Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 2

[Gethelred]

This is a sensitive area for some. With that in mind, I'm going to remind a few posters a few things:

• personal attacks are against forum rules. From this point, any attacks that are directed at another poster will be treated with a warning, then infractions and threadbans if it continues.
• the spread of misinformation is also against the rules. This is taken very seriously by moderation, and you will be asked to support your opinion from time to time. If you cannot satisfy this, you will be provided an opportunity to retract your post; if you do not, you will receive an infraction and a threadban on that basis.

This is a forum for adults, and I'd appreciate you all treating each other appropriately.

 

[Mobbs]

Apparently the Neptune missiles are a sea skimming device, thereby not easily detected by air defence forces. Goes to explain how a warship with 64 S-300 tubes missed seeing it.

This ship is one of 3. The other two are based in other parts of the world, so there are none left for this battle.

You might be the one to know about this cos you come from a military info sources perspective while I'm just the protesting and media shiz. But wasn't there a whole big deal once about Russia deciding to attack Japan yonks ago, so they sent off a massive fleet of ships from the North Sea, so had to travel this massive amount of distance around all Europe, up through the Indian Ocean and asian sea to get to Japan in order to launch the offensive ... taking like an eon ... and when they finally got there Japan just said 'plonk' and sunk basically the entire armada in an instant?

I just remember seeing this somewhere. Maybe my info is off, but it wow'd me. It is stunning sometimes how best laid plans ... just aren't always so well-laid at all ....

 

[Crow54]

This is clever.

 

[CD Xbow]

This might make it easier to hit other ships, I read that Moskva had S300s on board.

It will. The cruiser was a key air defence vessel and the flagship. The other major combatants are frigates with a comparatively modest air defence. Much of the fleet is amphibs and landing craft. Sitting ducks for cruise missiles.

You might be the one to know about this cos you come from a military info sources perspective while I'm just the protesting and media shiz. But wasn't there a whole big deal once about Russia deciding to attack Japan yonks ago, so they sent off a massive fleet of ships from the North Sea, so had to travel this massive amount of distance around all Europe, up through the Indian Ocean and asian sea to get to Japan in order to launch the offensive ... taking like an eon ... and when they finally got there Japan just said 'plonk' and sunk basically the entire armada in an instant?

I just remember seeing this somewhere. Maybe my info is off, but it wow'd me. It is stunning sometimes how best laid plans ... just aren't always so well-laid at all ....

History rhymes. The Russo-Japanese war 1904-5 led to domestic unrest which culminated in the 1905 Russian Revolution, known as the First Russian Revolution. Let's hope something similar happens after Putin stupid war.

 

[Mobbs]

More examples of the great denazifiers marking the doors of activists with "Z" and gallows (on this occasion) to ensure they don't forget who to cleanse. Because it sure doesn't remind us of anything from WW2. Not quite as out-there as the one the other day which specified the resident was a "jewish sow", but still pretty clear.



In Kirov, local activist Aleksey Anofriev discovered on the morning of April 10 his door with the letter Z and the image of the gallows. Previously, Anofriyev received threats on the Internet. In addition, his phone number and address were in the public domain.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Neptunes are better than Harpoons - I think it was a question of when they'd be online and operation.

Might not even need that. Even a lowly switchblade pointed at one of those occupied deck tubes could have been a little unhealthy for that ship?

 

[mighty tiges]

 

[Mobbs]

Novaya Gazeta are reporting on a new wave of sanctions coming from us mugginses over here

Australia imposed sanctions against Russian Railways, Gazprom and 12 other companies. The Australian authorities have expanded the sanctions list and added 14 Russian legal entities to it. This was reported on the government website.

The following were sanctioned: "Gazprom"; "Gazprom Neft"; "Transneft"; KamAZ; Novorossiysk Commercial Sea Port; "Ruselectronics"; ALROSA; JSC "Russian Railways"; JSC "United Shipbuilding Corporation"; "Sevmash"; "Sovcomflot"; "Rostelecom"; "RusHydro"; Sogaz.

Earlier, Australia banned Russian President Vladimir Putin, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin and Interior Minister Vladimir Kolokoltsev from entering the country.

