Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 3

[CD Xbow]

perhaps what putin means is, just like in WW2 when russia decided to invade poland.............it resulted in unexpected bad outcomes



it is interesting the great patriotic war does not include the dates russia invaded poland and sided with the nazis

From what I have read, the Molotov Ribbentrop pact and the Soviets siding with the Nazi's is being written out of Russian history.

Added - this is from a few years ago, probably worse now

Molotov-Ribbentrop What? Do Russians Know Of Key World War II Pact?

The pact between Stalin and Hitler that paved the way to World War II is nearly taboo in Russia, where its 80th anniversary will likely go unnoticed.

www.rferl.org

I was struck by the unquestioning imperialism, historical distortions and the usual Russian habit of blaming someone else, in this case, the West. I can see how folks who think like this are easy fodder for Mr P's machinations and manipulations.

 

[Power Raid]

food for thought........we must always help nations after failure

 

[Zidane98]

food for thought........we must always help nations after failure

It's the cold war era mentality of some Russian leaders (ie Putin, Lavrov & co) that holds the nation back. The USA did plenty to help modernise Russia in the late 90s early 2000s. Infact without the US's help back then Russia would be stuck in the USSR era. There is no reason why a lasting friendly relationship couldn't have been built. Perfect example is the relation that the US & Japan have now which seemed impossible at the end of WW2.

What Russia needs is a modern progressive leadership that wants global integration. Not sure how Russia gets rid of its cold war era dinosaurs though - as long as they are alive they'll exert serious influence.

 

[Saint]

It's the cold war era mentality of some Russian leaders (ie Putin, Lavrov & co) that holds the nation back. The USA did plenty to help modernise Russia in the late 90s early 2000s. Infact without the US's help back then Russia would be stuck in the USSR era. There is no reason why a lasting friendly relationship couldn't have been built. Perfect example is the relation that the US & Japan have now which seemed impossible at the end of WW2.

What Russia needs is a modern progressive leadership that wants global integration. Not sure how Russia gets rid of its cold war era dinosaurs though - as long as they are alive they'll exert serious influence.

Russia was westernising, but when the people realised they were the wests' poor cousin, not a wealthy big country, they didn't like it. So when Putin promised they would be a big player again, the people voted for it and Putin tried to deliver.

But the reality is that it's a petro-state where most people live in what westerners would call poverty but they put up a big, rich facade. Most of Russia is pre-WW2 era infrastructure of railroads, few highways, no local roads. But they dream of united Russia being a big global power, but in reality their economy is about Australian-size which, if they admitted to it would be an embarrassment to them.

Russia think they rival Germany, but in fact their economy is less than half the size of Germany's.

Invading Ukraine was supposed to build their power and prestige, but has completely destroyed the facade they had created.

That is why this invasion is such a failure. It has exposed Russia for what it really is. All bluff and bluster and no substance.

 

[Zidane98]

Russia was westernising, but when the people realised they were the wests' poor cousin, not a wealthy big country, they didn't like it. So when Putin promised they would be a big player again, the people voted for it and Putin tried to deliver.

But the reality is that it's a petro-state where most people live in what westerners would call poverty but they put up a big, rich facade. Most of Russia is pre-WW2 era infrastructure of railroads, few highways, no local roads. But they dream of united Russia being a big global power, but in reality their economy is about Australian-size which, if they admitted to it would be an embarrassment to them.

Russia think they rival Germany, but in fact their economy is less than half the size of Germany's.

Invading Ukraine was supposed to build their power and prestige, but has completely destroyed the facade they had created.

That is why this invasion is such a failure. It has exposed Russia for what it really is. All bluff and bluster and no substance.

Pretty much says it all. The only way forward for Russia is to focus on energy revenue trading with western nations while developing renewables long term. Russia could rival the likes of India / China for manufacturing if they actually wanted to become a global partner.


For this to happen cold war era dreams of a new Russian empire really have to be crushed and the old guard removed from Russian leadership. Unfortunately for the average Russian Putin/Lavrov and co are probably going to be around for another 10 years or so at least driving the nation into the ground. The end result will be poor living standards for the average person, kinda like a Nth Korea on steroids. Just like Nth Korea Russia will become reliant on China for supply and China will then take advantage of this by taking over Central Asia, further weakening Russia's position.

And yes, highly embarrassing that Russia's economy is about the size of Australias considering their vast resources. That's on Putin & co who are more interested in colonial expansion then improving the Russian economy for the benefit of the everyday person in Russia.

 

[bourbons]

Scott Ritter

Oh lawd

 

[Zidane98]

Some North Korean brainwashing vibes coming out of this

 

[Zidane98]

perhaps what putin means is, just like in WW2 when russia decided to invade poland.............it resulted in unexpected bad outcomes



it is interesting the great patriotic war does not include the dates russia invaded poland and sided with the nazis

It was only released after the breakup of USSR the full agreement that they had with the Nazis to divide up Europe into spheres of influence. Nazis were gonna be the dominant power in western Europe / British Isles and USSR would take over Finland, Baltics, most of Eastern Europe.

 

[Roos9699]

Well she's gotten under the russians skins lol





Sadly this man lost his life



Izyium dna identification still being worked on.



