- Banned
- #326
Do not resort to name calling.
Dls should be a part of WA.
Dls should be a part of WA.
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WA/Daylight Saving: To Join The 21st Century Or To Not, Part II
- Thread starter YOTC
- Start date
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Question: do you live in WA?
If not, then pffft. Opinion of no consequence as it will not be part of the referendum.
If so, why should it be part of WA?
I wonder how parents in Iceland cope in summer, when there is only 5 hours of darkness? I think it's between 11pm & 4am. I'm not the expert at their times, my son is the one who visits there often & says it's weird, also in winter they only have 5 hours of daylight, guess there isn't a problem getting the kids to bed then.
Where is the relevance to anyone in WA to a country which has extremes of almost 24 hours daylight, to almost 24 hours of darkness?
The question has already been asked, and no one has answered it.
If DLS is only contributing to a person's life in a negative way (ie, an extra excuse for the kids to not go to bed) with no positive impact, why should they vote yes?
If DLS is not having any impact on a person's life (positive or negative), why should they vote yes?
- Banned
- #329
A thing of this importance should not have the people of wa decide its fate.
- Banned
- #330
Without wanting to plough old ground, its this last sentence coupled with the one below that is everything wrong with this debate.
If a change has no impact on you one way or another, why vote no? Why is the negative response to change the standard one? And WA history suggests that this is the case.
Those who criticise WA and say we are a bit "backward", somewhat overly conservative could point to your statement and say, "Yep, thats WA, if in doubt just say no..."
.... and while strictly unrelated, when anyone proposes a foreshore development or a stadium or whatever else, we get 51% (and it will be about that in the DLS vote) who will say no... "we like Perth the way it is.." "we can build some new schools instread..", "we can employ some more police.." .... no change, nothing too big, we are Perth after all AND "I can't see any benefit for me, I like it just the way it is ... so NO!"
I am not arguing that the same people are the negative nellies in every one of those debates but a hard core are .... they are the ones who are the first to criticise anyone not from WA as "outsiders with no right for a say" or "interstaters can **** off" or "its different here" ...
Can I ask, if you had zero pro's or con's (as per your suggestion), why would you vote no?
This is THE key point. If any government in WA just legislated and introduced it then it would be a given and it would be long forgotten as an issue. Its now a major political football because of the history of the issue.
The government (most of them) in its rational, non-public (not looking at polls) moments see's benefits as do the business community and the majority of residents of Perth (see previous referenda), a simple law change and its done....
We will likely get a No vote though which will further enshrine a view that we are the "conservative" state, the do nothing state and so on.... doesn't matter, except when we need more workers and more investment and so on and we have to pay a premium because no-one wants to move here unless they get lots of money - certainly not for lifestyle reasons....
We are a boring/lifeless city by National and International standards, DLS won't solve that but it would be nice to see us take non-conservative steps as a sign that we might consider change....
We all like/dislike it for different reasons, it will be good to have the vote and settle it.
The Victorians in this thread can **** off and worry about some crap in their own state.
The Victorians in this thread can **** off and worry about some crap in their own state.
I paid taxes in WA for nearly 20 years, so I will give my opinion whether you like it or not. This is a public forum & everyone has a right to post their opinions.
But I hate it too.
The war is over, WA is one of the only states living in the modern era, yet there is still a push for regression.
I won't tell WA what to do, but I would 'suggest' they vote no.
- Banned
- #334
Spot on Eagle 87, Perth is a retirement village with grannies and grandpa's longing for the good old days. The grey heads hold to much political sway in WA. They try to block and resist anything new that can't be used or taken advantage of by them. We live 30 years in the past. That's why Perth is a joke and a poo stain of a city.
It is very important and affects every single West Australian. That is precisely why the people have to decide it's fate. The WA Govt cannot just legislate it and be done with it (as much as Eagles87 would like that - just because suits his own agenda
). To legislate it without public referendum would be political suicide. It leaves the next election to be fought on the keep/get rid of DLS platform without any other political views and platforms to be considered. Public vote is the only way to go. The Government is to govern not dictate. The public backlash and uproar would be heard in China if they decided to arbitrarily introduce it. The uproar over the enforced trial proved that.
