List Mgmt. Varcoe stays a Cat

[4quarter_cat]

really Strauchnyy?

I can imagine the club woth think carefully about it.

In reality its only Varcoe for pick 20 + any old other pick. cause we'll want to upgrade all of blitz, Walker, and Burbs. then Our 2 ND picks become 15 + 20 which is decent for Wellsy to take a dip.

Guess it depends on how the club see his future. I'd personally be happy enough. Don't consider myself a hater, just feel theres a good chance TV's best could be behind him.

 

[strauchnyy]

really Strauchnyy?

I can imagine the club woth think carefully about it.

In reality its only Varcoe for pick 20 + any old other pick. cause we'll want to upgrade all of blitz, Walker, and Burbs. then Our 2 ND picks become 15 + 20 which is decent for Wellsy to take a dip.

Guess it depends on how the club see his future. I'd personally be happy enough. Don't consider myself a hater, just feel theres a good chance TV's best could be behind him.

Referreing back to a prior post, people forget that Varcoe has only been poor AFTER his shoulder injury this year. Before that he was absolutly flying and in our top 10 or 12 players. Even prior to that in 2011 (2012 was a write off and doesnt mean anything) Varcoe would probably have been one of our most important players with his creativity, run and carry.

In 2011 and in rounds 1 and 2 this year, Varcoe was at his potential, playing amazing football and then got injured, lost confidence and played roughly 8 or so poor games (only!!) this year after returning.

Should we also trade Hawkins who had a poor second half to the year? Defintely not. Neither would I want to let go of Varcoe who, IMO, can flick the switch and return to great form. He just needs to get his confidence back, and I believe he can with a good preseason.

Varcoe is way more valuable then say, pick 25/26 or 27 is in reality what we would get from the above mentioned trade after free agency adjustments. I believe Varcoe just needs to regain confidence - which he can get after a uninterupted preseason - and he will be back up and running.

Varcoe in form is clearly a top 10 or 12 player for us and circa worth a top 15 pick whilst under contract.

I see varcoe's value at his 2011 (and 2010) form. NOT his last 8 or so games since returning from a serious shoulder injury and cleary playing without confidence.

For these reasons I would be gutted if we let him go for peanuts.

 

[goyoucatters]

Referreing back to a prior post, people forget that Varcoe has only been poor AFTER his shoulder injury this year. Before that he was absolutly flying and in our top 10 or 12 players. Even prior to that in 2011 (2012 was a write off and doesnt mean anything) Varcoe would probably have been one of our most important players with his creativity, run and carry.

In 2011 and in rounds 1 and 2 this year, Varcoe was at his potential, playing amazing football and then got injured, lost confidence and played roughly 8 or so poor games (only!!) this year after returning.

Should we also trade Hawkins who had a poor second half to the year? Defintely not. Neither would I want to let go of Varcoe who, IMO, can flick the switch and return to great form. He just needs to get his confidence back, and I believe he can with a good preseason.

Varcoe is way more valuable then say, pick 25/26 or 27 is in reality what we would get from the above mentioned trade after free agency adjustments. I believe Varcoe just needs to regain confidence - which he can get after a uninterupted preseason - and he will be back up and running.

Varcoe in form is clearly a top 10 or 12 player for us and circa worth a top 15 pick whilst under contract.

I see varcoe's value at his 2011 (and 2010) form. NOT his last 8 or so games since returning from a serious shoulder injury and cleary playing without confidence.

For these reasons I would be gutted if we let him go for peanuts.

Whatever the merits of Trav, to justify his retention by comparing his output to that of a man playing with a clearly debilitating back issue is demonstrably spurious.

 

[strauchnyy]

Whatever the merits of Trav, to justify his retention by comparing his output to that of a man playing with a clearly debilitating back issue is demonstrably spurious.

I am comparing the notion that both players had poor second halves of the year and that having a poor 8 - 10 weeks does not justify trading a player who is clearly better than the latest output. I'm not comparing who had more output or for what reason as you suggest.

One had a physical injury, whereas the other obviously had a lack of confidence, and both can be fixed.