This is the link they included for the site back at our gov:

Federal Register of Legislation - Autonomous Sanctions (Designated Persons and Entities and Declared Persons—Russia and Ukraine) Amendment (No. 12) Instrument 2022

www.legislation.gov.au

 

[HirdyLannister]

I want the west to start selling off the assets they've seized, like the yachts and prime real-estate of the oligarchs.

Hit them where it hurts and xfer the funds to Ukraine.

 

[Power Raid]

I want the west to start selling off the assets they've seized, like the yachts and prime real-estate of the oligarchs.

Hit them where it hurts and xfer the funds to Ukraine.

No point

1) putin will/ has ceased assets of the west in russia and will buy favour with the dispossessed
2) the west will need to repatriate the russian olgarchs, with interest and damages, under property right laws and international commitments

 

[Mobbs]

The commentary out of the Kremlin is still actually kindah "dunno tbh" about the Moscow. The vibe doesn't feel so much as denial as it does like 'seriously don't really have the data right now'.

I think our first guess is still a pretty good one.

The Kremlin cannot say what actually happened to the Moskva cruiser: “This is a question for the Ministry of Defense.”


(no confirmation about its condition tho which is curious)

 

[wannabejack]

Russia warns of nuclear, hypersonic deployment if Sweden and Finland join NATO

One of Russian President Vladimir Putin's closest allies warned NATO on Thursday that if Sweden and Finland joined the U.S.-led military alliance then Russia would deploy nuclear weapons and hypersonic missiles in a European exclave.

www.reuters.com

Medvedev also explicitly raised the nuclear threat by saying that there could be no more talk of a "nuclear free" Baltic - where Russia has its Kaliningrad exclave sandwiched between Poland and Lithuania.

Lithuanian Defence Minister Arvydas Anusauskas said Russia had deployed nuclear weapons to Kaliningrad even before the war.
"Nuclear weapons have always been kept in Kaliningrad ... the international community, the countries in the region, are perfectly aware of this," Anusauskas was quoted as saying by BNS. "They use it as a threat."

 

[Lethality]

The Russian Cruiser ‘Moskva’ Dominates The Black Sea

The Russian navy cruiser Moskva by far is the most powerful warship in the Black Sea. If Russian President Vladimir Putin orders his troops to widen their war in Ukraine, Moskva, the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet, undoubtedly would lead the naval assault.

www.forbes.com

 

[Saint]

Terrible couple of days for Putin.

Sinking the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet. How long have NATO known how to counter Russian air defences and when did they tell the Ukrainians?
Viktor Medvedchuk found and arrested in Ukraine (Putin was going to install this guy as President when he took over. Putin is Medvedchuk's daughters godfather).
Another massive explosion of ordnance at Kherson airport.
Finland and Sweden lining up to join NATO.

I wonder when they'll start calling the Finns nazis.

RUssia's 9th May holiday is a big deal. Putin will be launching Operation raze-everything along with operation Cannon-fodder. It'll be poor conscripts told to march westward and just pick up the gun/food/water of the guy in front when he dies.

 

[Mobbs]

While this Telegram post bullshits a bit and tries to say that Russia are now claiming the Moscow was sunk deliberately as a decomissioning project, the actual text they are commenting on, does suggest a kind of a shrug from Russia who say "well, it's past time we were switching out the old ones anyway ..."

The commentary claims: In Russia they say that the destruction of the flagship "Moskva" was planned. The "special operation" for the disposal of the Russian ship took place as part of the "decommissioning" of old Soviet ships.
The reality of the text: What does the failure of the Moskva flagship missile cruiser mean? Experts interviewed by RBC are sure that the failure of the cruiser will not affect the course of the special operation, but is an argument in favor of decommissioning the old Soviet large ships

Oh yeah and Trump used the G word:

 

[bzparkes]

Ukraine declared a 'crime scene' by the ICC(not the cricket authority).

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/ukraine-declared-crime-scene-by-international-criminal-court-investigators/news-story/c1f4a9b255e5bef7b3555234466e7678

 

[sdfc]

The big banks have been out there buying up distressed foreign-owned Russian assets. War profiteering at its best.

