Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

[PiCkLeJuiCe]

It's actually not a bad idea if for example Freo were in a premiership window to play a game at the MCG against a weak Marvel club eg North. Invaluable experience on the G and you shouldn't lose.

Even better, play a non Vic side there so eliminate any home State advantage. The other team still has to travel.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Yet you’re still here even though your team benefits, so it’s either to gloat or sling shit at people.

Collingwood will likely win the flag and it’ll probably be against GWS, so there’s going to be another asterisk next to another MCG tenant flag.

But hey, VFL

 

[Carringbush2010]

Yet you’re still here even though your team benefits, so it’s either to gloat or sling shit at people.

Collingwood will likely win the flag and it’ll probably be against GWS, so there’s going to be another asterisk next to another MCG tenant flag.

But hey, VFL

Yet you're still here sooking about it when you KNOW.

Seems you don't want to accept, oh well wallow in misery then.

 

[Carringbush2010]

It's a good point. The fairest thing would be Pies to get 17 games at the G to give all teams an opportunity to experience a finals like environment

 

[Outtatym]

Even better, play a non Vic side there so eliminate any home State advantage. The other team still has to travel.

Whatever works. I picked marvel tennant's as in most cases they play the same or less games at the G than some interstate sides, so it's essentially neutral minus travel. There's potential for sides to adapt to what is an unfair advantage... but won't change for decades you would think.
If North are ever competitive again I would hope we would move some games across as they won't play finals at Marvel.

 

[SC_Power]

What are the non viable parts? Are you talking the smaller vic clubs? If not please elaborate and if not.

The smallest vic club has 50k members (north), to be conservative they'd probably have at least double that on top of that are paying non members. So, the afl would consider them viable.

'So it’s still money ultimately.' Umm yeah, always has been and always will be.< This is why there is vic bias, it's leaned toward the most important factor.

The fans, they're the revenue raisers, and that's why HQ won't risk 150k paying North fans. Coz there's more vic fans, that's why the bias leads that way.

Not 'favouritism' it's money.

^ This has been explained eleventy billion times already.

Just like they have an AFL Fixture, not an AFL Draw.
Maybe we need to remove the word “competition” from the AFL.

If it’s deliberately biased towards one group of teams (which we all agree it IS biased, it is a decision to run the competition like this, it’s the reasons WHY that we disagree), then how do we consider it a true competition? Certainly isn’t a fair one.

 

[sr36]

The fairest thing to do would be to rotate the Grand Final venue and force teams like Collingwood to travel as much as the non-Victorian clubs. That's not going to happen though, so we're just trying to find small wins that can get us closer to a more equitable situation.

There's a slew of advantages and equalisation measures in the AFL. It's why the comp is so even. But funny how it's only the Vic ones that you guys want to change.

 

[doppleganger]

The "force teams like Collingwood to travel as much as the non-Victorian clubs" is just impractical/silly.

10 clubs in Vic (9 in Melb), and 8 outside.

It is ridiculous, it is geography.

Be like Phoenix Sun fans complaining that it is unfair that they play in a division with 4 Californian teams, and the NBA should be trying to have them play more games in Arizona to make it fair.

Or Manchester fans complaining that it is unfair that there are 7 teams from London who are advantaged by having more games in London than they get in Manchester.

All teams should get the same number of games at the one single preferred ground. And then you also play the same number of games away at your opponents home ground.

That is fair and equitable.

Where do you think the majority of Vic club's 'away' games are going to be?
To 'fix' that would require massively screw the fixture (and cost the clubs/AFL a hell of a lot of money).

A supposed "fix" is to have North play "home" games against WC and Freo in WA.

IF travel is such a big factor, the real actual fix is for teams to not fly back across the country after a single away game, but instead do a road trip.

WC could actually only have 6 flights back and forth instead of 11 with some smart fixturing.

The latter part is also why the GF stays at the MCG...the AFL makes a LOT more money that way....and if you think that doesn't matter, how would you feel about them making significant cuts to their spending?

Bye bye GWS/GC.

Bye bye junior funding.

Yep, it is $$ driven.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Maybe we need to remove the word “competition” from the AFL.

I don't have that power, if you do, go ahead

If it’s deliberately biased towards one group of teams (which we all agree it IS biased, it is a decision to run the competition like this, it’s the reasons WHY that we disagree),

Yes, everybody already knows this.

then how do we consider it a true competition? Certainly isn’t a fair one.

Well, it is a competition, it's not a fair one, certainly a lot more balanced before expansion and I don't think there is a fair one anywhere anyway.

If you don't wanna consider it a true competition, then you go ahead.

Personally, I'd rather we don't have an expanded vfl, but that's not a choice I have, nor do you.

 

[GC2015]

The "force teams like Collingwood to travel as much as the non-Victorian clubs" is just impractical/silly.

10 clubs in Vic (9 in Melb), and 8 outside.

