Mega Thread VICBias - Genuine Discussion Part 2

[chris9753]

Does Gold Coast get a GF? So only 27k people can go (would be what 5k supporting team members!)
Yep, once every 18/20 years isn’t a big deal and it would be great for their growth. What will the size of their stadium be in 20 years? 40 years? 60years?

That is basically what happens now
Is it? Even last week the marvel game drew a bigger crowd than one of the mcg games….as I said it might take a generation to even out but what’s happening now is the mcg teams are generally getting bigger and becoming more successful.

It would mean the non-Melbourne teams would never play at the G, as crowds more suitable to Marvel.
Never’s too strong a word but it’s not too different to what’s happening now anyway. I’m glad you’re concerned about it. At least the smaller Melbourne teams would start off as equals (in terms of rules) which is the opposite to what’s happening now.

And the big Melbourne teams would keep getting the MCG BLOCKBUSTERS and keep getting bigger and bigger.
Which is what’s happening now…at least with the Grand Final being rotated this isn’t such an advantage and lessens the advantage (but not remove it) these teams have now.

 

[sr36]

Does Gold Coast get a GF? So only 27k people can go (would be what 5k supporting team members!)

Here's a question for everyone. Whilst not being an MCG tenant, which club has lost the most Grand Finals to MCG tenants?


I'm not sure, but I don't think that team complained. I think they just accepted that the MCG was the logical venue for the Grand Final, because it is and always has been - pandemics or major building works aside.

 

[GC2015]

Rotate the Grand Final through the clubs…Victoria would still have roughly half the finals…seems a fair compromise and it would be good for the development of the game.

You can't play a GF in front of 25k people in western Sydney or the Gold Coast. Just rotate the 50k+ venues - MCG, Optus, Adelaide Oval, SCG/ANZ Stadium & the new Brisbane Olympic stadium. The Giants and Suns still end up getting a home state GF like Geelong. The only issue would be Tasmania, but you could just let them choose a 50k+ venue that they would like to play it at and they would most likely pick the MCG.

 

[blue harvest]

You can't play a GF in front of 25k people in western Sydney or the Gold Coast. Just rotate the 50k+ venues - MCG, Optus, Adelaide Oval, SCG/ANZ Stadium & the new Brisbane Olympic stadium. The Giants and Suns still end up getting a home state GF like Geelong. The only issue would be Tasmania, but you could just let them choose a 50k+ venue that they would like to play it at and they would most likely pick the MCG.

So it's Perth's rotation and they get Giants v Suns? Or are you suggesting the GF venue is decided after the prelims are played?

 

[kranky al]

So it's Perth's rotation and they get Giants v Suns? Or are you suggesting the GF venue is decided after the prelims are played?

Pretty sure just like if it were giants v suns at mcg, Perth footy fans could fill in the gaps….

 

[blue harvest]

Pretty sure just like if it were giants v suns at mcg, Perth footy fans could fill in the gaps…

But the post was suggesting a home state GF. So Giants v Suns at the SCG, yay. Even though it was Perth's turn. How many free tickets would they give out?

 

[GC2015]

So it's Perth's rotation and they get Giants v Suns? Or are you suggesting the GF venue is decided after the prelims are played?

Potentially if that's how you choose to do it or you could base it on the highest ranked team that qualifies for the GF. I think last year proved that the fears about a Grand Final not selling out were unfounded when two teams that are perceived to have smaller/less passionate fanbases qualify for the big dance. I'm very confident that there would be at least 60k people in WA that would be happy to attend an AFL GF no matter who was playing and obviously there would be thousands from all over the country that would be willing to fly across to attend as well. The Grand Finals that were played at the Gabba and Optus Stadium sold out in those COVID years and neither of those GFs involved local teams. The only stadium I'd be a little concerned that may not sell out for a GF would be the Sydney Olympic stadium that holds 80k, but they could always just play it at the 50k SCG instead if that's the case.

Anyway, it's not going to happen so the logistics don't really matter. Better off putting effort into finding ways to combat the MCG advantage because we know important football matches are going to continue to be played there for a loooong time.

 

[JackOutback]

Potentially if that's how you choose to do it or you could base it on the highest ranked team that qualifies for the GF. I think last year proved that the fears about a Grand Final not selling out were unfounded when two teams that are perceived to have smaller/less passionate fanbases qualify for the big dance. I'm very confident that there would be at least 60k people in WA that would be happy to attend an AFL GF no matter who was playing and obviously there would be thousands from all over the country that would be willing to fly across to attend as well. The Grand Finals that were played at the Gabba and Optus Stadium sold out in those COVID years and neither of those GFs involved local teams. The only stadium I'd be a little concerned that may not sell out for a GF would be the Sydney Olympic stadium that holds 80k, but they could always just play it at the 50k SCG instead if that's the case.

Anyway, it's not going to happen so the logistics don't really matter. Better off putting effort into finding ways to combat the MCG advantage because we know important football matches are going to continue to be played there for a loooong time.

Victorians do tend to think they sports better than anyone else sports. But yes, a grand final in Perth or Adelaide or Brisbane would sell out regardless of who is playing. It’s already been proven.