 

[bzparkes]

It'll be poor conscripts told to march westward and just pick up the gun/food/water of the guy in front when he dies.

 

[oogac]

While this Telegram post bullshits a bit and tries to say that Russia are now claiming the Moscow was sunk deliberately as a decomissioning project, the actual text they are commenting on, does suggest a kind of a shrug from Russia who say "well, it's past time we were switching out the old ones anyway ..."


The commentary claims: In Russia they say that the destruction of the flagship "Moskva" was planned. The "special operation" for the disposal of the Russian ship took place as part of the "decommissioning" of old Soviet ships.
The reality of the text: What does the failure of the Moskva flagship missile cruiser mean? Experts interviewed by RBC are sure that the failure of the cruiser will not affect the course of the special operation, but is an argument in favor of decommissioning the old Soviet large ships

Oh yeah and Trump used the G word:

Russia will surely make an annoucement soon ... Nothing to see here, Moskva has been promoted to submarine class

 

[TedDougChris]

Meanwhile … at the Russian Embassy in Washington

What did it say ??

 

[oogac]

What did it say ??

Damn, so funny!!!! Someone had illuminated a Ukraine flag on the front of Russian Embassy in Washington and the ruskies were using a spotlight to fade the image out.

 

[Mobbs]

Klimovo just over the border into Russia from Ukraine sufferered some shelling. FSB says its Ukraine firing.

The border checkpoint in the Bryansk region was fired from Ukraine, the FSB reported. Damage was received, including two cars of refugees. People were not hurt. Residents of the neighboring village of Klimovo publish these photos from the place, claiming that the shells also hit the village.

 

[oogac]

 

[Mobbs]

Meduza stitches together everything it can work out about the Moscow's plight.

Затонул флагман Черноморского флота — крейсер «Москва». Его потеря может серьезно ослабить защиту кораблей, участвующих в войне В Украине заявили о ракетном ударе, в России — о пожаре и детонации боезапаса — Meduza

На борту российского ракетного крейсера «Москва», флагмана Черноморского флота РФ, вечером 13 апреля возник пожар. Украинские СМИ и политики заявили, что крейсер был поражен двумя ракетами «Нептун» украинского производства. Минобороны РФ объявило, что на крейсере начался пожар, в результате...

meduza.io

For a heads-up, it's more little details but not really much more in the way of leads.

The flagship of the Black Sea Fleet, the cruiser Moskva, caught fire.
Its loss can seriously weaken the protection of ships participating in the war In Ukraine, they announced a missile attack,
in Russia - about a fire and detonation of ammunition

On board the Russian missile cruiser Moskva, the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation, a fire broke out on the evening of April 13. Ukrainian media and politicians said that the cruiser was hit by two Ukrainian-made Neptune missiles. The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation announced that a fire had started on the cruiser, as a result of which ammunition began to explode. The Ministry of Defense did not name the cause of the fire, saying only that it was "being established."

About 21:00 Moscow time, the Ukrainian journalist Serge Marko wrote on Facebook that the Moskva cruiser was hit by missiles . Later, the sources of Ukrainska Pravda in the intelligence of Ukraine and representatives of the Odessa Regional Military Administration (OVA) stated the same , who noted that even if the cruiser could be extinguished, then “in the next year it will not be combat-ready.”

On the night of April 14, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation also announced a fire on board the cruiser. The report said that because of the fire on board the cruiser detonated ammunition. “The ship was seriously damaged. The crew has been completely evacuated," the Defense Ministry said. This wording means that the cruiser may have failed, since the crew's duties include the struggle for the survivability of the ship until the moment when it can still be saved.

On the afternoon of April 14, the Ministry of Defense announced that the fire on the cruiser Moskva had been contained, the explosions of ammunition had ceased, and the main missile armament of Moskva had not been damaged. The Moskva cruiser remains buoyant and is going to be towed to the port, the Russian Defense Ministry said in a statement. Representatives of the operational command "South" of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, in turn, claim that the cruiser "began to sink" due to the damage received, without disclosing other details.

