Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 2

[Gethelred]

This is a sensitive area for some. With that in mind, I'm going to remind a few posters a few things:

• personal attacks are against forum rules. From this point, any attacks that are directed at another poster will be treated with a warning, then infractions and threadbans if it continues.
• the spread of misinformation is also against the rules. This is taken very seriously by moderation, and you will be asked to support your opinion from time to time. If you cannot satisfy this, you will be provided an opportunity to retract your post; if you do not, you will receive an infraction and a threadban on that basis.

This is a forum for adults, and I'd appreciate you all treating each other appropriately.

 

[76woodenspooners]

I really feel for them and find it disgraceful this the situation they find themselves in.

However if we look back at history "the west didn't win WW2, Russia did". The west did enough to stabilise the situation in the west and through Lend Lease, fuelled, armed and retooled Russia in the East.

Russia killed more Germans than anyone, Russia lost more than anyone, Russia did the heavy lifting to win the war. Russia then r*ped its way across Europe to claim states all through Eastern Europe.

The same will repeat with the west fuelling, rearming and retooling the Ukraine for their sacrifice. The only question outstanding is "is there a coup in Russia" or "how many mini wars and rape terrorism will it take for Russia to achieve its objective".



The russian people are the only people that can see a return to compassion and common sense. They need to take a stand.

Hard to imagine Putin being internally dislodged, but if it were to happen you’d think at a minimum it would need the tacit support of security services like the FSB.

 

[awaremind]

Just interested, everyone here is seeing only wins but Russia may have lost many battles but with China India and the Middle East strategically shifting towards Russia and South America and africas general hatred on the west, there’s some very worrying signs the strategic overall balance is shifting away from the previous world order and towards one where white people may face retribution. From all the nations they previously exploited and harmed. Indian media is saying very much - f@&$you to USA and the west at the moment, China is locked in and the uae and saudis are refusing to help squeeze Russian oil. Not looking great.

 

[Mobbs]

Nothing I've got says anything about that Shoigu rumour yet btw guys, sorry. It's only western reports thus far. Can't remember who posted it sorry.

 

[Visions]

Looking for things that might bring an end to this madness …

… there is yet to be official word of casualties from the Moskva.

If everybody survives then it’s probably easily brushed off as “shit we lost an old obsolete Cold War era ship”.

If there are catastrophic casualties … and they would be hard to hide from the family and friends of the people on that ship … then the Russian population must surely ask serious questions

For context, 118 people died onboard the Kursk when it sunk. The blowback from the families became a big thorn in the side of the Russian authorities after that …

I can’t find the original video from the time that showed things more clearly, but this vid below will have to do. What you’re seeing here is that shortly after the start of the video a female doctor attending to a grieving family member. The same doctor appears next to an outraged family member at the end. This video doesn’t show it clearly, but what was shown at the time is that female doctor was going around injecting sedatives into hysterical family members to calm them down.

Yet it took ages to even notice that they were missing, the admiral even after knowing they were missing straight out lied and said there were minor technical difficulties and that the crew was alive and they were pumping air and power to them. Then after all was said and done and they couldn't lie about the deaths anymore they had the gall to spin more sh!t and claim that it was involved in a collision with a NATO submarine.

The Russian military is just about the worst piece of sh!t on this earth, and has been forever. The more damage that Ukraine does to them, the better it is for the whole world.

 

[Visions]

http://[URL='https://www.msn.com/en...ec642b71421242d996a58923b9ce767c[/URL[/COLOR]

]

Interesting if true. Pre-war some suggested he'd be the closest thing to the next chosen leader as Putin's closest ally.
I guess lying about military capability to 'dear leader' gets a lot more difficult during an actual war with a committed opponent.

So is this the same heart attack he had a week or so after the war started and didn't appear in public for ages (with the Kremlin suggesting everything was fine), or is this a second heart attack after the first didn't work to kill him?

 

[Visions]

You might be the one to know about this cos you come from a military info sources perspective while I'm just the protesting and media shiz. But wasn't there a whole big deal once about Russia deciding to attack Japan yonks ago, so they sent off a massive fleet of ships from the North Sea, so had to travel this massive amount of distance around all Europe, up through the Indian Ocean and asian sea to get to Japan in order to launch the offensive ... taking like an eon ... and when they finally got there Japan just said 'plonk' and sunk basically the entire armada in an instant?

I just remember seeing this somewhere. Maybe my info is off, but it wow'd me. It is stunning sometimes how best laid plans ... just aren't always so well-laid at all ....

Here, watch this brilliant video. Its gives an hysterical overview of that voyage and a reminder of how the Russian Navy was as incompetent and crap in warfare back then as it is now. Nothing changes with them.

 

[Mobbs]

For mine, the lack of media footage of any foundering suggests the Moscow didn't waste time seeking a resting place. It's 2022, after all.

Also just wandered onto this (no idea of veracity) :

Here, watch this brilliant video. Its gives an hysterical overview of that voyage and a reminder of how the Russian Navy was as incompetent and crap in warfare back then as it is now. Nothing changes with them.