In the end, it will come down to personal preference. Those who like it will vote yes. Those who don't will vote no. End of story.
Off you go then.
You do know arguments like this does not help your DLS cause? Best way to get someone offside is to insult them. That sort of attitude may cause others who were a little undecided to dig their heals in and say no.
- Banned
- #337
Correct. Which is the problem. Many country folk don't like being "forced" into something by city slickers and vote no on reflex... etc etc..
Which is why governments should make these decisions in a rational and considered way.
- Banned
- #338
It is very important and affects every single West Australian. That is precisely why the people have to decide it's fate. The WA Govt cannot just legislate it and be done with it (as much as Eagles87 would like that - just because suits his own agenda
Public vote is the only way to go. The Government is to govern not dictate. The public backlash and uproar would be heard in China if they decided to arbitrarily introduce it. The uproar over the enforced trial proved that.
In the end, it will come down to personal preference. Those who like it will vote yes. Those who don't will vote no. End of story.
The bolded bit is either complete bollocks or an insight into the mentality of WA voters (which would actually prove my point).
The government actually makes far more important decisions, from an impact point of view, every week in WA and does so without referenda... how do you reckon legalisation of marijuana growing or the same sex legislation pushed through by Jim McGinnty would have gone if they were the subject of referenda with funded Yes/No campaigns and with WA's stellar record of NEVER EVER saying yes to a single referendum vote since Federation??
Feel free to answer honestly ....
Its not that big of a deal as an issue in itself but the fact that people are voting on the basis of "someone insulted me" or "city people can just get up earlier" or "personally it doesnt effect me one way or another, so I will vote no" basically are all arguments as to why the government should simply weigh up the issues within its ambit and make a frigging decision....
But they wont, we will likely get a no vote and it will be gone forever .... the only lasting impression it will create is that we are ineptly governed and we are a backwards, regressive bunch of hicks (and that will be the impression whether its fair or otherwise)..... and before the "who cares what anyone else thinks, they can **** off.." brigade arrives, in case you arent aware we spend millions annually trying to lure tourists and migrants to our state - its a competitive business in both regards - perception matters.
In addition, we have the largest net outwards migration for any state (per capita) of local university educated young people in Australia.... they think its boring here ....
But hey, we are bloody appealing as a retirement village and maybe thats enough...
The bolded bit is either complete bollocks or an insight into the mentality of WA voters (which would actually prove my point).
The government actually makes far more important decisions, from an impact point of view, every week in WA and does so without referenda... how do you reckon legalisation of marijuana growing or the same sex legislation pushed through by Jim McGinnty would have gone if they were the subject of referenda with funded Yes/No campaigns and with WA's stellar record of NEVER EVER saying yes to a single referendum vote since Federation??
Feel free to answer honestly ....
Its not that big of a deal as an issue in itself but the fact that people are voting on the basis of "someone insulted me" or "city people can just get up earlier" or "personally it doesnt effect me one way or another, so I will vote no" basically are all arguments as to why the government should simply weigh up the issues within its ambit and make a frigging decision....
But they wont, we will likely get a no vote and it will be gone forever .... the only lasting impression it will create is that we are ineptly governed and we are a backwards, regressive bunch of hicks (and that will be the impression whether its fair or otherwise)..... and before the "who cares what anyone else thinks, they can **** off.." brigade arrives, in case you arent aware we spend millions annually trying to lure tourists and migrants to our state - its a competitive business in both regards - perception matters.
In addition, we have the largest net outwards migration for any state (per capita) of local university educated young people in Australia.... they think its boring here ....
But hey, we are bloody appealing as a retirement village and maybe thats enough...
It's not complete bollocks. The issue of DLS, having already been defeated over and over, getting suddenly legislated despite the public majority (to date) saying they don't want it would be political suicide. Making people - the majority of the people - accept something they really don't want is political suicide. We have had a trial and has it deafened the grumblers..? Have they just accepted it after 3 years and grown used to it? No. It is an emotive issue because it is based on public like and dislike. Not even in the same boat as the marijuana issue.
People voting no for the reasons listed above are not different to the ones voting yes "because they like it". Same same. Different sides of the same LIKE/DISLIKE coin. Insulting peoples opinions because they are different to your own is not the way to win anyone over. FACT. Just go and try it - pick a fight with your wife and see if you can win her over by insulting her.
