Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 2

[Gethelred]

This is a sensitive area for some. With that in mind, I'm going to remind a few posters a few things:

• personal attacks are against forum rules. From this point, any attacks that are directed at another poster will be treated with a warning, then infractions and threadbans if it continues.
• the spread of misinformation is also against the rules. This is taken very seriously by moderation, and you will be asked to support your opinion from time to time. If you cannot satisfy this, you will be provided an opportunity to retract your post; if you do not, you will receive an infraction and a threadban on that basis.

This is a forum for adults, and I'd appreciate you all treating each other appropriately.

 

[Chief]

Also Admiral Igor Osipov Commander of the Black Sea Fleet has been arrested

For enjoying a sumptuous Chinese meal??! This is democracy manifest!

 

[Mobbs]

Personally I celebrate this but there is a problem, she is alone (a minority)

Take a step back here.........Australia has a freedom from government that even the US would love to have. Why? because of the blood shed by generations of Englishmen, pulling back power from their king back to the people. Quite simply, the English "earned" their freedom and are responsible for that freedom.

Conversely Russia has not earned their freedom and are responsible for that.

If every Russian stepped out onto the street, would Putin arrest them all? No.........he would probably kill a few thousand hoping fear will put them back into their place but after that concede.

Unfortunately I fear Russian blood is a failed blood. I say this because in any society there is 10% motivated by success and 90% motivated by fear of failure. With the iron curtain closing in, most of the 10% either fled or found themselves in a gulag. The remainder in the absence of leadership is weak and compliant, motivated by avoiding the wrath of government. Thus the russian people won't stand up for what is right, as it is not in their blood.

Yes Putin would arrest them all, or as many as he could latch onto and squeeze into a divvy van (until someone stops him, somehow). Russia already has had more people arrested in the last month or so than we've probably had arrested for protesting in our nation's entire history.
And he won't just arrest them all. He'll kill a few too. Something else we don't do here.

She's a minority in mathematical terms yes, but not the way you say it. I watch OVD and tend not to quote so many of them, because I notice nobody seems to give a ****. The arrests just keep rolling on and on and on. A bloke working at the mayor's office in Elista (southern Russia) just got raided by the FSB yesterday ... for example. There's the four activists from DOXA, there's the woman who wrapped herself in a Ukrainian flag out front of the Kremlin. No point making a post for every single one of these.

They keep protesting and they keep getting arrested.

'Blood', in the metaphorical way you say it, changes with time.

 

[Mobbs]

My grand father was born in the Austro Hungarian empire and ended up fighting for Slovakia and then Hungary on the Russian front. The Russians would attack the Axis positions by simply charging and doing exactly this "picking up the rifle of the dead" as only one in ten had a weapon.

The Axis machine gunners had two men, one firing and the other rubbing snow and ice onto the barrel to prevent to barrel getting so hot it lost shape. but the hot cold hold cold, risked the metal getting brittle and exploding.

So it became a battle of over the Russians over running the Axis positions knowing at some point they would have to reload, change barrels or run out of ammunition.

Despite this madness, the war itself was not the biggest fear but rather the fear of going to sleep. In minus 40 degrees if you go to sleep, you don't wake up. Men simply turned to ice.

Sadly we don't seem to learn.

That's chilling stuff btw. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Mobbs]

To be honest, the west needs a bloody Ukraine and a bloody/ wiped out Taiwan.

When Indonesia was invaded by the Japanese, they celebrated freedom and good riddance to the dutch. "yeah, we the Japanese will be so much better". Then the realisation set in.

The West will benefit from ultimately seeing the Ukraine be torn apart slowly with atrocities beyond comprehension on European soil. As it unites others as we are seeing with finland, sweden and potentially others. It might even get some SE Asian nations rethinking. In this decade we have seen much of central asia fall already and it was not bloody enough to cause alarm. Where this is a real wake up call for Turkey, India and African states. These three jurisdictions will determine how the remainder of this century plays out and they are getting a glimpse of the alternatives.