 

[chris9753]

You can't play a GF in front of 25k people in western Sydney or the Gold Coast. Just rotate the 50k+ venues - MCG, Optus, Adelaide Oval, SCG/ANZ Stadium & the new Brisbane Olympic stadium. The Giants and Suns still end up getting a home state GF like Geelong. The only issue would be Tasmania, but you could just let them choose a 50k+ venue that they would like to play it at and they would most likely pick the MCG.

What will the stadiums and attendances be like in 20, 40, 60 years? You’re thinking about the situation now which is fair enough whereas i’m thinking more about fairness, growing the game and making it a true national competition.

 

[chris9753]

So it's Perth's rotation and they get Giants v Suns? Or are you suggesting the GF venue is decided after the prelims are played?

There’s a number of systems that can work but I don’t think we can call it a fair national competition while the gf is always at the g. This just seems to me a fair, relatively easy and obvious change to make.

 

[cartwright]

Victorians do tend to think they sports better than anyone else sports. But yes, a grand final in Perth or Adelaide or Brisbane would sell out regardless of who is playing. It’s already been proven.

Of course it would
Those stadiums only fit 50k / 60k people

Why do you want to deny supporters of participating clubs the chance to attend a GF, with less seats available?

 

[doppleganger]

Of course it would
Those stadiums only fit 50k / 60k people

Why do you want to deny supporters of participating clubs the chance to attend a GF, with less seats available?

They want to deny Victorian competing club members or make them have to travel.

Cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.

It will mean ALL club members suffer, as ALL less likely to be able to see their team play in a GF

 

[Grin]

Fact: There is no significant statistically significant advantage for Victorian clubs in Grand Finals at the MCG

Fact: There is a statistically significant advantage for Non Vic clubs in the H&A season. Even more so for non Melbourne based clubs. Even with the introduction of GWS and Gold Coast.

Fact: Non-Vic bias conspiracy theorists are just as impervious to facts as the most deluded MAGA.

Fact: Vic-Bias? Myth busted

Will non-Vic and Geelong supporters finally stop their infernal whinging and moaning and bitching and complaining and constant demands for ever more unsporting advantages?
Fact: Not on your life.

 

[The Feeder Club]

Here he is again, the Richmond bloke who thinks it's so clever to call anyone that disagrees with him an anti-vaxxer or MAGA supporter
Fact: you should have been moderated off this thread a long time ago, You're incapable of arguing in good faith

 

[Lunchtime]

Fact: There is no significant statistically significant advantage for Victorian clubs in Grand Finals at the MCG

Fact: There is a statistically significant advantage for Non Vic clubs in the H&A season. Even more so for non Melbourne based clubs. Even with the introduction of GWS and Gold Coast.

Fact: Non-Vic bias conspiracy theorists are just as impervious to facts as the most deluded MAGA.

Fact: Vic-Bias? Myth busted

Will non-Vic and Geelong supporters finally stop their infernal whinging and moaning and bitching and complaining and constant demands for ever more unsporting advantages?
Fact: Not on your life.

Grand Finals: Vic Teams vs Non Vic Teams at the MCG

Victorian Teams: 10
Non Victorian Teams: 9

Grand Finals: Vic Teams vs Non Vic Teams at all Grand Final Grounds

Victorian Teams: 11
Non Victorian Teams: 9

*1991 Grand Final was played at Waverley Park (Haw vs WC)

MCG Tennants vs Non Victorian Teams in Grand Finals at the MCG

MCG Tennats: 6
Non Victorian Teams: 4

 

[kranky al]

But the post was suggesting a home state GF. So Giants v Suns at the SCG, yay. Even though it was Perth's turn. How many free tickets would they give out?

Mate if there were struggling to sell tix I’d be on a plane.

 

[sr36]

Mate if there were struggling to sell tix I’d be on a plane.

They won't have any trouble selling out anywhere regardless of the teams. Particularly if the venue capacity drops from 100,000 to 50,000.

At the moment, the best value way to get a GF ticket is to become a GWS member and bet on them making it.

 

[JackOutback]

They want to deny Victorian competing club members or make them have to travel.

Cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.

It will mean ALL club members suffer, as ALL less likely to be able to see their team play in a GF

Having to travel to see your team play in a GF or miss out? What fresh hell is this?

 

[kranky al]

They won't have any trouble selling out anywhere regardless of the teams. Particularly if the venue capacity drops from 100,000 to 50,000.

At the moment, the best value way to get a GF ticket is to become a GWS member and bet on them making it.

If you think about the kayo tie in - not actually a bad idea

Better chance of a gf tix - check
Get kayo - check
Support expansion - check

 

[SC_Power]

Fact: There is no significant statistically significant advantage for Victorian clubs in Grand Finals at the MCG

Fact: There is a statistically significant advantage for Non Vic clubs in the H&A season. Even more so for non Melbourne based clubs. Even with the introduction of GWS and Gold Coast.

Fact: Non-Vic bias conspiracy theorists are just as impervious to facts as the most deluded MAGA.

