Voss in 2013 (aka 'the Voss megathread')

[13Beast]

Voss has been under the media gun for years now. I'm sure it is nothing new to him. Besides, I don't think he actually DESERVES a two year contract, based on performances to date. That's not to say that he won't get another one. We don't want the club to portray this as a Ratten and Carlton style, "finals or you're done". Keep the PR and media to a minimum, and don't throw the media any bones. It is Brisbane too, which rates low in media coverage. With all the vultures circling soon around Malthouse, Buckley (if its a poor finals this year), Essendon, Melb's next coach etc, Voss being on a 1 year contract as opposed to a 2 year won't make a pinch of sh#t difference. What WILL make a difference is how the club portrays and illustrates the deal and the mechanics behind it to the media. Just like Carlton and Ratten...

In addition, to say that Kerr and co wouldn't be able to do their jobs because of not knowing where the club is going is total baloney. There are a long list of future variables that are unexpected such as injury, drop off/increases in performance and so on which can all dramatically change a club's list and needs, and a coach's contract is simply one of those, albeit one quite far down the list IMO in importance or relevance to Lions staffers doing their jobs day to day. So much so it would likely be a non-issue for the most part.

And besides, as any contract worker knows, you keep your head down and bum up and do the job day-to-day, you aren't thinking about "oh geez, I'm out of here in less than 12 months if I don't do x, y, z". Nor are the people around thinking that about you either. Voss has been in the job long enough, and I dare say him, Harvey, Kerr and so on are consummate professionals and will perform at their highest regardless.

 

[Hollow Knight]

In addition, to say that Kerr and co wouldn't be able to do their jobs because of not knowing where the club is going is total baloney.

In your opinion.

I discussed this with Dean Warren not too long ago. He implied that out-of-contract players are very keen to know what is happening with the club and the coach. If the player has to live through another new coach and another mini-rebuild, they idea of a fresh start elsewhere becomes more appealing. Especially if there is more money and/or a move closer to home on the cards.

I thought Leuenberger's comments recently reinforced that view when he said something along the lines "I haven't stuck around through all these down years to leave now while things are heading upwards".

Follow Maslow's heirarchy of needs. Once your basic needs are met, you start looking for other things such as stability and a sense of belonging/direction. It is all part of the picture. Stability and familiarity is one of the biggest reasons players stay at their current club. Take away that perception and the alternatives suddenly become worth considering.

Unless you want to argue that Melbourne's recent instability has done good things for their player retention... though I'd suggest you talk to Brent Moloney and Jared Rivers first. Both of them have indicated that the sacking of Dean Bailey was the catalyst for events that ultimately led to them leaving the club.

And besides, as any contract worker knows, you keep your head down and bum up and do the job day-to-day,

I think that is a rather idealised assessment without the full context. A coach of a developing side is often in the position where they can make short term decisions that improve perception of their performance but they might not necessarily result in the best long term outcome for the team/organisation.

If your hypothetical contract worker was in a similar situation and under threat of unemployment, they might make similar decisions.

 

[ozgamer]

I'm really frustrated with people wanting to move Harvey on. What is it that he is doing wrong?

He was sacked, I think viciously and prematurely from his previous position, is this the reason you have no faith in him?

It was the Perfect Storm. On the back of a disappointing 2011 season where Freo probably had the worst injury list going around, 12 mths after going from bottom 4 to top 6 and winning a home final against the Poos and Wees; talks of playing injured players against doctor's orders; talks of a couple of disgruntled players; and a frustrated yet conniving Victorian-based coach who felt the itchy trigger-finger urge to play the GTFO CLAUSE in his contract. Freo knifed Harvey in a manner that was more unceremonious than the time Madame Red daggered Little Kevin O'Heaven in the spine.

And if the Lions board could've done the same they would've done so. But we were and still are not cashed up like the Purple People Eaters and our list was and still is nowhere as developed and our football department has been and would still have to be one of the least developed in the competition. Ross Lyin's experience as an AFL HC "lies" with established rosters. Ready-made for a finals tilt and then a premiership. That is what Ross does well.


As for Harvs, I think someone who oversaw the regeneration of a Dockers list that had aged and then had a dose of the youth policy is pretty invaluable to have on the coaching staff considering the state of our list in recent years.

 

[Brisbane2013]

Voss has made some seriously stupid decisions in the past few weeks, he constantly drops players every week instead off persisting with them, he then also drops an improving forward prospect "lisle" in favor off a 29 year old backman who has few years left in him, and he's given polkinghorne more chances then any player deserves and we are a developing side, yet voss constantly neglects the kids.

He's obviously feeling the pressure, because these decisions are woeful

Meh!!!

I am happy that he is persisting with mayes though..

 

[Tairy Greene]

Oh get ****ed, seriously, stop screaming "WHY AREN'T WE PLAYING THE KIDS!?!" when it's quite easy to see we are playing the kids.

Gold Coast played their high draft pick kids last week with senior players out injured and look what happened, simply "playing the kids" means jack shit, look at the Demons, GWS, the Bullies. All very young and INEXPERIENCED sides that are getting tossed aside. You need big, mature bodies to protect the younger bodies in first grade and that is what we are doing. God ****ing dammit.

Why aren't you happy that he's persisting with Clarke, Lester, Golby and Harwood?

 

[Hollow Knight]

Voss has made some seriously stupid decisions in the past few weeks, he constantly drops players every week instead off persisting with them, he then also drops an improving forward prospect "lisle" in favor off a 29 year old backman who has few years left in him, and he's given polkinghorne more chances then any player deserves and we are a developing side, yet voss constantly neglects the kids.

He's obviously feeling the pressure, because these decisions are woeful

Meh!!!

I am happy that he is persisting with mayes though..