Thank you!!!!!

 

[GhostofJimJess]

MSN

Interesting if true. Pre-war some suggested he'd be the closest thing to the next chosen leader as Putin's closest ally.
I guess lying about military capability to 'dear leader' gets a lot more difficult during an actual war with a committed opponent.

I prefer to say that Defence Minister Shoigu has been ... err ... "decommissioned".

 

[Mobbs]

Here, watch this brilliant video. Its gives an hysterical overview of that voyage and a reminder of how the Russian Navy was as incompetent and crap in warfare back then as it is now. Nothing changes with them.

Oh god this was fantastic. I saw a serious reference once and even that made me laugh, but this had me in tears!

 

[Power Raid]

Hard to imagine Putin being internally dislodged, but if it were to happen you’d think at a minimum it would need the tacit support of security services like the FSB.

100%

The people and the FSB are the two key elements to change. The FSB until they flip will clamp down and oppress the masses. That's why holding the FSB to account, for the decisions they make is so important.

 

[Frank Grimes]

MSN

Interesting if true. Pre-war some suggested he'd be the closest thing to the next chosen leader as Putin's closest ally.
I guess lying about military capability to 'dear leader' gets a lot more difficult during an actual war with a committed opponent.

I'm starting to understand why people are afraid to tell Putin any bad news if true.

That type of behaviour has partially led to Hitler's and Stalin's downfall in the past.

 

[The Ghost of the KPF]

Here, watch this brilliant video. Its gives an hysterical overview of that voyage and a reminder of how the Russian Navy was as incompetent and crap in warfare back then as it is now. Nothing changes with them.

A couple of more in-depth views here. It really was a dumpster fire.

 

[Zidane98]

Just interested, everyone here is seeing only wins but Russia may have lost many battles but with China India and the Middle East strategically shifting towards Russia and South America and africas general hatred on the west, there’s some very worrying signs the strategic overall balance is shifting away from the previous world order and towards one where white people may face retribution. From all the nations they previously exploited and harmed. Indian media is saying very much - f@&$you to USA and the west at the moment, China is locked in and the uae and saudis are refusing to help squeeze Russian oil. Not looking great.

China are hardly shifting towards Russia. Thats quite a stretch.

And India arent going to be too happy with Russia dealing with China plus Pakistan which are Indias most hated countries by a long margin.

You have to understand India is heavily reliant on western technology, even more so than Russia. They arent going to jeopardise that just to fuel Putin's delusional dream of a modern day USSR.

 

[Mobbs]

"Unboxing" of Russian "Orlan" drone ... the Russian-made drone with ... curiously ... no Russian components ...

tldr; version : Russia says it costs about 120k USD each to produce. The guess by these guys puts them at about 3k USD a pop. There are numerous s******s throughout.

 

[madmug]

Just interested, everyone here is seeing only wins but Russia may have lost many battles but with China India and the Middle East strategically shifting towards Russia and South America and africas general hatred on the west, there’s some very worrying signs the strategic overall balance is shifting away from the previous world order and towards one where white people may face retribution. From all the nations they previously exploited and harmed. Indian media is saying very much - f@&$you to USA and the west at the moment, China is locked in and the uae and saudis are refusing to help squeeze Russian oil. Not looking great.

Funny how so many people from the nations you mention all want to go & live in the 'evil' west. Even the Russian Oligarchs & Chinese Billionaires. The wealthy & political leaders of the 'non' west nations like to stick corrupt money in the 'evil' west.

China is fighting itself more than anyone else. Otherwise its creating debt traps for 3rd world countries. Its not 'attracting' anyone.

India isn't anti west. Its a big non aligned country carving out its own direction.

Brazil is ruled by an ultra RWNJ.

 

[swingdog]

Here, watch this brilliant video. Its gives an hysterical overview of that voyage and a reminder of how the Russian Navy was as incompetent and crap in warfare back then as it is now. Nothing changes with them.

Very good, I knew this story (especially how they almost went to war with the most powerful navy in the world at Dogger Bank), but not the brilliance of stopping at Madagascar to take on random animals.

 

[Mobbs]

Town of Chita (wilds of Siberia):

Центр Читы снова перекроют из-за концерта (6+) в поддержку военных 15 апреля

Концерт состоится в 14.00.

www.chita.ru

“A large-scale all-Russian event - the thematic musical telethon “For the World - Without Nazism” will be held at 14.00 on Lenin Square. The Song and Dance Ensemble of the Eastern Military District, the Ensemble of the House of Officers, the Oleg Lundstrem Military Band of the 29th Combined Arms Army, artists of the Trans-Baikal Regional Philharmonic Society and the Youth Army will perform on the main stage of the city.

The event will be timed to coincide with the Day of Unity of the Peoples of Belarus and Russia. The marathon will be held at 12 sites - from Vladivostok to Kaliningrad in accordance with time zones from east to west, and will be covered on central television channels.

