Transgender - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Please be aware that the tolerance of anti-trans language on BF is at an all-time low. Jokes and insults that are trans-related, as well as anti-trans and bigoted rhetoric will be met with infractions, threadbans etc as required. It's a sensitive (and important) topic, so behave like well-mannered adults when discussing it, PARTICULARLY when disagreeing. This equally applies across the whole site.

 

[Engimal v3]

Because males on ave have more hemoglobin, more muscle mass and less fat % than women. Muscle & fat mass and hemoglobin levels are all controlled by hormones and not puberty. For example hemoglobin levels reduce to F norms in just 3 months and fat mass increases by 20 to 30% in just the first 12 months.

This results in what we call reduced fat-free mass. Fat provides resistance for movement, as opposed to a muscle, which provides torque for movement. Consequently, the more fat-free mass someone has, the better athlete they are likely to be — independent of skill level.

This part confuses me. If two people are 170lbs and one is a man and the other a woman, wouldn't the one with more muscle and less fat have some advantage in punching power? I appreciate you sharing this info, but it's really hard for me to believe it in the face of thousands of hours of contract evidence that I've seen.

In every combat sport in the world, women achieve a lesser rate of knockdowns and knockouts. What do you think could explain this? MMA has been surprisingly progressive in the sense that it's had women at a high level in the sport for quite a while, and yet the problem remains.

 

[the_interloper]

This part confuses me. If two people are 170lbs and one is a man and the other a woman, wouldn't the one with more muscle and less fat have some advantage in punching power? I appreciate you sharing this info, but it's really hard for me to believe it in the face of thousands of hours of contract evidence that I've seen.

In every combat sport in the world, women achieve a lesser rate of knockdowns and knockouts. What do you think could explain this? MMA has been surprisingly progressive in the sense that it's had women at a high level in the sport for quite a while, and yet the problem remains.

Lower weights overall have a lower KO ratio too, don’t know the stats but I’m sure that’s right. Would be interesting to compare the KO ratio of men to women in the same weight classes.

Looking for other reasons (well other than the obvious), maybe women naturally have better chins? Dunno.

Skye Nicolson is a good example, very dominant, unbeaten but one KO win out of 11.

 

[Gethelred]

Lower weights overall have a lower KO ratio too, don’t know the stats but I’m sure that’s right. Would be interesting to compare the KO ratio of men to women in the same weight classes.

Looking for other reasons (well other than the obvious), maybe women naturally have better chins? Dunno.

Skye Nicolson is a good example, very dominant, unbeaten but one KO win out of 11.

I seem to remember that KO's used to be significantly more common in men's boxing than they are currently, that the rules themselves have been refined to make the sport safer.

Are the stats around KO's historical? Can we seen KO's by year across both male and female and by weight?

 

[the_interloper]

I seem to remember that KO's used to be significantly more common in men's boxing than they are currently, that the rules themselves have been refined to make the sport safer.

Are the stats around KO's historical? Can we seen KO's by year across both male and female and by weight?

Boxrec has all of the stats, had a quick google and couldn't find a comparison like this, I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to do , I'll keep looking.

Let's just look at the top female boxers of now:

Clarissa Shields, self proclaimed GOAT woman boxer 14-0 (2 KOs)
Katie Taylor 23-1 with 6 KOs
Amanda Serrano 47-2 with 31 KOs, she's got a way higher ratio than the others

For the top males

Naoya Inoue 27-0 with 24 KOs
Terence Crawford 40-0 with 31 KOs
Canelo Alvarez 61-2-2 with 39 KOs

 

[burge13]

Boxrec has all of the stats, had a quick google and couldn't find a comparison like this, I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to do , I'll keep looking.

Let's just look at the top female boxers of now:

Clarissa Shields, self proclaimed GOAT woman boxer 14-0 (2 KOs)
Katie Taylor 23-1 with 6 KOs
Amanda Serrano 47-2 with 31 KOs, she's got a way higher ratio than the others

For the top males

Naoya Inoue 27-0 with 24 KOs
Terence Crawford 40-0 with 31 KOs
Canelo Alvarez 61-2-2 with 39 KOs

Known for only really being able to stop poor competition. The opponent yesterday shouldn't have been sanctioned to fight her for example

But the comparison isn't apples to apples regardless - womens boxing is 2 minute rounds

 

[burge13]

Could this lunacy be defended i wonder? Lets see

 

[Gralin]

Could this lunacy be defended i wonder? Lets see

Men Can Have Endometriosis: Symptoms, Causes, Treatment

People often categorize endometriosis as a “women's health” issue, leading many to think it's a disease of the female reproductive organs — but it's not. Here's what the research says and when to contact a doctor.

www.healthline.com

there's also the fact that non binary people and trans men can sufferer from it burge13 where is the lunacy, other than listening to anything Rachel Wong says on the topic

 

[SnakeMan86]

Men Can Have Endometriosis: Symptoms, Causes, Treatment

People often categorize endometriosis as a “women's health” issue, leading many to think it's a disease of the female reproductive organs — but it's not. Here's what the research says and when to contact a doctor.

www.healthline.com

there's also the fact that non binary people and trans men can sufferer from it burge13 where is the lunacy, other than listening to anything Rachel Wong says on the topic

View attachment 2055608

is burge13 article in relation to men who have transitioned? or Simply men identifying as a woman?

From what i can see, there are only 16-18 cases of men reported as suffering from Endometriosis, with most coming from increased exposure to Oestrogen Therapy, the rest coming from morbid obesity.