Where do you think the majority of Vic club's 'away' games are going to be?

Let's use Collingwood for this example. In terms of away games, the Pies can face 8 teams based in Melbourne or 8 teams outside of Victoria (9 if you include Gather Round). It's not a majority, it's literally 50/50 and when you take into account that 5 of the 8 teams in Melbourne don't call the MCG their permanent home ground, you should be looking at a maximum of 3 Collingwood away games that can be held at the G against other permanent MCG tenants Richmond, Hawthorn and Melbourne.

So, how many "away" games do the Pies actually play at the G each year? The number is 5 this year against Hawthorn, Richmond, Melbourne, (fair enough so far) Carlton and the Bulldogs. How many times do the Pies travel interstate this year? 6 times against the Giants, Swans (GR), Lions, Dockers, Suns and Crows. If you took 2 of those MCG games away from Collingwood and got them to travel to play against the Swans, Power and/or Eagles (+ Tassie in the near future) then you're finally getting close to the travel required of a non-Vic team like the Crows or Power that travel interstate 10 times a year.

Less MCG away games and more interstate away games for teams like Collingwood is what should be happening. That's how we make this league more fair given we know the Grand Final isn't going to move away from the G and the introduction of Tasmania into the league in a few years will help in that regard, as well as the non-Vic team that eventually enters with the 20th licence. IMO every Victorian team should be forced to travel interstate for at least 1/3 of the season, which would equate to 8 interstate away games as opposed to the current 6 interstate away games that teams like Collingwood are able to benefit greatly from. I'd probably try to push that number to 9 interstate away games once Tassie and Team 20 are in the league so there's literally just a game or 2 difference in terms of travel between most Vic and non-Vic teams and it would then be viewed as a minimal advantage for teams like Collingwood. 14 games in Victoria + 9 outside of Victoria sounds a lot better than the current 17 in Victoria + 6 outside of Victoria.

The latter part is also why the GF stays at the MCG...the AFL makes a LOT more money that way....and if you think that doesn't matter, how would you feel about them making significant cuts to their spending?

Of course money matters, but would the AFL benefit significantly less from having the Pies play West Coast in Perth with 55k+ in attendance as opposed to the money they made from Collingwood playing Melbourne at the G in front of 53k last year? I'm not saying you should move the big ones like Collingwood v Carlton or Collingwood v Essendon away from the MCG. It's the lower drawing away MCG games against teams like Melbourne that could be foregone to improve the travel inequalities we see in the fixture.

 

[demondavey]

Yet you're still here sooking about it when you KNOW.

Seems you don't want to accept, oh well wallow in misery then.

Nice try at diversion

 

[demondavey]

Why are you here? It’s a thread about vic bias and you’re already admitted you have it and you benefit. At least have the decency to leave.

 

[kranky al]

It's a good point. The fairest thing would be Pies to get 17 games at the G to give all teams an opportunity to experience a finals like environment

Or to yeet Eddie McGuire into the sun at half time for entertainment

 

[Carringbush2010]

Nice try at diversion

It's not a diversion / deflection at all.

It's a straight-out statement, accept it or don't, if you don't wanna accept it which you obviously don't then wallow in your misery.

You do have a choice.

Sook or don't sook, if you keep sooking I'll keep handing you tissues. Your choice.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Why are you here? It’s a thread about vic bias and you’re already admitted you have it and you benefit. At least have the decency to leave.

Why are you here? It's a fact you know you can't change, so why are you still here sooking?

You don't get to dictate who posts and who doesn't. Have a sook about that too.

 

[kranky al]

There's a good argument Richmond would have made the GF in 2018, finished 2 games and percentage clear on top of the ladder but got no HGA in any of their finals.

Not if they had to play 10 away games like we do…

They would have scraped in bottom of the top 8, played an away final and been yeeted out of finals week one.

 

[kranky al]

Yes they beat Port who were 4th at the time in Adelaide in July. But you only focus on the game in Adelaide in April when they were going through a bad patch losing 4 in a row.

They beat the Swans away from the G in 2018. And what on earth has 2016 got to do with anything, that was before they came good, they finished 13th. And why are you ignoring 2019?

Because 2019 is two years after 2017 where 2016 and 17 are one year either side…

And for the fifty millionth time I also point out round 16 where they lost against bottom 10 team st Kilda and a couple of weeks before finals against geelong….

But y’all pretend that never happened

 

[sr36]

Because 2019 is two years after 2017 where 2016 and 17 are one year either side…

And for the fifty millionth time I also point out round 16 where they lost against bottom 10 team st Kilda and a couple of weeks before finals against geelong….

But y’all pretend that never happened

How often do teams win 15 in a row to win the Grand Final? they won 9 out of the last 10, including smacking 3 teams in the finals ... and then showed it wasn't an aberration by being the top team the following year and then winning the next two flags. But hey you keep your certainty that the Crows stodgy footy was going to match it with the tiges set up for modern pressure and scoring from turnover if it was at another venue.

