WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not, Part II

[YOTC]

WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not. Part II

"Look they don't have daylight savings, how barbaric, lets not trade with them"

"But we have 25 minutes natural daylight savings and we also average more daylight than any other city in Australia"

"Yes but we have daylight savings because it suits us, so it must suit you."

"If it did, then we would have it"

"You just haven't experienced how much better life is with daylight savings"

"We had a 3 year trial and the public still voted no"

"How dare you listen to the people in their own state living their lives, you should listen to the people from other places, they know better."

I can just see it happening!

 

[Eagle87]

Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.

Your own statement defines your own forceful approach pro-DLS.
If it gets voted NO then the majority of WA dwellers don't want it. Simple really.

I have a solution for your extra afternoon daylight addiction. You want the extra hours in the arvo..? Fine. Find a job with flexi-hours that enables you to do this without it impacting me. If you put half as much effort into that as you do your DLS arguments then you should have no problems. It would be win/win. You can have your extra daylight after work and I don't have it forced upon my unwilling soul. cheers!

I like that you are located in "wait awhile" - seems appropriate

A job? Some people remain employed, slaves to "the man" and all that?

I would have thought the majority of the broad minded, deep thinking anti-DLS are in fact business owners ... or perhaps not.

I am not overly concerned whether we do or dont have DLS - I spend 50% of my time outside WA and most of that in places where its always warm, the shops are open all day etc.

I simply find it hard to think of any solid reason why we wouldnt be better off adopting a measure that clearly increases leisure time and has some business benefits and also assists in making us seem a less backward place. Of course that last bit doesnt matter as we are not in the market for tourists, for migrants or for interstate migrants - dont need them, they can piss off, better we build a fence around the place! ....

With each post telling the world you dont care what they think, that people like me can move east etc etc, you simply further make all my points. Thanks.

Wait awhile ... ironic...

 

[YOTC]

Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.

I like that you are located in "wait awhile" - seems appropriate

A job? Some people remain employed, slaves to "the man" and all that?

I would have thought the majority of the broad minded, deep thinking anti-DLS are in fact business owners ... or perhaps not.

I am not overly concerned whether we do or dont have DLS - I spend 50% of my time outside WA and most of that in places where its always warm, the shops are open all day etc.

I simply find it hard to think of any solid reason why we wouldnt be better off adopting a measure that clearly increases leisure time and has some business benefits and also assists in making us seem a less backward place. Of course that last bit doesnt matter as we are not in the market for tourists, for migrants or for interstate migrants - dont need them, they can piss off, better we build a fence around the place! ....

With each post telling the world you dont care what they think, that people like me can move east etc etc, you simply further make all my points. Thanks.

Wait awhile ... ironic...

How dare we tell the world we know what's best for us!

Can you please tell me what food I should eat for lunch tomorrow. I'm scared the world will stop respecting me because if I don't eat something they approve of!

 

[Bunnie]

Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.

I like that you are located in "wait awhile" - seems appropriate

A job? Some people remain employed, slaves to "the man" and all that?

I would have thought the majority of the broad minded, deep thinking anti-DLS are in fact business owners ... or perhaps not.

I am not overly concerned whether we do or dont have DLS - I spend 50% of my time outside WA and most of that in places where its always warm, the shops are open all day etc.

I simply find it hard to think of any solid reason why we wouldnt be better off adopting a measure that clearly increases leisure time and has some business benefits and also assists in making us seem a less backward place. Of course that last bit doesnt matter as we are not in the market for tourists, for migrants or for interstate migrants - dont need them, they can piss off, better we build a fence around the place! ....

With each post telling the world you dont care what they think, that people like me can move east etc etc, you simply further make all my points. Thanks.

Wait awhile ... ironic...

Wait Awhile was in reference to the new stadium

Last I checked, Melbourne didn't invite us Sandgropers to vote in their Lord Mayoral election. I'm sure I also did not get a say in the upgrade of the MCG either...hmmmm but hey, they can tell us what we should be doing here. Cool!