I am using the Hawkins example to illustrate how stupid it is to trade players based on their last few games.

 

[CF]

Trav wont be going anywhere so chill out.

I think we've seen the best from Trav that we'll ever see. He has a role as that mercurial performer who can kick the odd inspirational goal or do the odd inspirational tackle, and get his 15-20 disposals for the game. But he'll never be an elite midfielder, that much is certain now.

Trav's problem now is that as other players come up and begin playing good AFL footy he just might find himself on the fringe and eventually getting dropped. Motlop & Bundy have passed him. Stokes is holding his own. As players like Murdoch, Stringer, & Smedts improve Trav's spot is going to come under threat if he can't recapture his 2011 form.

Trav will be 26 next year and for most AFL players they don't really improve much after that age, in fact they plateau for a few years and then drop off. I think we've seen Travs best now but I hope he proves me wrong because he is a nice bloke.

 

[Gee Class Loco]

Grain of salt, but one poster on our board posted Varcoe and #32 to Port Adelaide for #23 and #30

Make it more interesting... Make it No.13 and 23... For Varcoe and our 32...
That would give us 13-15-23(after comps..14-16-25)... Makes you look more than once??
That would only give us 3 picks in the Top 25.
Miller-Tsitas-Giles ??
Gardiner-Drumont-Tsitas ??
Drumont-Tsitas-Giles ??
Mmmmm.... Doughnuts....arghhhhh.... Wells just fell off his couch....lol

 

[strauchnyy]

Trav wont be going anywhere so chill out.

I think we've seen the best from Trav that we'll ever see. He has a role as that mercurial performer who can kick the odd inspirational goal or do the odd inspirational tackle, and get his 15-20 disposals for the game. But he'll never be an elite midfielder, that much is certain now.

Trav's problem now is that as other players come up and begin playing good AFL footy he just might find himself on the fringe and eventually getting dropped. Motlop & Bundy have passed him. Stokes is holding his own. As players like Murdoch, Stringer, & Smedts improve Trav's spot is going to come under threat if he can't recapture his 2011 form.

Trav will be 26 next year and for most AFL players they don't really improve much after that age, in fact they plateau for a few years and then drop off. I think we've seen Travs best now but I hope he proves me wrong because he is a nice bloke.

A 15 - 20 disposal mecurial player is all Trav was going to be. He was never going to be that consistent 25-30 midfielder.

But we dont need him to be that.

Every team needs players that turn games through a pressure act/mercurial goal or tackle and that's what Trav is. These players are harder to find. I take that over an average 25 possie performance off a mid any day of the week.

The amount of rubbish on this board these last few months about Travis is simply unjustifiable.

IMO Stringer will never surpass Travis, and Murdoch still has a long way to go.

 

[goyoucatters]

I am comparing the notion that both players had poor second halves of the year and that having a poor 8 - 10 weeks does not justify trading a player who is clearly better than the latest output. I'm not comparing who had more output or for what reason as you suggest.

One had a physical injury, whereas the other obviously had a lack of confidence, and both can be fixed.

I am using the Hawkins example to illustrate how stupid it is to trade players based on their last few games.

Fair enough.

I hope that it is as simple as a lack of confidence and that Trav can 'flick the switch', as you put it.

Otherwise the notion that he is clearly better than his latest output will not be sustainable for much longer.

 

[CF]

The amount of rubbish on this board these last few months about Travis is simply unjustifiable.

No it hasn't. Trav played like crap from when he came back from his shoulder injury to the prelim final. No matter how his one-eyed fans want to sugar coat it. The criticism has been justified. Does that mean he wont find some better form next season? No. He can still be a useful player for us but his 2013 season was sub standard.

As for your thoughts of the other players that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. Time will tell I guess but it's too soon to call on those guys.

 

[The rabbi]

I am using the Hawkins example to illustrate how stupid it is to trade players based on their last few games.

And you do have a point.
Some on this forum are quick to point out Taylor Hunt's struggles post injury, and suggest trading him. But some people have a short memory and cannot seem to recall that early in the year he was a very effective tagger and was hurting the opposition that other way by scoring goals too.