You are right about the govt making more important decisions than this. Makes me laugh about the foaming of the mouth replies for and against DLS. But, hey, feel free to harp on about how earth shattering it is going to be if DLS gets defeated. It's making for a good read.
- Banned
- #340
It's not complete bollocks. The issue of DLS, having already been defeated over and over, getting suddenly legislated despite the public majority (to date) saying they don't want it would be political suicide. Making people - the majority of the people - accept something they really don't want is political suicide. We have had a trial and has it deafened the grumblers..? Have they just accepted it after 3 years and grown used to it? No. It is an emotive issue because it is based on public like and dislike. Not even in the same boat as the marijuana issue.
People voting no for the reasons listed above are not different to the ones voting yes "because they like it". Same same. Different sides of the same LIKE/DISLIKE coin. Insulting peoples opinions because they are different to your own is not the way to win anyone over. FACT. Just go and try it - pick a fight with your wife and see if you can win her over by insulting her.
You are right about the govt making more important decisions than this. Makes me laugh about the foaming of the mouth replies for and against DLS. But, hey, feel free to harp on about how earth shattering it is going to be if DLS gets defeated. It's making for a good read.
So I am right about the government making more important decisions but this isn't a decision they should make?
Ok....
It appears that, as with most women, logic and reason are not at the core of your decision making, its how you "feel" - which is equally valid I guess....
I am hardly foaming at the mouth by the way, simply pointing out that its not the big of a deal, that its only the issue it is because of the prior referenda which would never have occurred if we had a decisive government in place at any time... honestly, if you reckon a government that passed DLS into law in year 1 of a new term would lose said election 4 years later because of this issue, then you are beyond help ...
FWIW, I agree that there are no absolutely compelling reasons one way or another for DLS, its not that big a deal for me as an issue as I spend half my time elsewhere but I think it does become one of those issues that feeds into how we are seen as a place to live ... a bit backward and a bit conservative ... you disagree?
As for the marijuana or same sex relationships stuff, you run a campaign in both directions for 6 months and have never ended polls and opinion pieces in the paper for years and see people talking about pedophiles and drug addicted kids and you see how emotive it becomes .... this one has been with us for so long (decades) that large numbers of people are Yes/No like they are WC/Freo fans, for no logical reason and certainly not because one is "better", but rather because they just are .... thats the sort of stuff we elect governments to sort out without the exorbitant costs of pointless referenda ...
So I am right about the government making more important decisions but this isn't a decision they should make?
Ok....
It appears that, as with most women, logic and reason are not at the core of your decision making, its how you "feel" - which is equally valid I guess....
I am hardly foaming at the mouth by the way, simply pointing out that its not the big of a deal, that its only the issue it is because of the prior referenda which would never have occurred if we had a decisive government in place at any time... honestly, if you reckon a government that passed DLS into law in year 1 of a new term would lose said election 4 years later because of this issue, then you are beyond help ...
FWIW, I agree that there are no absolutely compelling reasons one way or another for DLS, its not that big a deal for me as an issue as I spend half my time elsewhere but I think it does become one of those issues that feeds into how we are seen as a place to live ... a bit backward and a bit conservative ... you disagree?
As for the marijuana or same sex relationships stuff, you run a campaign in both directions for 6 months and have never ended polls and opinion pieces in the paper for years and see people talking about pedophiles and drug addicted kids and you see how emotive it becomes .... this one has been with us for so long (decades) that large numbers of people are Yes/No like they are WC/Freo fans, for no logical reason and certainly not because one is "better", but rather because they just are .... thats the sort of stuff we elect governments to sort out without the exorbitant costs of pointless referenda ...
This bit here earns you a *smack* Norty Norty! You'll invite mantis back in again posting this!I think the more progressive issues such as lack of proper sporting facilities and no foreshore development, no nice ripsnorting hotels on the coast and rotto (no, ob city doesn't count!) to speak of influences the perception more than lack of daylight savings.
DLS is directly affecting (to whatever degree) every West Aussies daily life so that is why they won't just legislate it. Most other decisions made are ones where the law abiding majority go "oh, that makes sense".