I think they mean today ... I dunno ... seems Russia is trying to have an east to west celebration of them being the only ones left in the world who don't think they're dickheads (apart from some pollies in Belarus)

 

[76woodenspooners]

"Unboxing" of Russian "Orlan" drone ... the Russian-made drone with ... curiously ... no Russian components ...

tldr; version : Russia says it costs about 120k USD each to produce. The guess by these guys puts them at about 3k USD a pop. There are numerous s******s throughout.

Nothing too surprising there.

Suspect something got lost in translation there between ‘Price to produce” and “purchase price”.

Purchase price will be factoring in design and development time and cost, paying for all the broken prototypes that didn’t survive, testing, risk of getting it through the military approvals process, the cost of the control system (not shown), etc, etc.

It’s very common to have a 4x parts to purchase price ratio (eg: a $1200 phone will only have around $300 worth of bits in it), and that multiple goes up for regulated industries like medical devices, aeronautical, etc. I’d imagine military would be top of the pile, and although 40x seems a tad excessive, it’s because of the way they’ve engineered a military qualified device using consumer grade subassemblies.

 

[Mobbs]

Nothing too surprising there.

Suspect something got lost in translation there between ‘Price to produce” and “purchase price”.

Purchase price will be factoring in design and development time and cost, paying for all the broken prototypes that didn’t survive, testing, risk of getting it through the military approvals process, the cost of the control system (not shown), etc, etc.

It’s very common to have a 4x parts to purchase price ratio (eg: a $1200 phone will only have around $300 worth of bits in it), and that multiple goes up for regulated industries like medical devices, aeronautical, etc. I’d imagine military would be top of the pile, and although 40x seems a tad excessive, it’s because of the way they’ve engineered a military qualified device using consumer grade subassemblies.

No idea what you said. Can't even understand the quote marks. Absolutely lost me start to finish.

 

[madmug]

I really feel for them and find it disgraceful this the situation they find themselves in.

However if we look back at history "the west didn't win WW2, Russia did". The west did enough to stabilise the situation in the west and through Lend Lease, fuelled, armed and retooled Russia in the East.

Russia killed more Germans than anyone, Russia lost more than anyone, Russia did the heavy lifting to win the war. Russia then r*ped its way across Europe to claim states all through Eastern Europe.

The same will repeat with the west fuelling, rearming and retooling the Ukraine for their sacrifice. The only question outstanding is "is there a coup in Russia" or "how many mini wars and rape terrorism will it take for Russia to achieve its objective".



The russian people are the only people that can see a return to compassion and common sense. They need to take a stand.

Simplistic view of the Eastern front in WW2. Russia relied heavily on Western war supplies.

China soaked up most of the Japanese army. Rampant Japanese army would have gotten through, taken India, through to Iran & linked up to the German forces. Any comment?

If Britain had lost the Battle of Britain they would have had to sue for peace. Freeing up another million men & associated equipment for Operation Barbarossa.

If Japan hadn't attacked Pearl Harbour, the USSR equipment supplies would not have eventuated. USAAF bombing of Germany may not have occurred. German industry would have supplied much more to the eastern front

If the USA didn't supply tanks to Britain in North Africa, they would have broken through, blocked Suez, & ended up with Iranian/Iraq oil supplies

The Allies won WW2 is the only interpretation

 

[madmug]

Nothing too surprising there.

Suspect something got lost in translation there between ‘Price to produce” and “purchase price”.

Purchase price will be factoring in design and development time and cost, paying for all the broken prototypes that didn’t survive, testing, risk of getting it through the military approvals process, the cost of the control system (not shown), etc, etc.

It’s very common to have a 4x parts to purchase price ratio (eg: a $1200 phone will only have around $300 worth of bits in it), and that multiple goes up for regulated industries like medical devices, aeronautical, etc. I’d imagine military would be top of the pile, and although 40x seems a tad excessive, it’s because of the way they’ve engineered a military qualified device using consumer grade subassemblies.

Don't forget the salami slicing of costs. Everyone is on the take so costs go up up up!!!

 

[kranky al]

MSN

Interesting if true. Pre-war some suggested he'd be the closest thing to the next chosen leader as Putin's closest ally.
I guess lying about military capability to 'dear leader' gets a lot more difficult during an actual war with a committed opponent.

Bullet in the back of the head, hit the skull and deflected off into the heart eh?

 

[BATTERY]

New Ukrainian owner

​

 

[Visions]

Very good, I knew this story (especially how they almost went to war with the most powerful navy in the world at Dogger Bank), but not the brilliance of stopping at Madagascar to take on random animals.

The Russian Navy has had many disaster over the decades. Here's one that occurred on land when much of the hierarchy got wiped out in one plane crash at Pushkin. The result of the crash, the greed of those on board who made the plane too heavy from all the luxurious loot they wanted to take back with them. Russians never change.

 

[Power Raid]

Another war to see how this plays out is Chechnya

Russia got a harsh lesson from the separatist state in Part 1.

Then in Part 2 of the war the Russians pulverised the state into submission. Rapes, decapitations, torture, murder, vacuum bombs that turned the lungs of civilians inside out.