 

[Jon Douglas]

As I have written elsewhere - THunt and TV and West will all be at Catland next season. No deals done and no deals on the table I am aware of.

So we all better settle down and accept the fact that these 3 will be playing in Geelong colours next season.

So why not get behind them - and hope they have a good pre-season and play well for us next season.

Nothing else we can do now.

Then wait and see what transpires and if TV plays like crap then I am sure we will soon know about it. If West does not get a game and is burning it up in the VFL then some will let us know. If THunt plays badly - again we will all here about it soon enough.

I just hope no one is gifted a game like TV was late in the season when all could see he was not playing well enough to keep his spot. That goes for all the team really - but you cannot just go on one game - all players need 3 or so games to be given enough time to show their wares. But then - it should become VFL time - and a younger player doing well in the VFL gets promoted on merit.

So we start again - and I just hope that posters can hold back for the first 2-3 games and make a call then. All players starting with a clean slate - no carry over poster's points.

What we want as Cat fans is all our players doing well - even if they are not our favourite player or they have been poor the season before. Who cares as long as we are winning and the player concerned is doing their bit ?

I think it could be a longer season next year for posters as I cannot see us winning 18 games - so there probably will be a few more posters having a say why and which players are not performing. That's fine. As long as they are given a few games to get into the swing.

 

[Johnny Cattery]

Agree JD that it will be a colder year next year, and with the sentiment that we should support all the players. Like you I want all to have a good preseason and start the year well with a shot at playing ones determined by form, not reputation or injury. But not so sure we are over the trading (wish we were) because we do not have enough room on our list yet. If we are preparing for 2015 - more likely 2016/17 - than we would be better off with three picks than two in the ND, given Wells' capacity to find talent late, as we would probably be better off with three rookie upgrades than two. On the rookies, we seem to have done much better in this respect this year than in previous ones. Big tick for the VFl program.

 

[CF]

He wasn't as bad as what some have said though. He was well below his own standards but ultimately, we do not have another player at the Geelong football club who can play that attacking sweeper roll as well as Trav and that's even when he's down on confidence and barely holding his spot in the team.

He still provided many attacking thrusts throughout the final series, many scoring involvements too but also gave us a bit of creativity from the back line going forward. His disposal was pretty poor but he wasn't as bad as what he's been made out to be.

In all honesty I don't really give a crap anymore. What's done is done. Good luck to Trav in 2014. But his 2013 form means nothing to me now. I suggest you all get over it as the season is over. What's done is done. Give it a rest.

 

[vinum coupe]

Decision making was pretty poor. Still quality if he puts it all together in the coming year or two.

Great vid Bob.
It kills me

 

[Lana]

After seeing that clip of Varcoe it's easy to see why they played him despite his poor form. He gets to the right places, he movies really well, it looks like he glides across the ground. He just needs get get back his confidence with his disposal, a full pre-season of ball handling should help him get back the fundamentals. I am calling it now next season he will have Stokes styled renaissance.

 

[David the Cat]

Strange....how the major protagonists all disappear at the same time. Not to be seen of late on any other threads either....

Guess we should be thankful for small mercies.

 

[David the Cat]

I am sure that

After seeing that clip of Varcoe it's easy to see why they played him despite his poor form. He gets to the right places, he movies really well, it looks like he glides across the ground. He just needs get get back his confidence with his disposal, a full pre-season of ball handling should help him get back the fundamentals. I am calling it now next season he will have Stokes styled renaissance.

I am sure there's not one Geelong supporter who hopes you are wrong........certainly the ability is there....

Fingers crossed.

 

[Beanstalk]

Decision making was pretty poor. Still quality if he puts it all together in the coming year or two.

Jesus Christ. Hate to think about it, but if Murdoch had have played instead of Varcoe that day...