 

[GC2015]

There's a slew of advantages and equalisation measures in the AFL. It's why the comp is so even. But funny how it's only the Vic ones that you guys want to change.

Ultimately, I think everyone wants a highly competitive league and the best way to ensure that is to get it as close to a level playing field as we can. Unfortunately, there's just certain areas that aren't easily equalised like the majority of teams being based in Victoria coupled with the vast majority of draftees coming out of Victoria every year, which flows into issues like greater retention problems for non-Vic teams. It's most evident in QLD and NSW and that's a big part of the reason that the northern academies exist. In our life time we're probably never going to get to a point where states like QLD or NSW produce the same number of high quality draftees as Victoria each year, so we have to look at other ways to make up for inequalities like that.

Will it go too far at times? Probably, but it's also on the AFL to decide when/if it has gone too far and to restrict those measures accordingly. We saw that in 2017 when GWS lost academy zone access to parts of the Riverina that were producing lots of high quality AFL players year after year, while also competing in a prelim final the year before. Now I think it's time for the AFL to look into ways to reduce the travel inequalities, which I detailed in a post above.

 

[kranky al]

How often do teams win 15 in a row to win the Grand Final? they won 9 out of the last 10, including smacking 3 teams in the finals ...

they won 9 games of their last 11

The two games they lost were away from the mcg…

and then showed it wasn't an aberration by being the top team the following year and then winning the next two flags. But hey you keep your certainty that the Crows stodgy footy was going to match it with the tiges set up for modern pressure and scoring from turnover if it was at another venue.

You continue pointing to games they won on their home ground as an indicator that they would have won a game played away

I keep pointing to games they lost away over a three year period as an indicator that they would have lost away in the middle of that three year period.

I can even point to early 2018 where they got thrashed by Adelaide in Adelaide playing stodgy footy….

 

[sr36]

Ultimately, I think everyone wants a highly competitive league and the best way to ensure that is to get it as close to a level playing field as we can. Unfortunately, there's just certain areas that aren't easily equalised like the majority of teams being based in Victoria coupled with the vast majority of draftees coming out of Victoria every year, which flows into issues like greater retention problems for non-Vic teams. It's most evident in QLD and NSW and that's a big part of the reason that the northern academies exist. In our life time we're probably never going to get to a point where states like QLD or NSW produce the same number of high quality draftees as Victoria each year, so we have to look at other ways to make up for inequalities like that.

Will it go too far at times? Probably, but it's also on the AFL to decide when/if it has gone too far and to restrict those measures accordingly. We saw that in 2017 when GWS lost academy zone access to parts of the Riverina that were producing lots of high quality AFL players year after year, while also competing in a prelim final the year before. Now I think it's time for the AFL to look into ways to reduce the travel inequalities, which I detailed in a post above.

What actually suggests that travel inequality is an issue? Home and away results don't. It's become a definite massive advantage to Vic teams; however, there aren't the results there to support the certainty.

 

[chris9753]

If I were in charge of the AFL commission I’d make 2 changes:
1. Rotate the Grand Final through the clubs…Victoria would still have roughly half the finals…seems a fair compromise and it would be good for the development of the game.
2. Melbourne teams share the ‘G and Marvel. The big games are played at the ‘G and the games that draw smaller crowds at Marvel. Maybe it would take a generation but it would eventually stop the big Vic clubs getting bigger and bigger.

 

[doppleganger]

If I were in charge of the AFL commission I’d make 2 changes:
1. Rotate the Grand Final through the clubs…Victoria would still have roughly half the finals…seems a fair compromise and it would be good for the development of the game.

Does Gold Coast get a GF? So only 27k people can go (would be what 5k supporting team members!)

2. Melbourne teams share the ‘G and Marvel. The big games are played at the ‘G and the games that draw smaller crowds at Marvel. Maybe it would take a generation but it would eventually stop the big Vic clubs getting bigger and bigger.

That is basically what happens now

It would mean the non-Melbourne teams would never play at the G, as crowds more suitable to Marvel.

And the big Melbourne teams would keep getting the MCG BLOCKBUSTERS and keep getting bigger and bigger.

 

[Grin]

Fans need to start boycotting afl games and hit them in the pocket. If they see blatant unfair umpiring just walk out of the stands, switch off the TV, tell the afl they'll be tuning out until it's rectified.

Unfortunately for many, including myself, footy has become an addiction, an opiate for the masses. Like a lot of modern day entertainment it's used to control us.

Thanks mate, but even after 8 years of having the worst run with umpires in AFL history, most Tigers supporters won't abandon their club.

 

[kranky al]

Thanks mate, but even after 8 years of having the worst run with umpires in AFL history, most Tigers supporters won't abandon their club.

Perhaps they should get memberships to the umpires assn so they can microwave them ?