Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 3

[Mobbs]

I don't think Ukraine want to make any concessions of territory. Definitely they are resistant to any additional concessions. And those prior to 2022 (Donbas and Crimea) have commonly been a talking point from Zelenskyy who refers to them as being in need of liberation. I do notice that Crimea gets much more mention than the regions in the Donbas do. I would suggest that Ukraine are in a position where changing stance to suggest conceding any territory would be a blow to their position of strong resistance.

RF alternatively are always going on with doublespeak about references that southern Zaphorizhzhe and Kherson's left bank are new territories. They have staged referendums, arranged municipal departments, altered steles at town limits (language and colour), removed and/or urged the moving of populations. Chicherina was seen getting her vomit-inducing head on media helping remove steles from some places. Both have end goals here which they are clinging to. There is only one town of major note which moved under RF control (Mariupol), thought some might suggest Berdyansk, Melitopol and the Severodonetskl/Lisichansk are significant. Energodar obviously has value.

Kherson was the only regional capital which was fully occupied, and it was liberated. Kharkiv came close - well to be fair Kyiv got a bit toey too at the start.

But its just surmisings from the other side of the world.

 

[Mobbs]

Can't get all through this now cos work calls but this is an interview with a Crimean Tatar activist:

I've managed 5 minutes before needing to put it aside and already its very interesting.

 

[Mobbs]

Guess I'll leave late. It was very interesting. The Russian myths summarised at the end were interesting, namely :
1. Russia claims there have always been Russians in Crimea. She states that prior 1783 (first occupation by Russia) there were no Russians there.
2. Russia claims Tatars are not indigneous because they arrived from Asia. She states that this is a lie they did not come from either Asia nor from Tatarstan (Tatarstan Russians and Crimean Tatars are essentially unrelated). I think she used the words "founded Crimea as a nation" but can't hear it clearly.
3. Russia claims Greeks were in Crimea prior the Tatars, so Greeks are more indigenous. She clarifies that Greeks colonised Crimea but had their own state therefore there is no indigenous foundation there.

 

[Cap]

This is getting interesting.

 

[Visions]

So on that attack on the Karakurt class corvette “Askold”.

Orcs claiming that they intercepted 3 missiles and falling debris caused some minor scratches to the ship.

You be the judge of their claims.

 

[wannabejack]

EXCLUSIVE: Videos Show Ukrainian Special Forces ‘Cleaning Up’ Wagner Fighters in Sudan

One of the videos purportedly shows Ukrainian operatives stalking the streets of the African city and engaging Wagner fighters at close range with RPGs.

www.kyivpost.com

"You can also recall the words of General Budanov that Ukraine will destroy Russian war criminals anywhere in the world, wherever they are,” Yusov also said.

In September, President Zelensky said he'd held an impromptu meeting with the head of the Sudanese Sovereign Council, Abdel Fattah al-Burhan, while travelling through Ireland's Shannon airport.
"We discussed our common security challenges, namely the activities of illegal armed groups financed by Russia," he said in a post on social media.

 

[Baldur]

So on that attack on the Karakurt class corvette “Askold”.

Orcs claiming that they intercepted 3 missiles and falling debris caused some minor scratches to the ship.

You be the judge of their claims.

 

[mighty tiges]

 

[Mobbs]

More substantial weaponry and even some vehicles have made it across the Dnipr over near Krymki.

 

[LittleG]

More substantial weaponry and even some vehicles have made it across the Dnipr over near Krymki.

This is either a master stroke

OR

Russia will spend the winter months building defensive lines between this new front line and Crimea…. This making it another stalemate line.


Ukraine needs a lot more artillery and missiles to be able to move fast enough for it to matter.

 

[Zidane98]

Quality work from the Orcs who published the address of their drone operation centre in temporaily occupied Donetsk

 

[ibd77]

This is either a master stroke

OR

Russia will spend the winter months building defensive lines between this new front line and Crimea…. This making it another stalemate line.


Ukraine needs a lot more artillery and missiles to be able to move fast enough for it to matter.

I have no idea on the geography in this area but I assume Crimea is not as winter affected in comparison to the northern region of Ukraine. It makes sense to keep the fight up in a different region where it is currently less defended.

 

[LewisHall]

Zelenskyy must be lying then.

Or maybe the media is lying.

Or "quiet talking" is not classified as "pressure". Politicians often play with words.

Either way. Hopefully it ends soon. The amount of people dying is terrible

 

[CD Xbow]

Or maybe the media is lying.

Or "quiet talking" is not classified as "pressure". Politicians often play with words.

Either way. Hopefully it ends soon. The amount of people dying is terrible

Yes it is terrible, if only stupid Putin hadn't got all fired up with dreams of Russian Imperialism there would be hundreds of thousands folks still alive, families and communities intact.

 

[Del198859]

Or maybe the media is lying.

Or "quiet talking" is not classified as "pressure". Politicians often play with words.

Either way. Hopefully it ends soon. The amount of people dying is terrible

I too hope the death, torture, rape, destruction, and genocide ends soon.

You realise though, only one outcome delivers that? Because none of that will stop with a ceasefire in place. It will merely accelerate in the occupied areas, and spread to the rest of Ukraine again when a resupplied and revitalised Russia launches its next invasion.

Or maybe that is a desirable outcome as far as you are concerned?

 

[Zidane98]

Looks like Russia have found a new supply of conscripts....

 

[wannabejack]

Or maybe the media is lying.

Or "quiet talking" is not classified as "pressure". Politicians often play with words.