I'm pretty sure the migrants and interstaters lobbing on our state were here for the economy, not some extra magical hour of daylight. In fact, I'm reasonably sure we have a tiny little housing crisis here due to our ever expanding population... lack of rentals... etc. Maybe we should can DLS so they will all leave like rats on a sinking ship to ease the crisis.

Let me get this straight.. you spend only 50% (at most) of your time here yet you want to force something upon me that imposes on my lifestyle 100% of my time.... arrogant much...?

 

[Eagle87]

Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.

How dare we tell the world we know what's best for us!

Can you please tell me what food I should eat for lunch tomorrow. I'm scared the world will stop respecting me because if I don't eat something they approve of!

Way to read a whole post and not understand any of it

Seriously, are we all so insular as to genuinely believe that others dont form of view of us based on our actions and that view can have an impact?

I absolutely believe its up to us to make decisions on the way we want to live and if WA decides that it doesnt want DLS then so be it. Even if the reasons for an behind that decision are not really based on the issue but rather a whole range of bias' and insular mindsets.

If the message we want to send re DLS and developments and a whole range of other things is that we are a bunch of small minded, small picture, insular people, then fine - thats our right.

On an unrelated issue, the number of highly talented, skilled young people leaving WA every year continues to grow. Ask most of them the reason why and small, country town, boring, dull, nothing happens here - they all get a run....

But hey, we will shape our destiny and every idea from somewhere else can just **** off.... We are WA and we know better.

I am now a convert, **** em.... can we get agreement on the fence?

 

[Eagle87]

Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.

Wait Awhile was in reference to the new stadium

Last I checked, Melbourne didn't invite us Sandgropers to vote in their Lord Mayoral election. I'm sure I also did not get a say in the upgrade of the MCG either...hmmmm but hey, they can tell us what we should be doing here. Cool!

I'm pretty sure the migrants and interstaters lobbing on our state were here for the economy, not some extra magical hour of daylight. In fact, I'm reasonably sure we have a tiny little housing crisis here due to our ever expanding population... lack of rentals... etc. Maybe we should can DLS so they will all leave like rats on a sinking ship to ease the crisis

Let me get this straight.. you spend only 50% (at most) of your time here yet you want to force something upon me that imposes on my lifestyle 100% of my time.... arrogant much...?

No-one from anywhere is telling us what to do. I am simply saying that we send a message about ourselves with these decisions - that isnt important in your view and you may be right. Not sure I agree. When Melbourne builds the best sporting facilities in Australia, it sends a message about itself - something like "we are a major city, we can build the best, we can do it bigger, better and we are a place you want to visit and a place where big events should be..." Its their decision to send this message.

I am a resident of Perth, business takes me away regularly, I pay my taxes, own property and am entitled to a view as to what the place I and my kids live in. I just think it should be a more dynamic and progressive place. DLS is simply a small step in a process of making decisions and making our capital city a bit more exciting (I said a bit)....

 

[Bunnie]

Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.

No-one from anywhere is telling us what to do. I am simply saying that we send a message about ourselves with these decisions - that isnt important in your view and you may be right. Not sure I agree. When Melbourne builds the best sporting facilities in Australia, it sends a message about itself - something like "we are a major city, we can build the best, we can do it bigger, better and we are a place you want to visit and a place where big events should be..." Its their decision to send this message.

I am a resident of Perth, business takes me away regularly, I pay my taxes, own property and am entitled to a view as to what the place I and my kids live in. I just think it should be a more dynamic and progressive place. DLS is simply a small step in a process of making decisions and making our capital city a bit more exciting (I said a bit)....

Fair enough.

However, you are arguing from an ideological viewpoint. I am voicing my viewpoint from my own personal experience.