 

[Berserker26]

Have to admit watching that video that it's both encouraging and frustrating. The guy gets in the right spots, gets out in the open and just runs and runs. Looked good off half back against Freo tho butchered it a bit. Frustrating in that he looks to give off too much. I'd wager pound for pound he's in the top handful of skilled players at the club - I remember even Bomber saying years ago the bloke just lights it up at training - I believe he needs to get a bit of arrogance and mongrel about him ah la motlop/stevie J and it'd do wonders for his game. Transfer this brilliance in training to the match. Maybe he needs the magoo's for some time and just get some confidence in his ability. Goal him on kicks, tackles and meters gained by foot.

Personally I'd like to keep him at the club, perhaps some tough love wouldn't go astray, potentially what the trade table talk was all about - sending a message - step up or you have to go.

C'mon Travy, get up for a big year.

 

[Vdubs]

Have to admit watching that video that it's both encouraging and frustrating. The guy gets in the right spots, gets out in the open and just runs and runs. Looked good off half back against Freo tho butchered it a bit. Frustrating in that he looks to give off too much. I'd wager pound for pound he's in the top handful of skilled players at the club - I remember even Bomber saying years ago the bloke just lights it up at training - I believe he needs to get a bit of arrogance and mongrel about him ah la motlop/stevie J and it'd do wonders for his game. Transfer this brilliance in training to the match. Maybe he needs the magoo's for some time and just get some confidence in his ability. Goal him on kicks, tackles and meters gained by foot.

Personally I'd like to keep him at the club, perhaps some tough love wouldn't go astray, potentially what the trade table talk was all about - sending a message - step up or you have to go.

C'mon Travy, get up for a big year.

Great points and great avatar.

 

[Vdubs]

I saw TV play in an ALL-STARS game a few years ago now, and he was close to BOG. Dominated, looked like he loved his footy and his team mates, and everything was lightning fast and skillful.He was yet to establish himself at Geelong, but from that game of dominance, speed, goals, I was sold. He looked like a Daniel Wells.
Injuries have been a curse, lack of confidence, maybe the oft-repeated personal issues; but I too hope 2014 is his special year, that the post season circus will be the trigger.

 

[jim boy]

Three years ago people were quite willing to move Mackie on, many thought he had peaked and that we should get a trade for him whilst he still had value. He was struggling and was dropped from the team late in the season. Three years on and he is an AA.

Travis is still younger now than Mackie was then. Yeah, he had a bad season, looked really good early and then did his shoulder. Didn't really regain his full fitness and in the white heat of finals footy his lack of full fitness left him exposed.

He is probably still two years off his peak, unless the club think his body wont stand up to the rigours of footy, we'd be crazy to let him go. When Trav is ON, Geelong is ON.

 

[Partridge]

Three years ago people were quite willing to move Mackie on, many thought he had peaked and that we should get a trade for him whilst he still had value. He was struggling and was dropped from the team late in the season. Three years on and he is an AA.

Travis is still younger now than Mackie was then. Yeah, he had a bad season, looked really good early and then did his shoulder. Didn't really regain his full fitness and in the white heat of finals footy his lack of full fitness left him exposed.

He is probably still two years off his peak, unless the club think his body wont stand up to the rigours of footy, we'd be crazy to let him go. When Trav is ON, Geelong is ON.

Difference was though Mackie actually got dropped from the team. For finals too. When has that happened to Varcoe recently?

 

[goyoucatters]

Difference was though Mackie actually got dropped from the team. For finals too. When has that happened to Varcoe recently?

Some would suggest that Trav hasn't been dropped because it would shatter his confidence.

Still others suggest that continuing to play him in the seniors when he's clearly not thriving is shattering his confidence.

Joseph Heller would have had a field day with those two conflicting ideas.

It appears that he's the quintessential definition of a riddle wrapped in a mystery encapsulated in an enigma.

Nobody is sure what will bring the best out of him.

And that appears to go double for Travis himself.

 

[Partridge]

difference was we had replacements for Mackie in Milburn and Wojcinski who gave us attacking creativity from defense.

What players in the VFL can provide the run and carry like Varcoe can? Murdoch? Stringer?
Thurlow came back from injury and would not have been ready so couldn't have been him.

There are one armed short people in the Brazilian rainforest who could have offered more than Varcoe did in the Prelim. Probably would have kicked straighter too.