Oh yeah it's true - an atrocity is a great teaching tool, but it doesn't change the fact of the 'cost'. I mean, it's easy to say that if you're not talking to people who are there. But I'll be sure to let them know your valuation ethic.

 

[kranky al]

 

[Mobbs]

Kasyanov talking about his take on the source of Putin's Ukraine obsession.



Kasyanov was past Russian leader but was pushed to the side, but continues to speak up. He's been a subject of Kadryovian death threats back in the day.

 

[Mobbs]

Belgorod has some fires and stuff, they say its just brush fires, but residents are a mite toey.
"And this is Russian Belgorod about an hour ago. The Ministry of Emergency Situations says that only reeds are burning, however, the locals panic again. Some of them are nervous, why would it be."

 

[kranky al]

This whole thing couldnt have played better for america.

Unbelievable gift horse.

They get to attrit the hell out of the russian military, basically finish it as anything but a nuclear power - without losing a single american soldier.

They get to prove weapons on the battlefield getting more sales, give the military industrial complex its sacrifice for the decade.


Unites europe behind us leadership which trump had fractured.


And all at the same time as reminding china that its a generation behind with its military tech and just maybe forstall a war in taiwan.

 

[76woodenspooners]

That's chilling stuff btw. Thanks for sharing.

Perhaps not the best word to use there

 

[Mobbs]

This massive Z on the Ural Architectural Uni (which I think is in Ekaterinburg but unsure), got red paint chucked at it. Kolezev TG

Natalya Savoskina was arrested for carrying balloons in Ukrainian colours in Moscow. Spent a couple of nights in the lockup. OVD Info TG

Anton Gorban arrested for laying wrapped in a Ukrainian flag in Nizhy Novgorod. OVD Info TG

Dima Silin was giving away copies of "1984". The police decided this was illegal: arrested. OVD Info TG

In Moscow, investigation into the torture of protestors is dismissed, despite the proof being all over the ****ing internet.

In Russia again they cannot find torture. The Department of the Investigative Committee for Moscow did not conduct an investigation into the fact of torture in the Brateevo police department of the detained activist Alexandra Kaluzhskikh. This was announced in his telegram channel by Moscow City Duma deputy Yevgeny Stupin.

The Investigative Committee redirected the deputy's appeal to the Main Directorate of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Moscow for verification. Stupin also sent inquiries to the Office of the Investigative Committee for Russia and the Prosecutor's Office.

Recall that Alexandra Kaluzhskikh, who was detained on March 6 at an anti-war rally, was able to record a conversation with a policeman in the Brateevo police station. On the recording, you can hear how a police officer intimidates and insults her, and after the refusals of the Kalugas to testify, the sounds of blows are heard in the background. We published the Kaluzhsky story about that day.

An example of the proof of violent of mistreatment of the detained protestors at Brateevo can be heard here. I had referenced these back in early March, here, here, here & here.

But no, of course it's a minority. Of course its insufficient. Of course it's because of their 'blood'.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Report on reddit that only 54 crew survived the Moskva sinking

Also Admiral Igor Osipov Commander of the Black Sea Fleet has been arrested

Looking for things that might bring an end to this madness …

… there is yet to be official word of casualties from the Moskva.

If everybody survives then it’s probably easily brushed off as “shit we lost an old obsolete Cold War era ship”.

If there are catastrophic casualties … and they would be hard to hide from the family and friends of the people on that ship … then the Russian population must surely ask serious questions

For context, 118 people died onboard the Kursk when it sunk. The blowback from the families became a big thorn in the side of the Russian authorities after that …

I can’t find the original video from the time that showed things more clearly, but this vid below will have to do. What you’re seeing here is that shortly after the start of the video a female doctor attending to a grieving family member. The same doctor appears next to an outraged family member at the end. This video doesn’t show it clearly, but what was shown at the time is that female doctor was going around injecting sedatives into hysterical family members to calm them down.