So to say a "non binary person" can suffer from Endo would be a stretch, but someone who is in the process of transitioning, or has transitioned, could theoretically suffer from it going by the studies.

 

[Chief]

I'm still yet to see a shred of evidence that a female can punch as hard as a male.

I am sure there are some females that can punch as hard as some males, so I don't know what you're trying to say.

 

[Gralin]

is burge13 article in relation to men who have transitioned? or Simply men identifying as a woman?

Burges article is from a transphobe and it's in the HUN because culture wars
They are complaining about inclusivity in a survey

From what i can see, there are only 16-18 cases of men reported as suffering from Endometriosis, with most coming from increased exposure to Oestrogen Therapy, the rest coming from morbid obesity.

But they exist right?
So excluding them from research because a transphobe wants only women to be treated would be shit wouldn't it?

So to say a "non binary person" can suffer from Endo would be a stretch, but someone who is in the process of transitioning, or has transitioned, could theoretically suffer from it going by the studies.

Why would it be a stretch?
Non binary people can suffer from endo

Maybe a better question would be what do you think non binary means?

 

[SnakeMan86]

I am sure there are some females that can punch as hard as some males, so I don't know what you're trying to say.

The discussion came from a Female boxer not wanting to fight a trans boxer.

This was then quoted with "Women can punch as hard as a man" and a Study.

"I am sure" is not measurable. If your going to quote the story, or make it relevant, by claiming a woman can punch as hard as a man.. then that should be backed up with a record of a woman of that weight class recording a punch as hard as a male boxer in that weight class..

 

[Gethelred]

The discussion came from a Female boxer not wanting to fight a trans boxer.

This was then quoted with "Women can punch as hard as a man" and a Study.

"I am sure" is not measurable. If your going to quote the story, or make it relevant, by claiming a woman can punch as hard as a man.. then that should be backed up with a record of a woman of that weight class recording a punch as hard as a male boxer in that weight class..

... which is all a pretense at a scientific argument justifying exclusion.

It's handy that you seemed to miss the point I made earlier: that you're not an expert nor are you a scientist in the area; that your pretext for making your arguments are observational, not scientifically supported; that you don't really have a leg to stand on beyond the vibes.

Posturing is all very well and good until you propose that others treat that posturing as gospel truth.

 

[the_interloper]

I am sure there are some females that can punch as hard as some males, so I don't know what you're trying to say.

This one is still going then eh?

 

[Chief]

This one is still going then eh?

My internet punches are powerful, but the transphobes won't just stay down when beaten.

 

[burge13]

This one is still going then eh?

It's weird that watching all sports, women bowl slower than men, kick the footy shorter distances, run slower times, jump lower heights. Literally every single sport the womens metrics are lower

But women can punch as hard as men. Okie dokie

I'm not knocking womens sport, it's great little girls can watch TV and imagine themselves playing professionally where they wouldn't have done 20 years ago. But if people aren't going to be close to realistic they should be called out for it.

 

[SnakeMan86]

It's weird that watching all sports, women bowl slower than men, kick the footy shorter distances, run slower times, jump lower heights. Literally every single sport the womens metrics are lower

But women can punch as hard as men. Okie dokie

I'm not knocking womens sport, it's great little girls can watch TV and imagine themselves playing professionally where they wouldn't have done 20 years ago. But if people aren't going to be close to realistic they should be called out for it.

Nope, your a transphobe
Cop your "Internet beat down"

 

[Chief]

But women can punch as hard as men.

You keep talking about this as if it is cis women versus cis men.

We see you slipping that little bit of ignorance into every post.

We all see it.

 

[SnakeMan86]

... which is all a pretense at a scientific argument justifying exclusion.

It's handy that you seemed to miss the point I made earlier: that you're not an expert nor are you a scientist in the area; that your pretext for making your arguments are observational, not scientifically supported; that you don't really have a leg to stand on beyond the vibes.

Posturing is all very well and good until you propose that others treat that posturing as gospel truth.

All well and good to high horse. Except there are at least examples of transwomen outperforming cis women...

There are zero examples of a women P4P outpunching a man.

 

[SnakeMan86]

You keep talking about this as if it is cis women versus cis men.

We see you slipping that little bit of ignorance into every post.

We all see it.

Except that wasn't the context of the original claim. You keep bringing it around to that.

 

[Chief]

Except that wasn't the context of the original claim. You keep bringing it around to that.

OK let us know what you believe the original claim to be.

 

[Gralin]

Except that wasn't the context of the original claim. You keep bringing it around to that.

You going to explain your comments about non binary people suffering from endo being a stretch from yesterday or no?

 

[ShanDog]

... which is all a pretense at a scientific argument justifying exclusion.

It's handy that you seemed to miss the point I made earlier: that you're not an expert nor are you a scientist in the area; that your pretext for making your arguments are observational, not scientifically supported; that you don't really have a leg to stand on beyond the vibes.

Posturing is all very well and good until you propose that others treat that posturing as gospel truth.

Was this safe deference to cold hard science also your view when discussing the issue of gender medicine for kids?

 

[Chief]

Was this safe deference to cold hard science also your view when discussing the issue of gender medicine for kids?

Has the Cass Report ever been referred to as cold hard science?

 

[ShanDog]

Has the Cass Report ever been referred to as cold hard science?

That's a review of the science. I don't understand the question.

 

[Chief]

That's a review of the science. I don't understand the question.

Your view is that one option which has NO supporting evidence is better than actual treatment which has some support in scientific studies.

So I can't take your "cold hard science" reference seriously.