WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not, Part II

[tesseract]

If it's something good, then don't you think people will vote yes. People don't say no to something just for the sake of it. They say no because they feel it will have a negative impact on their lives or the lives of others.

I doubt anyone consciously goes to the polls and thinks "I will vote no because I'm afraid of change".

The point you made is a bullying tactic often used by people wanting to get their own way.

It's hardly a bullying tactic when I've already stated that I don't care which way the DLS issue goes.
I doubt anyone is going to vote for the betterment of anyone but ones self.
To say that it'll have a negative impact on others is saying that you know better than them and this is for there own good. Who is anyone to have such a self righteous point of view of what's good or bad for others.
By the way it's supported else where except WA, sounds like WA is staunch in their I'm right, the rest of Aus is wrong.
I do take a neutral stance. I had myself taken off the registry, so I don't have to vote on corrupt political issues.
Are West Aussies enlightened or backwards?

 

[Great_Ocean_Road]

(sorry guys...had to do this)

How do you know it's not?

(we can do this merry go round all day....)

give me proof thay its skewed.

 

[Bunnie]

give me proof thay its skewed.

give me proof it's not.

 

[Great_Ocean_Road]

give me proof it's not.

I'm not the one that made the statement that the websitelink was skewed.

 

[Bunnie]

I'm not the one that made the statement that the websitelink was skewed.

sigh. If I must.

Airconditioners.
Western Power (as it was called) did a study of the energy consumption in 2007 after the first year DLS was started. They attributed an approx 10% increase in power consumption overall to the installation of air cond units. Fair enough, but hidden in their little tally was an overall 0.6% increase they attributed to DLS.
http://www.westernpower.com.au/subC...ctricity_consumption_and_Daylight_Saving.html


last year they reported a 1% energy consumption increase due to DLS and most studies from around the world are now saying that energy consumption has increased when DLS has been introduced.

Body clocks/sleeping patterns
http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicin...ever-Adjusts-to-Daylight-Savings-Time-4489-1/

in fact Kazakhstan abolished it citing health effects
http://eng.gazeta.kz/art.asp?aid=55766


shall I continue..?

In the end, people will vote for what works for them, and no amount of arrogance on either side will change that.

 

[greenred]

ts a minor issue that should be simply legislated and then forgotten about.

What if the legislation is for WA to not introduce DLS? Can we all forget about it then? Or can we only forget about it if the legislation is to introduce it?

I never said change is the way forward. Don't be putting words in my mouth. I don't care which way the DLS issue goes. I just think WA is a vote NO state and is backwards when it comes to most things.

It's hardly a bullying tactic when I've already stated that I don't care which way the DLS issue goes.
I doubt anyone is going to vote for the betterment of anyone but ones self.
To say that it'll have a negative impact on others is saying that you know better than them and this is for there own good. Who is anyone to have such a self righteous point of view of what's good or bad for others.
By the way it's supported else where except WA, sounds like WA is staunch in their I'm right, the rest of Aus is wrong.
I do take a neutral stance. I had myself taken off the registry, so I don't have to vote on corrupt political issues.
Are West Aussies enlightened or backwards?

What does DLS have to do with Western Australians being enlightened or backwards?

 

[tesseract]

^^^^ WA bucks the trend of the other states most of the time. Does WA know better than the rest of Aus or do they get it wrong and are slow to change.

 

[Eagle87]

What if the legislation is for WA to not introduce DLS? Can we all forget about it then? Or can we only forget about it if the legislation is to introduce it?

We can forget about it either way. However if the government weighed up economic benefits i.e. the view of business it would legislate yes.

A simple sensible government decision 30 years ago and this is all forgotten.

What does DLS have to do with Western Australians being enlightened or backwards?

I would have thought, in isolation, it means nothing. In a broader context it will be seen by others as a further example of our perceived backwards-ness - you don't believe that?

 

[Eagle87]

sigh. If I must.

Airconditioners.
Western Power (as it was called) did a study of the energy consumption in 2007 after the first year DLS was started. They attributed an approx 10% increase in power consumption overall to the installation of air cond units. Fair enough, but hidden in their little tally was an overall 0.6% increase they attributed to DLS.
http://www.westernpower.com.au/subC...ctricity_consumption_and_Daylight_Saving.html

Actually, from the report:

The daylight saving research showed slightly less power was used on days when the temperature went below 30 degrees, and slightly more power when the temperatures went above 30 degrees.

So really, if we have a hot summer there is a small increase and a cooler summer we save!!