 

[Power Raid]

Report on reddit that only 54 crew survived the Moskva sinking

Also Admiral Igor Osipov Commander of the Black Sea Fleet has been arrested

whoah

that's huge

 

[Festerz]

Can't wait for the next in the series of stamps from the Ukraine Postal Service, celebrating the achievements of this Russian flagship:

 

[Power Raid]

Yes Putin would arrest them all, or as many as he could latch onto and squeeze into a divvy van (until someone stops him, somehow). Russia already has had more people arrested in the last month or so than we've probably had arrested for protesting in our nation's entire history.
And he won't just arrest them all. He'll kill a few too. Something else we don't do here.

She's a minority in mathematical terms yes, but not the way you say it. I watch OVD and tend not to quote so many of them, because I notice nobody seems to give a fu**. The arrests just keep rolling on and on and on. A bloke working at the mayor's office in Elista (southern Russia) just got raided by the FSB yesterday ... for example. There's the four activists from DOXA, there's the woman who wrapped herself in a Ukrainian flag out front of the Kremlin. No point making a post for every single one of these.

They keep protesting and they keep getting arrested.

'Blood', in the metaphorical way you say it, changes with time.

If there is a coup in Russia............every FSB officer and their family needs to be executed. This is barbaric no doubt but the FSB serves the government not its people.........the FSB are the enemy of the people.

The penalty for being a traitor and enemy of the state is the death penalty.


For circa a century the Russian people have suffered under the KGB and FSB. Yet people happily join and families happily send their kids. This will serve as a reminder for a century that this was not OK.

 

[Mobbs]

Looking for things that might bring an end to this madness …

… there is yet to be official word of casualties from the Moskva.

If everybody survives then it’s probably easily brushed off as “shit we lost an old obsolete Cold War era ship”.

If there are catastrophic casualties … and they would be hard to hide from the family and friends of the people on that ship … then the Russian population must surely ask serious questions

For context, 118 people died onboard the Kursk when it sunk. The blowback from the families became a big thorn in the side of the Russian authorities after that …

I can’t find the original video from the time that showed things more clearly, but this vid below will have to do. What you’re seeing here is that shortly after the start of the video a female doctor attending to a grieving family member. The same doctor appears next to an outraged family member at the end. This video doesn’t show it clearly, but what was shown at the time is that female doctor was going around injecting sedatives into hysterical family members to calm them down.

This was really good to share, thanks. I only vaguely remember when this happened. This woman's tirade would carry some media weight right now.

But I also worry that everyone is actually more disconnected today, due to the narratives etc. The guy whose loss was reported back as KIA to Sakhalin resulted in parades of "hero" "hero" "hero" "nazis" "nazis" "nazis" so I am deeply concerned that any losses could be written up akin to suicide bombers finding glory through their sacrifice, and their losses tantamount to being celebrated instead of grieved. Hopefully I'm over-reacting.

 

[Mofra]

Report on reddit that only 54 crew survived the Moskva sinking

Also Admiral Igor Osipov Commander of the Black Sea Fleet has been arrested

"It has merely been promoted to submarine!"

People actually believing any Russian reports at this time need their heads read

 

[Power Raid]

Oh yeah it's true - an atrocity is a great teaching tool, but it doesn't change the fact of the 'cost'. I mean, it's easy to say that if you're not talking to people who are there. But I'll be sure to let them know your valuation ethic.

I really feel for them and find it disgraceful this the situation they find themselves in.

However if we look back at history "the west didn't win WW2, Russia did". The west did enough to stabilise the situation in the west and through Lend Lease, fuelled, armed and retooled Russia in the East.

Russia killed more Germans than anyone, Russia lost more than anyone, Russia did the heavy lifting to win the war. Russia then r*ped its way across Europe to claim states all through Eastern Europe.