DLS is one of the ones they throw to us because the govt don't want to be unpopular and want to be re-elected.
Other lines of argument are more convincing than the just do it anyway one.
- Banned
- #342
I think the more progressive issues such as lack of proper sporting facilities and no foreshore development, no nice ripsnorting hotels on the coast and rotto (no, ob city doesn't count!) to speak of influences the perception more than lack of daylight savings.
DLS is directly affecting (to whatever degree) every West Aussies daily life so that is why they won't just legislate it. Most other decisions made are ones where the law abiding majority go "oh, that makes sense".
DLS is one of the ones they throw to us because the govt don't want to be unpopular and want to be re-elected.
Other lines of argument are more convincing than the just do it anyway one.
Is was meant to earn a norty norty - well handled
Hundreds of decisions effect us everyday.
DLS was simply legislated in every other state (bar Qld) and in most other Western Countries - some disagreement, the law is passed, end of story...
We here in WA have made it an issue because of the indecisiveness of governments past.
Observation city is a shit-hole on that we agree. I would just suggest that some people from WA need to travel more, see the world and see just how ****ing backward we are in a whole range of areas....
I understand your point, but I don't believe this is a valid reason for voting yes. DLS is not going to have any impact on the excitement or otherwise of Western Australia.
How is DLS going to change any of that? Has Perth become a less of a joke or 'poo stain' in the last 3 years during the DLS trial? Will DLS build a new stadium, release restrictions on trading hours or develop the foreshore?
- Banned
- #344
Baby steps greenred, baby steps....
Maybe learn to crawl before we walk and all that.
I think what the trial has done is show how many "naysayers", "negative nellies" and so on there are in the state. I think the complete lack of outrage about the downsizing of the foreshore development and the governments ability to say they will do something thats "family friendly" with very little discussion or debate is more of an issue ... but as i said, maybe its baby steps...
I just wonder how many people in Perth realise how far away we are from being either a dynamic, energetic city OR family friendly - we are just a souless backwater ... put do people realise that?
The mentality (and before one of you overly sensistive no-ers jumps in, the stereotype doesn't apply to each and every one of you) of the majority of people on the "no" side is the same mentality that says "Sorry, the shops can't open on Sundays - it'll lead to the downfall of society!" or "Sorry, we want to turn the Northbridge Link into a park - that'll be nice!" or "Sorry, we can't have a new sports stadium - that money has to go somewhere more palatable!" or "Sorry, we can't have more than one big music festival at the Claremont Showgrounds!" or "Sorry, you can't play more than six night games a year at Subiaco - the lights shine into my trendy new townhouse!" or "Sorry, we can't make it attractive for people to open small bars and restaurants - we'll have criminals wandering the streets!".
Daylight savings is just another little thing that people are going to add to a very long list of "why I don't want to settle in Perth unless I'm paid an overinflated salary".
Bunnie said:
The fact that a majority of young, well educated professionals are taking your advice is ultimately the key problem.
- Banned
- #346
Perth was once a beautiful city before the ****wits in charge decided in their infinite wisdom to bulldoze 70% of the old buildings in the name of progress.
It's what swayed me.
I was keen for it when I moved here and bought the party line of not having it being backward etc.
But if the only argument for something is abuse and insults, then something is rotten and it lead me to examine the reasons for and against. No one has ever once come up with an objective reason for the introduction of DLS. Not one.
Well you dont live here anymore and your input is null and void. You live in a state that has DLS, therefore you should be happy.
You're like a racist who wants immigrants to change their cultural beliefs so you can feel comfortable that your beliefs are validated. It's amazing how angry people get when others want to live their lives in a different way from how you perceive things "should" be done.
And if the vote falls the same way yet again, will the pro-DLS people shut up and leave everyone else alone? It's a democracy and a minority viewpoint shouldn't be forced upon the entire state.
What is it about a loud minority wanting to get their way?
It's mainly urban dwellers who dont work early who want it. If the population of Perth was half what it is now, the vote would be closer to 70% against.
Some electorates voted 88% no.
The thing is, the previous votes were held years apart and the same result was achieved each time. Do you think that anyone under 30 was barred from voting last time?
What conclusion will you draw if this vote is similar to previous times?
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