We have 5 months covered by DLS, 3 of them have average temps under 30 and 2 over 30 .... its line ball at best ... a non-issue as acknowledged by Western Power.

last year they reported a 1% energy consumption increase due to DLS and most studies from around the world are now saying that energy consumption has increased when DLS has been introduced.

No report? On either?

By the way, whats the statistical margin in such a report? I mean its essentially guess work out to a 1-2% statistical variance, yes?

Of course it is.

Body clocks/sleeping patterns
http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicin...ever-Adjusts-to-Daylight-Savings-Time-4489-1/

Mainstream stuff their Bunnie... the girls all get around with their organic body creams and read that dribble?

It also says that ocean swimming has increased chances of staph bacterial infections - and here I was thinking swimming in salt water was good for me....

Seriously, next you will be telling us that DLS causes curtains to fade, same credibility!

in fact Kazakhstan abolished it citing health effects
http://eng.gazeta.kz/art.asp?aid=55766

Kazakhstan is the same country that released millions and millions of bank notes with the word "bank" spelled incorrectly. They also declined to issue the "analysis" you mention and are run by a somehwat benign but completely mad president ...

Yep, good stuff

shall I continue..?

Why not, you are helping the Yes case.

In the end, people will vote for what works for them, and no amount of arrogance on either side will change that.

The arrogance belongs to those who vote no because they are "affronted by others attitude" or because they "can't think of a reason to vote yes, even though they are ambivalent" or those who just want to "stick it up" someone because its the only "win" they might have in their pointless little lives....

And, yes, I am aware that was a little arrogant ... dealing with the little people brings that out in me...

 

[Bunnie]

Ok, here is the story Perth Now ran, based on the German scientists research into body clocks and DLS (oh gee, not a body lotion or hand cream in sight )

http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,22652016-2761,00.html

US research RE DLS and energy use

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/beyond-...energy-doubts-cloud-daylight-saving-time.html
http://www2.bren.ucsb.edu/~kotchen/links/DSTpaper.pdf
this is the latest study done
http://scienceblogs.com/cognitivedaily/2007/03/does_daylightsaving_time_reall.php

This one touches on the research done on the east coast too...

Sorry, I will try and find the link to the West Australian Newspaper article with regards to the approx 1% increase last year a little later. I have pizzas to make.

Using arrogance to brow beat to win an argument makes you the smaller man

 

[Eagle87]

Ok, here is the story Perth Now ran, based on the German scientists research into body clocks and DLS (oh gee, not a body lotion or hand cream in sight )

http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,22652016-2761,00.html

Quoting the same dubious source via a different outlet hardly changes its reliability.

How many hundreds of millions of people all over the globe are struggling with this debilitating condition?

US research RE DLS and energy use

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/beyond-...energy-doubts-cloud-daylight-saving-time.html
http://www2.bren.ucsb.edu/~kotchen/links/DSTpaper.pdf
this is the latest study done
http://scienceblogs.com/cognitivedaily/2007/03/does_daylightsaving_time_reall.php

The first one says and concludes nothing.

The second based on the great state of Indiana (which couldnt have more non-Perth type weather) and concludes that the problems arise from increased HEATING costs...

The the third is a blog entry by a guy who starts by saying he always hated DLS as a kid which then quotes the same non-mainstream sources as your first couple .... compelling!

Using arrogance to brow beat to win an argument makes you the smaller man

Arrogance is really an attitude of superiority which manifests in various ways... what does one do when one actually IS superior? I mean you are a bit of a lightweight at this stuff arent you.

 

[Docker Clint]

It's only a dubious source if it doesn't confirm your belief.

 

[Docker Clint]

As for that website being skewed, I'll answer myth one: he claims that people say Perth has enough daylight anyway and then compares to London etc. What he left out is that people think we have enough daylight in the evening.

Rather than type it all out again, I stole this from another source and please ignore the emotive tone this guy uses and read the facts:

Sydney is on about 151 degree and their time longitude is 150, Perth is on about 115 degree and our time longitude is 120.150 degree is just west of Penrith(a west Sydney suburb) 120 degree is just west of Coolgardie( definitely not an outer suburb). Every hour equates to 15 degrees,( my trip to London and Greenwich has been of use) so using your fingers and toes any moron can see we have a later sunset than the East coast anyway. Add in a geographical variable like our sun rising from behind Greenmount (1000 or so feet) causing a slight delay and setting across our wonderful Indian Ocean that extends our daylight(a long way to the horizon), then for Sydney you have the sun rising from the Pacific giving the East an earlier advantage, but in Sydney the sun sets behind The Great Dividing Range( a bloody big lot of mountains that includes Australias Highest in Kosciusko at around 7000 feet and that makes their sun disappear a bit quicker.Its no secret that we in Perth enjoy more daylight than our compatriots on the East coast anyway

 

[Eagle87]

As for that website being skewed, I'll answer myth one: he claims that people say Perth has enough daylight anyway and then compares to London etc. What he left out is that people think we have enough daylight in the evening.