As I have stated in other posts, DLS does not fit well with my own family. We own our own home, both pay massive chunks of tax, and we find that DLS impacts negatively in our household. When it was first introduced, I was neutral and my other half jumping up and down in glee. Now in our third year of the trial, my other half is already complaining bitterly and I'm hoping they end it a bit earlier as it really really drags.

When you lump anti-DLS people like myself into the one stereotypical "old fogies, grannies, nanny staters, backwater hillbillies" group, it makes my blood boil. I am non of the above. I am all for progress. I would love to see the emirates-style development off freo go ahead, as well as 5 star hotels on rotto, more high rise developments on some of our wonderful beaches. Sink the damn rail system, do something with the goddam freeways, give us a stadium that will hold our sports lovers, give me extended trading hours etc these are more necessary for our tourism promotions and ecomony than DLS alone.

*note: on the stadium issue, I liked the Burswood plan. The rectangular stadium and footy stadium sharing the one carpark... Restaurants and bars on tap for post game socializing...ahhhhh

 

[Eagle87]

Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.

Fair enough.

However, you are arguing from an ideological viewpoint. I am voicing my viewpoint from my own personal experience.

As I have stated in other posts, DLS does not fit well with my own family. We own our own home, both pay massive chunks of tax, and we find that DLS impacts negatively in our household. When it was first introduced, I was neutral and my other half jumping up and down in glee. Now in our third year of the trial, my other half is already complaining bitterly and I'm hoping they end it a bit earlier as it really really drags.

When you lump anti-DLS people like myself into the one stereotypical "old fogies, grannies, nanny staters, backwater hillbillies" group, it makes my blood boil. I am non of the above. I am all for progress. I would love to see the emirates-style development off freo go ahead, as well as 5 star hotels on rotto, more high rise developments on some of our wonderful beaches. Sink the damn rail system, do something with the goddam freeways, give us a stadium that will hold our sports lovers, give me extended trading hours etc these are more necessary for our tourism promotions and ecomony than DLS alone.

*note: on the stadium issue, I liked the Burswood plan. The rectangular stadium and footy stadium sharing the one carpark... Restaurants and bars on tap for post game socializing...ahhhhh

Fair enough.

Clearly not one of the "build a fence and keep 'em out group" and I agree with your views on those developments.

Maybe one day we wont have to wait awhile...

 

[Underdog]

Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.

On an unrelated issue, the number of highly talented, skilled young people leaving WA every year continues to grow. Ask most of them the reason why and small, country town, boring, dull, nothing happens here - they all get a run....

Sounds like complete and utter hearsay...

 

[Moo]

Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.

Sounds like complete and utter hearsay...

Absolutely.

Funnily enough every Aussie including every Perthite I speak to is heading home and looking forward to it (inlcuding this little black swan).

Every Pom I speak to is heading for Spain, Dubai, NZ, Aust, France etc.

With DLS and building - I can not understand why?

 

[Eagle87]

Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.

Absolutely.

Funnily enough every Aussie including every Perthite I speak to is heading home and looking forward to it (inlcuding this little black swan).

Every Pom I speak to is heading for Spain, Dubai, NZ, Aust, France etc.

With DLS and building - I can not understand why?

NFI.....

Honestly

If you are genuinely in Al Ain, I can understand why u want to come back. What I cant understand is why in gods name you went there in the first place.

And if you and that other bloke dont reckon we have a drain of our most talented going overseas to somewhat more exciting places than Al Ain then you are kidding yourself...

If you need a reference search "google", my numbers come from my sitting on the board of one major national professional association and also on a major national committee of another major professional body.

But hey, you guys arent interested in actual debate just reinforcing a view. Perth is the best place on Earth and cant be improved. No doubt.

 

[mantis]

Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.

I can assure you that the brickies, carpenters, builders etc.love it, because they start work before it gets hot & get to finish an hour earlier, so they spend less time in the heat. Seems the only ones who hate it, are country folk, who let's face it hate change & the anything that the Eastern States has WA don't want brigade.