Video from around Bakhmut

 

[wannabejack]

How The War In Ukraine Is Prompting The Czechs To Rethink Ties With China

Petr Kolar, foreign policy adviser to Czech President-elect Petr Pavel, says a phone call between Pavel and Taiwan's president is just the beginning of engagement with Taipei, as the Czech Republic aims to push allies across Europe to embrace the self-ruling island in the face of Chinese pressure.

www.rferl.org

The conversation [with Taiwanese President] marked a departure from previous norms for dealing with high-ranking politicians from the self-governing island. Official exchanges are often limited to civil servants and the lower levels of ministries. But Pavel became the first elected European head of state to speak directly with a Taiwanese leader.

"We shouldn't let China do to Taiwan what Russia is doing to Ukraine," Petr Kolar, a former Czech diplomat who advises Pavel on foreign policy issues, told RFE/RL in an interview. "I believe what's happening in Ukraine is because of [Europe's] lack of a clear message to Russia over the years. This was a wake-up call, and it shows how important it is to show from the very beginning that fellow democracies like Taiwan won't be abandoned."

 

[Hyakutake]

Looks like Blinken is the fly in the US ointment. I fear if he remains in post this wont end well.

 

[BATTERY]

 

[Zidane98]

Some words of wisdom by the Russians on 17th Feb 22:



Never believe anything until the Russians deny it.

 

[Satan]

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/top-putin-defence-official-falls-to-her-death/news-story/b833203e942c625590cfdde8a1d489e0

 

[faible]

https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/top-putin-defence-official-falls-to-her-death/news-story/b833203e942c625590cfdde8a1d489e0

Gee windows and balconies in Russia are dangerous.

 

[Visions]

Some words of wisdom by the Russians on 17th Feb 22:



Never believe anything until the Russians deny it.

Still applies now to their so called renewed spring offensive.

They have already started it, in fact it has been going on for a few weeks now but apart from a few trolls earlier in the piece, they haven’t said one word about it. Why? Because unlike when they first invaded almost a year back and advanced quickly, this time around their “big push” has had mixed results, ranging from limited gains around Kreminna to an outright catastrophe around Vuhledar.

No wonder they are quiet now and dont want to admit they dont have the firepower anymore for a larger takeover.

 

[Visions]

Gee windows and balconies in Russia are dangerous.

Still retains its undisputed, undefeated title while its awaits its next challenger.

 

[Zidane98]

Gee windows and balconies in Russia are dangerous.

Civilian military personnel now have a gravity exclusion on their life insurance policies in Russia.

 

[wannabejack]

China’s Growing Economic Support for Russia

Beijing is rejecting the G-7’s price caps on oil and potentially providing other important economic support for Moscow.

thediplomat.com

...there is growing evidence that the Chinese leadership, instead of seeking to wind down the war, is actually stepping up economic support for Russian President Vladimir Putin, implicitly encouraging Moscow to continue the conflict.

The Russian economy’s ability to withstand a long war is questionable, however, especially without Chinese support. Indeed, Alexandra Prokopenko of Carnegie finds that only North Korea is more dependent on Chinese imports than Russia.

It is increasingly clear that the Kremlin’s strategy is to outlast the West in Ukraine and leverage the conflict’s economic damage to tip the scales for Kremlin-friendly populists in European and, especially, North American elections. The Kremlin is willing to extend the war, in part, because it believes it will continue to receive Chinese economic support. While Beijing may not support all of Moscow’s goals in the conflict, it is also not opposing them.

 

[Zidane98]

China’s Growing Economic Support for Russia

Beijing is rejecting the G-7’s price caps on oil and potentially providing other important economic support for Moscow.

thediplomat.com

...there is growing evidence that the Chinese leadership, instead of seeking to wind down the war, is actually stepping up economic support for Russian President Vladimir Putin, implicitly encouraging Moscow to continue the conflict.

The Russian economy’s ability to withstand a long war is questionable, however, especially without Chinese support. Indeed, Alexandra Prokopenko of Carnegie finds that only North Korea is more dependent on Chinese imports than Russia.

It is increasingly clear that the Kremlin’s strategy is to outlast the West in Ukraine and leverage the conflict’s economic damage to tip the scales for Kremlin-friendly populists in European and, especially, North American elections. The Kremlin is willing to extend the war, in part, because it believes it will continue to receive Chinese economic support. While Beijing may not support all of Moscow’s goals in the conflict, it is also not opposing them.

They just want Putin to expend himself in Ukraine so they can take over as the dominant power in Central Asia. That's all they care about. Meanwhile they actively hamper Urals oil revenues by not accepting Russian self maritime insurance. China also refusing to support Russia's aviation industry - mostly because they value their aviation industry higher than supporting Russia's aviation industry to avoid sanctions.

 

[Cap]

They just want Putin to expend himself in Ukraine so they can take over as the dominant power in Central Asia. That's all they care about. Meanwhile they actively hamper Urals oil revenues by not accepting Russian self maritime insurance. China also refusing to support Russia's aviation industry - mostly because they value their aviation industry higher than supporting Russia's aviation industry to avoid sanctions.

They get a free vassal state out of this.

Russia will be an independent country by name only

 

[Cap]

Yikes

 

[Cuzz09]

drop in the ocean for old mate Vlad

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Visions]

Yikes

drop in the ocean for old mate Vlad

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

In one year they have totally surpassed a decade of Soviet losses in Afghanistan and US losses in Vietnam. Impressive.

One thing the UAF and Putin agree upon.

 

[Baldur]

Gee windows and balconies in Russia are dangerous.

Suspicious deaths of notable Russians in 2022–2024 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A quick count is 29.