The same will repeat with the west fuelling, rearming and retooling the Ukraine for their sacrifice. The only question outstanding is "is there a coup in Russia" or "how many mini wars and rape terrorism will it take for Russia to achieve its objective".



The russian people are the only people that can see a return to compassion and common sense. They need to take a stand.

 

[Mofra]

This whole thing couldnt have played better for america.

Unbelievable gift horse.

They get to attrit the hell out of the russian military, basically finish it as anything but a nuclear power - without losing a single american soldier.

They get to prove weapons on the battlefield getting more sales, give the military industrial complex its sacrifice for the decade.


Unites europe behind us leadership which trump had fractured.


And all at the same time as reminding china that its a generation behind with its military tech and just maybe forstall a war in taiwan.

Don't forget another enormous win - they now get live examples of Russia's military hardware to examine and probe for weaknesses, especially missile systems abandoned by Russian fiorces in-tact.

 

[Mobbs]

If there is a coup in Russia............every FSB officer and their family needs to be executed. This is barbaric no doubt but the FSB serves the government not its people.........the FSB are the enemy of the people.

No, you can indefinitely jail people without killing them.

 

[Jamolad]

Not a stamp collector - got to be probably 20 years or more since I used one - but I've got to have me one of those "Russian Warship go **** yourself" stamps!

 

[Mofra]

MSN

Interesting if true. Pre-war some suggested he'd be the closest thing to the next chosen leader as Putin's closest ally.
I guess lying about military capability to 'dear leader' gets a lot more difficult during an actual war with a committed opponent.

 

[madmug]

I have been wondering what they think about it and if they have been thoroughly brainwashed into believing they really are saving Ukraine, and by extension Europe and the world, from Hitler-style Nazism.

We have people here who still thinks Scumo Morrison cares about them. So anything is possible when it comes to media brainwashing.

 

[Mobbs]

I really feel for them and find it disgraceful this the situation they find themselves in.

However if we look back at history "the west didn't win WW2, Russia did". The west did enough to stabilise the situation in the west and through Lend Lease, fuelled, armed and retooled Russia in the East.

Russia killed more Germans than anyone, Russia lost more than anyone, Russia did the heavy lifting to win the war. Russia then r*ped its way across Europe to claim states all through Eastern Europe.

The same will repeat with the west fuelling, rearming and retooling the Ukraine for their sacrifice. The only question outstanding is "is there a coup in Russia" or "how many mini wars and rape terrorism will it take for Russia to achieve its objective".

Generally all true. I'm just having trouble accepting the concept of "acceptable losses" when there could be an alternative.

I have an issue with you suggesting execution of FSB families (considering thats repeating "their"* first crime) per Nick II but I can't be stuffed going down that path.
* not precisely but one was born out of the other

And I have other issues with what you said but it gets off-topic

 

[76woodenspooners]

This was really good to share, thanks. I only vaguely remember when this happened. This woman's tirade would carry some media weight right now.

But I also worry that everyone is actually more disconnected today, due to the narratives etc. The guy whose loss was reported back as KIA to Sakhalin resulted in parades of "hero" "hero" "hero" "nazis" "nazis" "nazis" so I am deeply concerned that any losses could be written up akin to suicide bombers finding glory through their sacrifice, and their losses tantamount to being celebrated instead of grieved. Hopefully I'm over-reacting.

OK, here’s a vid that clearly shows what’s going on … the doctor pulling out the syringe and sedating the outraged family member.

Seriously, imagine if our government tried anything like that kind of thing here? Or if it was done in the US?

 

[Visions]

So after a day of the crew was evacuated, its a limited fire on board, we are towing it to port, the Russian MoD have finally admitted defeat and claimed it has been sunk.

Think you will find that over the next week and the truth comes out, that Russia again were fibbing, that it never was being towed to port and that it actually sunk during the night a few hours after it was attacked, and that quite a substantial amount of personnel (in the hundreds) would have died with it.