 

[Underdog]

Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.

And if you and that other bloke dont reckon we have a drain of our most talented going overseas to somewhat more exciting places than Al Ain then you are kidding yourself...

Yeah...I'm sure the excitement of a city is the only reason an engineer would decide to leave Perth.

It would have nothing to do with ambition or opportunity whatsoever...

 

[Ljp86]

Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.

I can assure you that the brickies, carpenters, builders etc.love it, because they start work before it gets hot & get to finish an hour earlier, so they spend less time in the heat. Seems the only ones who hate it, are country folk, who let's face it hate change & the anything that the Eastern States has WA don't want brigade.

Bzzt, wrong.

 

[Moo]

Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.

NFI.....

Honestly

If you are genuinely in Al Ain, I can understand why u want to come back. What I cant understand is why in gods name you went there in the first place.

And if you and that other bloke dont reckon we have a drain of our most talented going overseas to somewhat more exciting places than Al Ain then you are kidding yourself...

If you need a reference search "google", my numbers come from my sitting on the board of one major national professional association and also on a major national committee of another major professional body.

But hey, you guys arent interested in actual debate just reinforcing a view. Perth is the best place on Earth and cant be improved. No doubt.

Yeah I mean it is not like I meet and play footy with professional guys from Dubai and Abu Dhabi...nor do we go and play in tornies like the Bali 9's and Dubai 9's where we play other expat teams from all over the world.

What is your reference point?

However your point is we get DLS and people will suddenly stop leaving Perth as it will be more exciting is a little hard to take seriously.

I can assure you that the brickies, carpenters, builders etc.love it, because they start work before it gets hot & get to finish an hour earlier, so they spend less time in the heat. Seems the only ones who hate it, are country folk, who let's face it hate change & the anything that the Eastern States has WA don't want brigade.

Softies ....should be starting at dawn regardless.

 

[mantis]

Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.

Bzzt, wrong.

BBBZZZT right, seeing as my ex was a labourer & I mixed with them, they love DLS. So say all you want, if you are a labourer, would you prefer to work when it's cooler, or when it's hot? Office workers don't know what it's like working out of their air conditioned offices.

 

[FunkyFreo2]

Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.

I honestly fail to see how people can hold such passionate opinions either way. To me it is a simple case of if it helps the economy then keep it, if not then just go a referendum and do what it says. Anyone who thinks that DLS is some sort of solution to Perth's ills is delusional. People who think it is a genuine imposition on their lifestyles is similarly delusional.

For what it is worth I've got a 1 and 3yo and the transition has been smooth as no dramas at all.

But yeah if there is a genuine business need and economic benefit to having it then those who oppose it through half-baked reasoning should just learn to take one for the team and live with it - seriously if it is THAT bad then you have some serious stubbornness issues...

 

[Moo]

Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.

Yeah...I'm sure the excitement of a city is the only reason an engineer would decide to leave Perth.

It would have nothing to do with ambition or opportunity whatsoever...

I left for large bags of cash.

 

[FunkyFreo2]

Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.

Softies ....should be starting at dawn regardless.

Which of course they cannot do without DLS in summer due to noise restrictions placed on their start times...

 

[Eagle87]

Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.

Yeah I mean it is not like I meet and play footy with professional guys from Dubai and Abu Dhabi...nor do we go and play in tornies like the Bali 9's and Dubai 9's where we play other expat teams from all over the world.

What is your reference point?

However your point is we get DLS and people will suddenly stop leaving Perth as it will be more exciting is a little hard to take seriously.



Softies ....should be starting at dawn regardless.

I have never said once that DLS will stop people leaving Perth. I have said that the attitude behind many of the naysayers which leads to Perth being a far less interesting and exciting place than it could be (because of the "lets not do anything" attitude that permeates the place) is problematic.

