle every week he played. Sure a miracle can occur and somehow they all get healthy again but if we are relying on miracles to win a flag then we are in real trouble. As sexy as it seems to top up and have another go, we need to look at getting the next Cotchin, Lambert, Jack and Edwards. Tarrant cost us nothing. If Mitchell cost us nothing of course I'd say yes. But I wouldn't be giving a first rounder for him (or even an early second rounder). We need to start building the next gen and we have a great draft hand to do so. The earlier you start, the earlier you give yourself a chance to shoot right back up into contention. Just my 2 cents worth...
- Mar 1, 2010
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More interested in winning premierships than accumulating stats
Agreed. Learn from past mistakes of others (Hawks and Cats) who refused to accept that the hungrier, younger teams had passed them.
Unfortunately we have been passed, it's just the way the game works. Let's smash the draft and get the next core of stars that can support Baker, Balta, Bolton, Stack, Vlastuin, Graham, RCD and hopefully the Rioli's, Short, RCD, Dow, Ross, etc.
Try and pinch a King or a Naughton or Thilthorpe or something in 5 years as a FA or trade.
If we are lucky we can have another period at the top in 3-5 years.
- Mar 1, 2010
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Agree and its not just the pick its the salary.
I would be having a stab at Lipinski if interested, only 22 given Pies are trying to use a pick in the fifties
pick 28 for 23, 38 to 45 and we use 40 on Lipinski or something more in our favour.
I just think the pros outwin the cons in terms of moneyball, he is young enough, same vintage as Bolton and Balta and he has opportunity with us. Its not like we are not looking for guys with height that can play inside and on the flanks so he will have a real chance if he wants to take it
I’m sort of in the middle. It would depend on who we bought in for me.
But taking our picks to the draft won’t change the next 10 years for us. We will bottom out at some point. We’ve hit the draft the last 5 years for some very disappointing results, if we’d nailed a few more drafts then things might have gone differently. As it is some more middling 1st round picks over the next 4 years aren’t going to change our fortunes.
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- #264
IMHO we are only a chance if samson Ryan explodes or we put balta forward. Very very bare on big men even before ccj and chol left.
Ancient Tiger ? Pffttt...more like Ancient Wisdom
How many players have the pies cut? They’ve amassed a pile 3rd round picks to pay for a Daicos bid, I’m not sure how they get them all to the draft table.
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- Banned
- #268
They are trying to tank.
So they might fold.
I doubt they want him cause he helps win games.
I think the new coach is going to try bottom out
My biggest issue around getting Mitchell isn’t his output nor his cost (assuming we agree it’s pick 15 or 26 or both with something back), but it’s his contract.
Not just his current contract, but he’s next one. Even in the best scenario whereby Hawks pay some of his salary for the remaining years of his contract, it’s still hard to justify.
Let’s say he has two years left at $700k a year and Hawthorn says it’ll pay half of it. That’s two years at $350k which is around a third more than the player who would be selected at 15 would cost IF he played every game.
But at the end of the current Contract, Mitchell will likely want another Contract. If he doesn’t, we’ll we’ve given up a potential 10 year player for a two year player.
If he does, what are the chances that he’ll want more than $350k a year that we were paying him (with the other half paid by Hawthorn)? Chances would say that’s high, severely putting a strain on those coming out of contract (such as Bolton et al.). So we either pay him more than what we ideally would want to pay him, or he walks out for a new Contract.
Ultimately all that is salvageable if you think you can win the premiership in 2022 or 2023, and Mitchell is the key to doing it. I personally, don’t see it. I think he’d be handy and make us better, but not sure he is the key to raising the cup in the next two years.
Therefore, there is little sense IMO for trading for him.
Not just his current contract, but he’s next one. Even in the best scenario whereby Hawks pay some of his salary for the remaining years of his contract, it’s still hard to justify.
Let’s say he has two years left at $700k a year and Hawthorn says it’ll pay half of it. That’s two years at $350k which is around a third more than the player who would be selected at 15 would cost IF he played every game.
But at the end of the current Contract, Mitchell will likely want another Contract. If he doesn’t, we’ll we’ve given up a potential 10 year player for a two year player.
If he does, what are the chances that he’ll want more than $350k a year that we were paying him (with the other half paid by Hawthorn)? Chances would say that’s high, severely putting a strain on those coming out of contract (such as Bolton et al.). So we either pay him more than what we ideally would want to pay him, or he walks out for a new Contract.
Ultimately all that is salvageable if you think you can win the premiership in 2022 or 2023, and Mitchell is the key to doing it. I personally, don’t see it. I think he’d be handy and make us better, but not sure he is the key to raising the cup in the next two years.
Therefore, there is little sense IMO for trading for him.
_RT_
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- Sep 17, 2006
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- #271
No kidding they don't dictate the outcome of our list build, but they can provide lessons in what does and doesn't work and IMO what Hawthorn did trying to land that one last flag was the wrong way to go about it. I'm not saying we don't go for a flag either, what I'm saying take our shot, but don't do so to the detriment of our future.
As for Geelong, sure they've been great at staying up for the last decade, but what have the got to show for it? No premierships and one hell of a drop off the cliff coming up quickly.
My guess would be that both will be delisted ..
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- #274
Ideally it'd be a treloar like deal
lol wut
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