Whether there were injured or dead as a result of the incident, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation does not specify. In total, up to 680 crew members could be on board the ship. At the same time, in different years, Russian media reported that the crew of the cruiser consisted of 416 or 510 people.

It is not exactly known exactly where the cruiser was located in the Black Sea at the time of the incident. According to Radio Liberty , as early as April 10, the ship was in Sevastopol. The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and Russian news agencies do not provide any information about the whereabouts of the ship. Ukrainska Pravda's sources say the cruiser caught fire about "20 nautical miles from Serpent's Island", where there was a severe storm at the time. The fact that the cruiser "Moskva" participated in the operation near Snake Island in the Odessa region and it is with it that the phrase "Russian warship, go *****!" , the Ukrainian side paid special attention.

What threatens the loss of "Moscow"
One of the tasks of the cruiser is air and missile defense in the interests of all the forces of the fleet: the ship carries on board long-range air defense systems S-300 Fort.

The loss of Moskva's combat readiness can seriously weaken the protection of the fleet forces participating in the war with Ukraine from air attacks. Probably, the Moskva, the only ship of its class remaining in service (there is still the Varyag in the Pacific Fleet and the Marshal Ustinov in the Northern Fleet), did not receive new radars during modernization that could effectively detect low-flying targets like the Neptune anti-ship missile .

The displacement of "Moscow" is 9800-11 300 tons. If the cruiser cannot be saved, then this will be the largest combat loss of the world's fleets since 1982

What is known about the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet
According to the website of the Russian Ministry of Defense, the Moskva missile cruiser was laid down in 1976 at the Nikolaev Shipyard named after 61 Communards in Ukraine and was originally called Slava. Seven years later, the ship was commissioned into the fleet. The cruiser became the lead ship of the Soviet missile cruisers project, whose main task was to attack enemy surface ships using anti-ship missiles.

In the 1990s, in the process of dividing the Black Sea Fleet between Russia and Ukraine, Russia received the ship. Kiev received an unfinished cruiser of the same class "Ukraine", which is still on the stocks of the shipyard in Nikolaev and was possibly fired upon by Russian artillery in March 2022.

After the transfer to the Black Sea Fleet of Russia, the Moskva underwent modernization twice (the last one was completed in 2020; then the military reported that the updated cruiser would be able to serve until 2040). After modernization, the main armament of "Moscow" are 16 launchers of anti-ship missiles "Volcano".

In 1989, the crew of the cruiser accompanied the meeting of the leaders of the USSR and the USA, Mikhail Gorbachev and George W. Bush, Sr. in Malta. In 1999, already under the name "Moscow", the cruiser was sent to the main base of the Black Sea Fleet - to Sevastopol.

The ship was repeatedly visited by Russian President Vladimir Putin, along with leaders of other countries. So, in 2000 and 2001, during visits to Sevastopol, Putin boarded a cruiser with Ukrainian President Leonid Kuchma.

In 2008, Moskva took part in the armed conflict in South Ossetia; in 2015-2016, the cruiser carried out air defense from the sea direction of the Russian Khmeimim air base in Syria.

 

[mighty tiges]

While this Telegram post bullshits a bit and tries to say that Russia are now claiming the Moscow was sunk deliberately as a decomissioning project, the actual text they are commenting on, does suggest a kind of a shrug from Russia who say "well, it's past time we were switching out the old ones anyway ..."


The commentary claims: In Russia they say that the destruction of the flagship "Moskva" was planned. The "special operation" for the disposal of the Russian ship took place as part of the "decommissioning" of old Soviet ships.
The reality of the text: What does the failure of the Moskva flagship missile cruiser mean? Experts interviewed by RBC are sure that the failure of the cruiser will not affect the course of the special operation, but is an argument in favor of decommissioning the old Soviet large ships

Oh yeah and Trump used the G word:

"people have never seen anything like that before".

Yeah thanks Donald. Ukraine has never seen genocide before .

 

[mighty tiges]

More sitting ducks. This time Russian infantry ...



... and a Russian vehicle column crossing a bridge.