I have said, in the whole scheme of things, that no DLS will hardly be a huge deal but again, it further entrenches in the minds of others and plenty here that this is Wait Awhile and we are good at sticking with the old and not embracing any change at all.... which is fine if thats what we want.

My point of reference is that I have lived in London, Berlin, Boston, New York, San Diego, KL & Thailand in the last 10 years. I still am strongly connected to several of those places. I too played football in KL, Singapore, Jakarta, Bali, Bangkok, Pattaya & HCM in the last 2 years. My business has offices in Australia, Jakarta, Singapore, KL & Bangkok - we employ many professionals and others included locals and expats.

There are plenty of expats who are proud Aussies, who would raise their kids in Aust "when I get older" or "retire there" but they, in general, have no great desire to return to Australia during their prime earning years. This is supported by the professional body numbers which show a huge drain of qualified accountants, lawyers and others going overseas and not just for the 12 month trip per the old days but either permanently or for prolonged periods (Take at look at this from the ABC a couple of weeks back http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/programguide/stories/200810/s2384995.htm )

Personally, I think the experience of travel and living overseas is fantastic, one of the things it teaches you is to embrace change and experience new and interesting things. In Australia, cities such as Melbourne and Sydney reflect this "world" idea - cosmopolitan and all that. Perth has an opportunity to be a dynamic western city in asia (its about the same flight time to Indo, Sing & Malaysia as it is to Sydney) but we seem to prefer to remain a 1960's english outpost.

DSL is merely a symptom of, IMO, a severe conservatism that makes Perth about half as good as it could be. I dont understand the views of those who talk about disrupted sleep and "heat of the day" - my experience and that of pretty much anyone I speak with (with the exception of the negative nellies who hate everything) doesnt support those positions - but I respect the position that our government has created by making this a decision by referendum. If it doesnt get up, it doesnt get up. That said, I think it will be more a reflection of the negative, anti-anything view of many who live here rather than a more considered view which perhaps is behind your reasoning.

We could have a really great city here if we just had some people running the government who had some vision and some balls .....

Thats me done.

 

[JimDocker]

Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.

I have never said once that DLS will stop people leaving Perth. I have said that the attitude behind many of the naysayers which leads to Perth being a far less interesting and exciting place than it could be (because of the "lets not do anything" attitude that permeates the place) is problematic.

DSL is merely a symptom of, IMO, a severe conservatism that makes Perth about half as good as it could be. I dont understand the views of those who talk about disrupted sleep and "heat of the day" - my experience and that of pretty much anyone I speak with (with the exception of the negative nellies who hate everything) doesnt support those positions - but I respect the position that our government has created by making this a decision by referendum. If it doesnt get up, it doesnt get up. That said, I think it will be more a reflection of the negative, anti-anything view of many who live here rather than a more considered view which perhaps is behind your reasoning.

We could have a really great city here if we just had some people running the government who had some vision and some balls .....

Thats me done.

I have no problem with you believing that DLS is a great idea. It is the constant wrapping it up with other issues and suggesting that anyone that votes against it can be pigeon holed as a nay sayer.

As I said in a previous post, I am leaning towards voting yes.

I am for a new stadium, note: a new one away from Subiaco, preferably at East Perth where a holistic approach to creating a new vibrant area with art galleries, museums, taverns and restaurants. Alternatively, Burswood where it could be a joint government- private enterprise arrangement.

I am for, at this stage, the development of the Fremantle foreshore with the carbon neutral proposal, pending an independent study into it's impact. Fremantle in many areas is in drastic need of an upgrade.

I am for sinking the railway line that separates the CBD and Northbridge. I am actually for sinking Riverside drive aswell. It makes no sense to separate the city from it's natural highlight.

The interesting thing is that the previous state government sat on it's hands on these issues. In the case of the Fremantle development, Alan Carpenter simply said " it will never happen". Yet he embraced daylight savings. Why is he not being pilloried ?

