Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here:

Europe - Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/war-in-ukraine-thread-4-thread-rules-updated.1376293/page-146

www.bigfooty.com

If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or starts to derail the thread, report the post to us and we'll move it over there.

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[IlovethePies]

And no, it's nothing to do with Patriotism, you are an embarrassment to any group of people I can think of.

Apart from the Russians, they'd be loving what you say. I reckon they'd have you on the front lines, stopping that Nuclear war !

So what group of people am I an embarrassment to? You should be able to name at least one.

 

[Cap]

So what group of people am I an embarrassment to? You should be able to name at least one.

anyone not Russian, you can really take your pick.

I think MAGA would love you.

 

[IlovethePies]

anyone not Russian, you can really take your pick.

I think MAGA would love you.

Can you explain why you think MAGA would love me?
(I'm getting my popcorn ready)

 

[Bloods86]

Can you explain why you think MAGA would love me?
(I'm getting my popcorn ready)

They like authoritarians. You repeat the talking points of an authoritarian regime.

 

[IlovethePies]

PUTIN UPDATES RUSSIA's NUCLEAR POLICY

After high-ranking NATO officials publicly called for Ukraine to use NATO weapons to attack deep inside Russia, Russian President Vladimir Putin formally presented a proposed update to Russia’s nuclear policy that would expand the conditions under which Moscow would use nuclear weapons.

Speaking before a meeting of the Russian Security Council on Wednesday, Putin declared, “aggression against Russia by any non-nuclear-weapon state, but with the participation or support of a nuclear-weapon state, should be considered as a joint attack on the Russian Federation.”

He added, “We reserve the right to use nuclear weapons in the event of aggression against Russia and Belarus.”

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-says-changes-russias-nuclear-policy-are-signal-west-2024-09-26/

 

[Bloods86]

So what group of people am I an embarrassment to? You should be able to name at least one.

Embarrassment maybe isn't the right word, but for your own safety I probably wouldn't talk to Ukrainians about why they shouldn't receive support.

 

[IlovethePies]

They like authoritarians. You repeat the talking points of an authoritarian regime.

Nothing I have ever said suggests that I favour authoritarians.

On the contrary, everything I have said opposes authoritarianism.

 

[IlovethePies]

Embarrassment maybe isn't the right word, but for your own safety I probably wouldn't talk to Ukrainians about why they shouldn't receive support.

Not every Ukrainian agrees with Zelensky. In fact, opposition to Zelensky is rising. That is why he rules as a dictator, without elections, and banning all left wing opposition.

 

[Bloods86]

Nothing I have ever said suggests that I favour authoritarians.

On the contrary, everything I have said opposes authoritarianism.

No, if you opposed authoritarianism, you wouldn't be in favour of Russia being allowed to invade a non authoritarian neighbour, without them being able to receive support from allies.

 

[Bloods86]

Not every Ukrainian agrees with Zelensky. In fact, opposition to Zelensky is rising. That is why he rules as a dictator, without elections, and banning all left wing opposition.

Little of this is true, though he doesn't have 100% support obviously. No ruling party/leader in a democracy does. More Russian talking points.

 

[Zidane98]

I see repeating what other people say is one if your strengths.

Line 3 on the script.

 

[Zidane98]

PUTIN UPDATES RUSSIA's NUCLEAR POLICY

After high-ranking NATO officials publicly called for Ukraine to use NATO weapons to attack deep inside Russia, Russian President Vladimir Putin formally presented a proposed update to Russia’s nuclear policy that would expand the conditions under which Moscow would use nuclear weapons.

Speaking before a meeting of the Russian Security Council on Wednesday, Putin declared, “aggression against Russia by any non-nuclear-weapon state, but with the participation or support of a nuclear-weapon state, should be considered as a joint attack on the Russian Federation.”

He added, “We reserve the right to use nuclear weapons in the event of aggression against Russia and Belarus.”

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/kremlin-says-changes-russias-nuclear-policy-are-signal-west-2024-09-26/

Do you have the link to Russia's official nuclear doctrine that says this?

You are quoting Putin who is a proven bullshit artist.

 

[IlovethePies]

No, if you opposed authoritarianism, you wouldn't be in favour of Russia being allowed to invade a non authoritarian neighbour, without them being able to receive support from allies.

Oh my god...how many times must this be repeated??

I am not in favour of Russia invading Ukraine.

This is what i am saying:

The invasion of Ukraine is a product of imperialism, and the only way that the conflict in Ukraine, or in Gaza, or in Lebanon, or anywhere else, can be resolved is through world socialist revolution, by the working class led by its revolutionary socialist leadership.

Every single government:Biden's, Zelensky's, Netanyahu's, Putin's, Scholz's,Macron's, Sir Keir whatever's, Albanese's, ... are criminal representatives of a capitalist ruling class which the working class needs to start rejecting, en masse.

Because the numbers of the workign class far outnumber those of the capitalist parasites and their paid for political prostitutes, this is entirely practicable. It just needs a vast change in political consciousness.