Either way. Hopefully it ends soon. The amount of people dying is terrible

I'll be honest, and it's not a nice thing to say, but I have little sympathy for Russian "people".

 

[wannabejack]

US State Department denies pressuring Ukraine to negotiate with Russia

"We are not aware of any conversations with Ukraine about negotiations outside of the peace formula structure," State Department Deputy Spokesperson Vedant Patel said in a briefing on Nov. 7.

kyivindependent.com

The U.S. State Department denied reports that the U.S. has been urging Ukraine to participate in peace talks with Russia, Deputy Spokesperson Vedant Patel said in a briefing on Nov. 7.
"[A]ny negotiations...are up to Ukraine," Patel told reporters.

Zelensky acknowledged that the fatigue was real, but did not say Ukraine was ready to cede territory in exchange for promises of peace.
“We are not ready to give our freedom to this f***king terrorist, Putin,” he told NBC News.

Patel also said in the Nov. 7 briefing that the U.S. did not expect Russia to participate in meaningful peace talks.
"[T]he Kremlin has no interest in negotiating or ending this war, and we are committed to supporting our Ukrainian partners," he said.

 

[GhostofJimJess]

I'll be honest, and it's not a nice thing to say, but I have little sympathy for Russian "people".

I've about as much sympathy for any Putin collaborators and enablers as I do for American 2nd Amendment lobbyists who might get a cap in their arse.

 

[jatz14]

I too hope the death, torture, rape, destruction, and genocide ends soon.

You realise though, only one outcome delivers that? Because none of that will stop with a ceasefire in place. It will merely accelerate in the occupied areas, and spread to the rest of Ukraine again when a resupplied and revitalised Russia launches its next invasion.

Or maybe that is a desirable outcome as far as you are concerned?

You realise that the reason Ukraine will not do a peace deal at this point is because of the likelihood that Russia just uses that peace deal to do the revitalising and resupplying you seem to be worried about.

Why you mad at Ukraine for refusing to be complicit in the next major military offensive against them?

 

[jatz14]

I have no idea on the geography in this area but I assume Crimea is not as winter affected in comparison to the northern region of Ukraine. It makes sense to keep the fight up in a different region where it is currently less defended.

Its not the weather thats the issue, its the soil. Ukraine apparently has lots of very water absorbent soil, so it all turns to thick mud when wet, however, apparently the soil in the tokmak direction is different, so it doesn't absorb water, it drains.

Therefore, vehicles can still operate in this area at times they cannot elsewhere. Which is how Russia took the area to start with, and one of the reasons they pushed in this direction, if they can reach the area of this soil, they can keep going.

 

[CD Xbow]

On a Bulgarian site I found an alleged image taken from the dock of the damaged Russian corvette, Askold. Stick a fork in her, she's cooked.

 

[DaTBird187]

On a Bulgarian site I found an alleged image taken from the dock of the damaged Russian corvette, Askold. Stick a fork in her, she's cooked.

 

[Mobbs]

Russian forces fired at and hit a Liberian ship near Odessa. There are casualties.

The Ukrainian Armed Forces reported that Russian troops fired a missile at a civilian ship. The Liberian-flagged ship was entering a Ukrainian port when it was hit by a missile fired by a Russian fighter jet, the press service of the Defense Forces of southern Ukraine reported.

“The missile hit the superstructure of a civilian ship flying the flag of Liberia as it entered the port. Three crew members - citizens of the Philippines - were injured, one of them was hospitalized. The pilot was killed, another port worker was injured,” the command statement says.

According to Deputy Prime Minister Alexander Kubrakov, the ship was heading to a port to transport iron ore to China. This is already the 21st Russian attack on Ukraine’s port infrastructure since Moscow’s withdrawal from the “grain deal” in mid-July.

[ASTRA TG]
(story has been been repeated on other sources)

 

[Mobbs]

EU discussions re admitting Ukraine are underway, Zelenskyy's pumped for it (sorry lost the link where he says its a good news).

Here's a post about Hungary saying they'll block it and the EU saying cool story Hungary but we'll just go around you if we have to.

Hungary will oppose the admission of Ukraine to the EU until the "oppression of minorities" ends
TG post by Deepstate [link]

A member of the ruling Hungarian Fidesz party, Andrea Boskor, said [link below] that reducing the rights of minorities in Ukraine while the process of its acceptance into the EU continues is unacceptable. She also expressed her hope to be heard in the relevant European Commission, where she plans to raise this topic.

The Minister of Foreign Affairs of Hungary , Peter Szijártó, joined Boskor. He stated [link below] that no one wants Ukraine to join the EU and that it is impossible because the war is ongoing. He also accused Kyiv of "violating the principles of the European Union regarding national minorities." There were also words about non-observance of freedom of speech and mass media, failure to hold elections and poor functioning of legal institutions.

Earlier, Hungary threatened to block the allocation of $50 billion to Ukraine and to block its accession to the EU. It is believed that our neighbor is taking such steps to blackmail Brussels in order to unblock aid to Budapest.

On the other hand, the European Commissioner for Budget Affairs, Johannes Hahn, said [link below] that Hungary alone is not capable of blocking the allocation of the aid package to Ukraine or blackmailing the EU.
"We cannot be blackmailed" - the Commissioner notes. He indicates that the Union will find a solution that would bypass Hungary's position and allow normal decisions to be made regarding Ukraine.

Nested links re statements from [Boskor], [Szijártó] and [Hahn] (I haven't read them)