Rather than type it all out again, I stole this from another source and please ignore the emotive tone this guy uses and read the facts:

Just checking todays, each of Sydney, Melbourne & Adelaide have longer daylight hours today than Perth...

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=196

But hey, I ignored his emotive tone, read the facts, checked them and guess what?? They were bullshit

 

[Eagle87]

It's only a dubious source if it doesn't confirm your belief.

Sorry??

No, the sources were dubious.

Kazakhstan - an unpublished report?

Other reports that didnt say what was advertised?

The only report that said what she wanted it to was the US report that said in Indiana, there was a 1% increase in energy use due to an EXTENSION of DLS right back to March (which is virtually still winter there) and the increase was caused by HEATING costs .... yes, one can see how that applies to Perth's DLS experience...

Unreliable ....

You struggle away but you really dont have much substance do you Clint?

Instead of saying No now, you should have said No before - the damage is now done and apparently irrepairable ...

 

[Docker Clint]

Just checking todays, each of Sydney, Melbourne & Adelaide have longer daylight hours today than Perth...

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=196

But hey, I ignored his emotive tone, read the facts, checked them and guess what?? They were bullshit

They are? well where is our time zone calculated from?

Have they bulldozed the Blue Mountains? Do tell.

 

[Docker Clint]

Perth
Sunrise at 6:54 AM
Sunset at 8:07 PM

Sydney
Sunrise at 6:30 AM
Sunset at 7:48 PM


timeanddate.com

 

[mantis]

Perth
Sunrise at 6:54 AM
Sunset at 8:07 PM

Sydney
Sunrise at 6:30 AM
Sunset at 7:48 PM


timeanddate.com

So Sydney does have more daylight.

 

[Eagle87]

Perth
Sunrise at 6:54 AM
Sunset at 8:07 PM

Sydney
Sunrise at 6:30 AM
Sunset at 7:48 PM


timeanddate.com

http://www.calculator.com/

 

[Docker Clint]

So Sydney does have more daylight.

Of course it does, it's on a lower latitude. Stop trying to twist the facts.

It doesnt remove the fact that the closer to the equator you get, the sillier DLS is.

Sunset in Perth is later, so is sunrise. Why do we NEED that? Tell me a real reason, I'm interested

 

[Eagle87]

Of course it does, it's on a lower latitude. Stop trying to twist the facts.

It doesnt remove the fact that the closer to the equator you get, the sillier DLS is.

Sunset in Perth is later, so is sunrise. Why do we NEED that? Tell me a real reason, I'm interested

Nice change of tack.

Much needed since you'd made an arse of yourself with the earlier post.

 

[Docker Clint]

Nice change of tack.

Much needed since you'd made an arse of yourself with the earlier post.

What? My argument is that we have a later sunset, always has been. We have more daylight at the end of the day. If you've misinterpreted that's your problem. You're trolling now.

You still haven't come up with an objective justification for DLS. Waiting..

 

[Eagle87]

What? My argument is that we have a later sunset, always has been. We have more daylight at the end of the day. If you've misinterpreted that's your problem. You're trolling now.

You still haven't come up with an objective justification for DLS. Waiting..

An objective argument?

Hmmm... 2 hour gap v 3 hours for business with our nations capital and centres of business...

and.. funnily enough .... more daylight at the end of the day when we can use it after we get home from work ....

Your objective argument seems to be YOU don't like something... very objective.

Not exactly sure what pushing us back to sunset at 7.07 really achieves apart from one less hour of sunlight at the end of the day.

But you know this and, as you stated earlier, you are just digging your heals in because someone was mean to you when you said you were against it - objective indeed.

 

[Ljp86]

An objective argument?

Hmmm... 2 hour gap v 3 hours for business with our nations capital and centres of business...

and.. funnily enough .... more daylight at the end of the day when we can use it after we get home from work ....

Your objective argument seems to be YOU don't like something... very objective.

Not exactly sure what pushing us back to sunset at 7.07 really achieves apart from one less hour of sunlight at the end of the day.

But you know this and, as you stated earlier, you are just digging your heals in because someone was mean to you when you said you were against it - objective indeed.

Do us all a favour and piss off.

 

[Eagle87]

Do us all a favour and piss off.

Nice post. Quality. Deep thinker arent you?

Of course its possible thats your best effort

EDIT: I checked, it is. 4 years and nothing. Wow....