Hope this makes it clear.

 

[Zidane98]

Not every Ukrainian agrees with Zelensky. In fact, opposition to Zelensky is rising. That is why he rules as a dictator, without elections, and banning all left wing opposition.

What a barefaced lie. Ukraine can't run electrons in war time because a fascist imperialist maniac is invading it.

You know this but choose to portray Zelensky as refusing to run elections.

An absolute lie to suggest Zelensky is a dictator and only someone of a pro Russian fascist standing could say as much.

 

[IlovethePies]

Do you have the link to Russia's official nuclear doctrine that says this?

You are quoting Putin who is a proven bullshit artist.

what...i linked reuters...you ...twit...no sorry, NAFOite.

 

[Bloods86]

Oh my god...how many times must this be repeated??

I am not in favour of Russia invading Ukraine.

This is what i am saying:

The invasion of Ukraine is a product of imperialism, and the only way that the conflict in Ukraine, or in Gaza, or in Lebanon, or anywhere else, can be resolved is through world socialist revolution, by the working class led by its revolutionary socialist leadership.

Every single government:Biden's, Zelensky's, Netanyahu's, Putin's, Scholz's,Macron's, Sir Keir whatever's, Albanese's, ... are criminal representatives of a capitalist ruling class which the working class needs to start rejecting, en masse.

Because the numbers of the workign class far outnumber those of the capitalist parasites and their paid for political prostitutes, this is entirely practicable. It just needs a vast change in political consciousness.

Hope this makes it clear.

Please read posts before replying.

You can keep repeating your (unjustified) excuses all you want, but the point still stands.

 

[Zidane98]

what...i linked reuters...you ...twit...no sorry, NAFOite.

You linked Reuters reporting what Putin said.

Now point us to the official Russian doctrine that says what you claim it does.

 

[Cap]

Can you explain why you think MAGA would love me?
(I'm getting my popcorn ready)

Because you parrot Putin talking points.

Save the popcorn.

 

[IlovethePies]

Bloods86

Huh...you are being duplicitous here. You said this:

"No, if you opposed authoritarianism, you wouldn't be in favour of Russia being allowed to invade a non authoritarian neighbour, without them being able to receive support from allies."

And I replied by saying, for about the nth time, that i have never been "in favour of Russia being allowed to invade a non-authoritarian neighbour"", and explaining why this is true.

Then you suggest that I haven't read your post??

Try arguing genuinely instead of silly point scoring.

 

[IlovethePies]

Because you parrot Putin talking points.

Save the popcorn.

Hey Cap, that's a circular argument.
Popcorn's really crunchy right now. Must be in season.

 

[Cap]

Oh my god...how many times must this be repeated??

I am not in favour of Russia invading Ukraine.

This is what i am saying:

The invasion of Ukraine is a product of imperialism, and the only way that the conflict in Ukraine, or in Gaza, or in Lebanon, or anywhere else, can be resolved is through world socialist revolution, by the working class led by its revolutionary socialist leadership.

Every single government:Biden's, Zelensky's, Netanyahu's, Putin's, Scholz's,Macron's, Sir Keir whatever's, Albanese's, ... are criminal representatives of a capitalist ruling class which the working class needs to start rejecting, en masse.

Because the numbers of the workign class far outnumber those of the capitalist parasites and their paid for political prostitutes, this is entirely practicable. It just needs a vast change in political consciousness.

Hope this makes it clear.

So you are happy to see Ukraine geoncided because your improbable world order scenario isn't happening.

How about we all agree to stop the genocidal maniac first, then worry about the socialist take over of society, because Putin won't care about your ideals as he bombs your house

 

[IlovethePies]

You linked Reuters reporting what Putin said.

Now point us to the official Russian doctrine that says what you claim it does.

Ha Ha

So now, any news source, even if it is a clearly recognised one (such as Reuters) is invalid if it quotes Putin!!

 

[Cap]

Hey Cap, that's a circular argument.
Popcorn's really crunchy right now. Must be in season.

there is no circular argument, you are unfortunately another useful idiot (I don't know a more polite way of saying that, is there a more polite way of saying that?)

 

[Cap]

Ha Ha

So now, any news source, even if it is a clearly recognised one (such as Reuters) is invalid if it quotes Putin!!

To be fair, Putin did say he wasn't going to invade Ukraine.

I'm pretty sure he also claims he doesn't bomb hospitals.....so what Putin says and what Putin does aren't the same

 

[Bloods86]

Bloods86

Huh...you are being duplicitous here. You said this:

"No, if you opposed authoritarianism, you wouldn't be in favour of Russia being allowed to invade a non authoritarian neighbour, without them being able to receive support from allies."

And I replied by saying, for about the nth time, that i have never been "in favour of Russia being allowed to invade a non-authoritarian neighbour"", and explaining why this is true.

Then you suggest that I haven't read your post??

Try arguing genuinely instead of silly point scoring.

Come on, you've put my original quote and then clipped it within the same post, then complain about me asking you to read.