I have at the moment tickets to the Big Day Out. If I arrive at 12-00 as the first act begins, I imagine by 5-00, I will have had enough of the sun and will want some relief by the time The Main Man, Neil Young comes on stage. Likewise, I have tickets for Alicia Keys, Leonard Cohen and Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds all at outdoor venues in summer. Shade is not great at these places and if I am to embrace life as people suggest no to DSL voters need to do, it means I will try to get there early and make a day out of it. If I get there early, I will be out in the sun for far longer than is healthy.

I am looking at daylight savings as a singular issue. It does not make me or others with doubts nay sayers.

As for the tradesman loving it as was suggested earlier. My experience as some body that has to negotiate and deal with them on a daily basis, they work whatever hours suit them.

 

[Zombie Woof]

Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.

I have no problem with you believing that DLS is a great idea. It is the constant wrapping it up with other issues and suggesting that anyone that votes against it can be pigeon holed as a nay sayer.

As I said in a previous post, I am leaning towards voting yes.

I am for a new stadium, note: a new one away from Subiaco, preferably at East Perth where a holistic approach to creating a new vibrant area with art galleries, museums, taverns and restaurants. Alternatively, Burswood where it could be a joint government- private enterprise arrangement.

I am for, at this stage, the development of the Fremantle foreshore with the carbon neutral proposal, pending an independent study into it's impact. Fremantle in many areas is in drastic need of an upgrade.

I am for sinking the railway line that separates the CBD and Northbridge. I am actually for sinking Riverside drive aswell. It makes no sense to separate the city from it's natural highlight.

The interesting thing is that the previous state government sat on it's hands on these issues. In the case of the Fremantle development, Alan Carpenter simply said " it will never happen". Yet he embraced daylight savings. Why is he not being pilloried ?

I have at the moment tickets to the Big Day Out. If I arrive at 12-00 as the first act begins, I imagine by 5-00, I will have had enough of the sun and will want some relief by the time The Main Man, Neil Young comes on stage. Likewise, I have tickets for Alicia Keys, Leonard Cohen and Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds all at outdoor venues in summer. Shade is not great at these places and if I am to embrace life as people suggest no to DSL voters need to do, it means I will try to get there early and make a day out of it. If I get there early, I will be out in the sun for far longer than is healthy.

I am looking at daylight savings as a singular issue. It does not make me or others with doubts nay sayers.

As for the tradesman loving it as was suggested earlier. My experience as some body that has to negotiate and deal with them on a daily basis, they work whatever hours suit them.

Leonard Cohen isn't on sale until Nov 10. How can you have a ticket?

 

[JimDocker]

Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.

Leonard Cohen isn't on sale until Nov 10. How can you have a ticket?

I am registered with A Day on the Green. As I have bought tickets to previous concerts run by them, I registered by ticking a box at some stage. This means that I get email notification of upcoming events with a possibility of an early bird sale and a password to be eligible..

In the case of Leonard Cohen, I received the email yesterday with an opportunity to buy tickets. The price is $129.00. I got 2 tickets at $116.10 as part of the deal.

I am registered with Ticketmaster also and I believe that they go on pre sale Monday 3/11/08. If you are not registered with them, you should do it now, then you will get the notification with a password a couple of days before.

 

[WA ROO]

Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.

BBBZZZT right, seeing as my ex was a labourer & I mixed with them, they love DLS. So say all you want, if you are a labourer, would you prefer to work when it's cooler, or when it's hot? Office workers don't know what it's like working out of their air conditioned offices.

Not the 30+ I speak to per week.They don't want it
But of course you are not involved in this debate as you left to get away from us

 

[YOTC]

Re: WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not.

BBBZZZT right, seeing as my ex was a labourer & I mixed with them, they love DLS. So say all you want, if you are a labourer, would you prefer to work when it's cooler, or when it's hot? Office workers don't know what it's like working out of their air conditioned offices.

Hilarious