Fact: Vic-Bias? Myth busted

Will non-Vic and Geelong supporters finally stop their infernal whinging and moaning and bitching and complaining and constant demands for ever more unsporting advantages?
Fact: Not on your life.

Did any of the above actually consider the performance and form of the teams leading into the GF?
Don’t just say that it’s meaningless because it’s a Grand Final. A “favoured”team winning is no story, a “lesser” team winning is a story.

 

[chris9753]

Here he is again, the Richmond bloke who thinks it's so clever to call anyone that disagrees with him an anti-vaxxer or MAGA supporter
Fact: you should have been moderated off this thread a long time ago, You're incapable of arguing in good faith

Agree…this thread is about Vic bias, there might be an argument that it’s justified but there’s no argument that it doesn’t exist.

 

[doppleganger]

Having to travel to see your team play in a GF or miss out? What fresh hell is this?

Yes.

Those SA Port fans will be happy, when instead of 20k getting tickets and being able to drive to Melbourne it is QLD "turn" to host, and only 10k Port fans will get a ticket and they have a much harder job getting to QLD.

But all worth it, as it means less Victorian members get to go

 

[GC2015]

Fact: There is no significant statistically significant advantage for Victorian clubs in Grand Finals at the MCG

2015
QF: West Coast def. Hawthorn by 32 points @ Subiaco
GF: Hawthorn def. West Coast by 46 points @ MCG

2017
R6: Adelaide def. Richmond by 76 points @ Adelaide Oval
GF: Richmond def. Adelaide by 48 points @ MCG

2019
R3: GWS def. Richmond by 49 points @ Sydney Showgrounds
GF: Richmond def. GWS by 89 points @ MCG

2022
R2: Sydney def. Geelong by 30 points @ SCG
GF: Geelong def. Sydney by 81 points @ MCG

2023
R4: Brisbane def. Collingwood by 33 points @ Gabba
GF: Collingwood def. Brisbane by 4 points @ MCG

Victorian teams have beaten non-Victorian teams in Grand Finals 6 times in the last 10 years and on 5 of those occasions we saw the non-Victorian team beat the Victorian team earlier in the season on their home ground (as listed above). West Coast was the only non-Victorian team to buck the trend in 2018 when they beat Collingwood to win the flag, but even that was by the tiniest of margin that could've easily gone the other way and they beat the Pies by a larger margin when they played them in Perth earlier that season. The other GFs in the last 10 years were contested by two Vic teams or two non-Vic teams and are irrelevant to this discussion. I think this pretty conclusive evidence to disprove your point about there being no significant evidence to suggest Victorian teams benefit more than the non-Victorian teams from Grand Finals being played at the MCG every year.

 

[peetoo]

2015
QF: West Coast def. Hawthorn by 32 points @ Subiaco
GF: Hawthorn def. West Coast by 46 points @ MCG

2017
R6: Adelaide def. Richmond by 76 points @ Adelaide Oval
GF: Richmond def. Adelaide by 48 points @ MCG

2019
R3: GWS def. Richmond by 49 points @ Sydney Showgrounds
GF: Richmond def. GWS by 89 points @ MCG

2022
R2: Sydney def. Geelong by 30 points @ SCG
GF: Geelong def. Sydney by 81 points @ MCG

2023
R4: Brisbane def. Collingwood by 33 points @ Gabba
GF: Collingwood def. Brisbane by 4 points @ MCG

Victorian teams have beaten non-Victorian teams in Grand Finals 6 times in the last 10 years and on 5 of those occasions we saw the non-Victorian team beat the Victorian team earlier in the season on their home ground (as listed above). West Coast was the only non-Victorian team to buck the trend in 2018 when they beat Collingwood to win the flag, but even that was by the tiniest of margin that could've easily gone the other way and they beat the Pies by a larger margin when they played them in Perth earlier that season. The other GFs in the last 10 years were contested by two Vic teams or two non-Vic teams and are irrelevant to this discussion. I think this pretty conclusive evidence to disprove your point about there being no significant evidence to suggest Victorian teams benefit more than the non-Victorian teams from Grand Finals being played at the MCG every year.

2015 hawks played eagles 3 times win 2 including 2 games at Subiaco?

How many more omissions do you have?


And if there were earned home grand finals, which teams qualified?
2019 2022 2023 the Victorian team would have qualified for a mythical home grand final
In 2015 hawks nominally qualified for home final under the rules at the time, despite eagles having a higher ladder finish
More cherry picking

I only get richmond over Adelaide as a genuine support of your argument

Non vic teams are not disadvantaged by not getting to play supposed home grand finals cos they have rarely qualified for one

 

[Rich01]

Victorians do tend to think they sports better than anyone else sports. But yes, a grand final in Perth or Adelaide or Brisbane would sell out regardless of who is playing. It’s already been proven.

Why is it that West Australians always feel the need to compare themselves with Victoria? Honestly it’s obsessive.

I don’t think Victorian’s think they do it better than anyone else. In fact I really enjoyed the Bris and Perth GFs.

But there seems to be some cry for validation out west for some reason.