My fiancee said you can send a royalty fee for use of her photo in your avatar at any time.

 

[Skoob]

He's obviously feeling the pressure, because these decisions are woeful

..

Is this based on your many years of coaching experience?
Or because we have won 2 of our last 3 games?

 

[Ceebee]

Voss has made some seriously stupid decisions in the past few weeks, he constantly drops players every week instead off persisting with them, he then also drops an improving forward prospect "lisle" in favor off a 29 year old backman who has few years left in him, and he's given polkinghorne more chances then any player deserves and we are a developing side, yet voss constantly neglects the kids.

He's obviously feeling the pressure, because these decisions are woeful

Meh!!!

I am happy that he is persisting with mayes though..

There has been no players dropped this week. Just one forced change. I am afraid I do not understand what you are saying. It doesn't make any sense.

 

[SizeMatters]

Voss will get 2 years, I'm almost sure of it. The board might have been looking around for a potential replacement for Voss, but there is just no one available that is a known quality. Voss has a good understanding of what's needed for this list and it just takes time. A one year deal will look really bad and opens the club up for a double whammy of scrutiny, one for resigning Voss (it's inevitable for the media to be negative about this given his record) but also for signing him on a one year deal which will show no faith in him. I'm personally not a Voss head coach fan but he has done all right so far considering we are into our 2nd rebuild in 10 years.

 

[Brisbane2013]

Oh get screwed, seriously, stop screaming "WHY AREN'T WE PLAYING THE KIDS!?!" when it's quite easy to see we are playing the kids.

Gold Coast played their high draft pick kids last week with senior players out injured and look what happened, simply "playing the kids" means jack shit, look at the Demons, GWS, the Bullies. All very young and INEXPERIENCED sides that are getting tossed aside. You need big, mature bodies to protect the younger bodies in first grade and that is what we are doing. God ******* dammit.

Why aren't you happy that he's persisting with Clarke, Lester, Golby and Harwood?

I am happy with those players, but cmon.. mayes is a clear star out of that bunch, he is an elite midfielder we desperately needed

 

[Brisbane2013]

There has been no players dropped this week. Just one forced change. I am afraid I do not understand what you are saying. It doesn't make any sense.

not counting this week

 

[Haso]

I am happy with those players, but cmon.. mayes is a clear star out of that bunch, he is an elite midfielder we desperately needed

Tairy Greene wasn't disregarding Mayes, he was just using those players that he listed as examples.

not counting this week

Seriously Bris, your consistent Lisle spamming is becoming tiresome. You must realise how irritating it is. It's essentially the same post multiple times each and every week. You need to start giving it a rest.

 

[Tairy Greene]

I am happy with those players, but cmon.. mayes is a clear star out of that bunch, he is an elite midfielder we desperately needed

Well you've rebuked your own point, Mayes is in the side because he is a clear star, not because he is a kid. So why should the "kids" be gifted games then?

 

[Brisbane2013]

Tairy Greene wasn't disregarding Mayes, he was just using those players that he listed as examples.


Seriously Bris, your consistent Lisle spamming is becoming tiresome. You must realise how irritating it is. It's essentially the same post multiple times each and every week. You need to start giving it a rest.

I'm sorry if it's tiresome, and i wouldn't mind if lisle was replaced by the likes of martin, but sticking merrit in the forward line is a short term solution, not a long term

 

[Brisbane2013]

Well you've rebuked your own point, Mayes is in the side because he is a clear star, not because he is a kid. So why should the "kids" be gifted games then?

no 1 should be gifted games...

 

[Tairy Greene]

no 1 should be gifted games...

Exactly, neither should Lisle. Clarke is a better defender than Lisle is a foward/2nd ruck, which allows Merrett to take Lisle position, as Merrett is superior to Lisle in all aspects, I believe.

 

[Brisbane2013]

Exactly, neither should Lisle. Clarke is a better defender than Lisle is a foward/2nd ruck, which allows Merrett to take Lisle position, as Merrett is superior to Lisle in all aspects, I believe.

Lisle has earned a spot though, just watch his neafl highlights, anyways i know merrit is better then lisle, but we cant rely on him, like brown, he won't be around for that much longer

 

[Skoob]

Lisle has earned a spot though, just watch his neafl highlights, anyways i know merrit is better then lisle, but we cant rely on him, like brown, he won't be around for that much longer

Yeah, maybe, but we've still gotta play this week. We still need to try to win. We still have to give the youngsters that are playing support of experienced performers.
From that comment, you think we should drop Merrett, Brown Black, McGrath, Maguire, yesterday's heros. Patience grasshopper.

 

[Brisbane2013]

Yeah, maybe, but we've still gotta play this week. We still need to try to win. We still have to give the youngsters that are playing support of experienced performers.
From that comment, you think we should drop Merrett, Brown Black, McGrath, Maguire, yesterday's heros. Patience grasshopper.

We shouldn't.. then we would be screwed and i guess.. i am just basing most off this on the fact lisle isn't playing

 

[Hollow Knight]

Brisbane2013 lost me when he said he was basing his view on NEAFL highlights. Highlights videos make everyone look like stars.

 

[Ceebee]

Lisle has earned a spot though, just watch his neafl highlights, anyways i know merrit is better then lisle, but we cant rely on him, like brown, he won't be around for that much longer

Its Merrett not Merrit.....he will be a round for a while yet.

NEAFL highlights mean nothing.......nothing.

 

[dlanod]

Voss has made his bed, let him Lisle in it.

 

[Gibbo_88]

Voss has made his bed, let him Lisle in it.

He has a bit Longer

 

[Lionontheline]

He has a bit Longer

I just hope keeping lisle out has some merrett...

 

[Jorgo]

Makes threads very interesting to try and decipher when people are replying to what looks like nobody due to Ignored content