Europe War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

[Gethelred]

Hey all,

Seeing as multiple people seem to have forgotten, abuse is against the rules of BF. Continuous, page long attacks directed at a single poster in this thread will result in threadbans for a week from this point; doing so again once you have returned will make the bans permanent and will be escalated to infractions.

This thread still has misinformation rules, and occasionally you will be asked to demonstrate a claim you have made by moderation. If you cannot, you will be offered the opportunity to amend the post to reflect that it's opinion, to remove the post, or you will be threadbanned and infracted for sharing misinformation.

Addendum: from this point, use of any variant of the word 'orc' to describe combatants, politicians or russians in general will be deleted and the poster will receive a warning. If the behaviour continues, it will be escalated. Consider this fair warning.

Finally: If I see the word Nazi or Hitler being flung around, there had better have a good faith basis as to how it's applicable to the Russian invasion - as in, video/photographic evidence of POW camps designed to remove another ethnic group - or to the current Ukrainian army. If this does not occur, you will be threadbanned for posting off topic

This is a sensitive area, and I understand that this makes for fairly incensed conversation sometimes. This does not mean the rules do not apply, whether to a poster positing a Pro-Ukraine stance or a poster positing an alternative view.

Behave, people.

 

[Chief]

You know Russian conscripts aren't allowed in foreign countries? Caused a bit of a stir when a few ended up there

Since when has "not allowed" stopped Putin from doing anything?

Both Ukraine and Russia are more than happy to use prisoners, Ukraine has shut its boarders to all military aged males trying to flee this conflict

So... Russia invades a foreign nation and that's exactly the same as a sovereign nation defending itself?


Yeah anyway show me where NATO did all the things Putin has done. I don't want to have to keep steering you back to the list from the side-streets you are trying to go down.

 

[barreness]

History suggests that the Putin would just wait for the world to shift its focus elsewhere and launch another invasion.

Peace between Russia and Chechnya.
The first, signed in mid-November 1996 by Maskhadov and Russian President Boris Yeltsin, focused on financial compensation and bilateral economic relations, while the second, signed on 12 May 1997 by Yeltsin and Maskhadov, formally established peace between Russia and Chechnya.
By the autumn of 1999, Russian troops were back in Chechnya. Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, the man soon to become Russian president, was vowing in soon-to-be-infamous terms to "wipe out" Chechen terrorists "in the outhouse."

History would also suggest that NATO will keep expanding

Chechnya is an internal state with separatists, different games. Grozny was pretty horrific tbf
Russia certainly feels some ownership(wrongly) over Ukraine, they were an individual SSR under the soviets and maintained a fair degree of internal control

 

[barreness]

Since when has "not allowed" stopped Putin from doing anything?

Since when has that stopped any nation with power

So... Russia invades a foreign nation and that's exactly the same as a sovereign nation defending itself?

No, just their tactics are similar. You raised conscripts

Yeah anyway show me where NATO did all the things Putin has done. I don't want to have to keep steering you back to the list from the side-streets you are trying to go down.

I can't, because it hasn't happened, not all the things. NATO's goals in Libya for example were to destroy the regime, not gain territory, there would be no point in shipping children around when the warlords can do that later

You can't just make up a list and demand that I fulfil it to prosecute the argument. When did Russia nuke a population centre?

 

[Mobbs]

Sorry to interrupt all the whatboutism, but currently the wars news out of Russia is hard to find due to a new dominating story about a hostage crisis in Rostov-on-Don, where prisoners have taken prison staff hostage. Every single source is talking about this right now so I am having trouble catching up with actual movements at the front.

Sure it's kinda sensational in its way, but the story is getting a surprising amount of attention.

 

[Visions]

Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan. Cool defensive actions

Please stop. You have no ****en idea on this.

First a while ago you said NATO caused the disintegration of Yugoslavia, then it was the IMF, now its turned circle back to NATO again.

You are so far out of you depth, its ****en embarrassing.

 

[Visions]

Sorry to interrupt all the whatboutism, but currently the wars news out of Russia is hard to find due to a new dominating story about a hostage crisis in Rostov-on-Don, where prisoners have taken prison staff hostage. Every single source is talking about this right now so I am having trouble catching up with actual movements at the front.

Sure it's kinda sensational in its way, but the story is getting a surprising amount of attention.

So just like the Moscow theatre massacre that was a failure of the new KGB that ISIS was responsible for, this crisis conducted by the same group will undoubtedly be pinned on Ukraine somehow by the muppets in the Kremlin.

 

[Visions]

Good news

Putin: Ukraine needs to surrender half its territory, because if they don’t Russian Forces might have to surrender 3 miles from the Russian border.

 

[jatz14]

Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan. Cool defensive actions

Howany of those forcibly incorporated into NATO or the European union?

How many of those were conflicts Nato entered into verse conflicts that started because NATO drove over the border and began shooting people?

On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Mobbs]

So just like the Moscow theatre massacre that was a failure of the new KGB that ISIS was responsible for, this crisis conducted by the same group will undoubtedly be pinned on Ukraine somehow by the muppets in the Kremlin.

Considering it's a hostage situation this time, unlike Crocus, I am fearful that Putin will send the gas in to solve problem like other hostage crises in the past.

 

[barreness]

Please stop. You have no ****en idea on this.

First a while ago you said NATO caused the disintegration of Yugoslavia, then it was the IMF, now its turned circle back to NATO again.

You are so far out of you depth, its ****en embarrassing.

NATO bombed Yugoslavia no? Cheeky side hit on the Chinese embassy, faulty intelligence no doubt

Yes capitalist forces affected Yugoslavia including the IMF, these things aren't mutually exclusive, in fact you might conclude there's a pattern

 

[Visions]

Considering it's a hostage situation this time, unlike Crocus, I am fearful that Putin will send the gas in to solve problem like other hostage crises in the past.

That's a given.

If you're a hostage caught in Russia, you might as well try and escape yourself because Russian special forces aren't so special. They always kill more hostages than the actual terrorists themselves. Just look at Moscow theatre and the Beslan school sieges.

 

[barreness]

Howany of those forcibly incorporated into NATO or the European union?

How many of those were conflicts Nato entered into verse conflicts that started because NATO drove over the border and began shooting people?

On SM-A346E using BigFooty.com mobile app

They weren't, that's the insidious thing about the American empire; you comply and you get some nice things(as a treat), you refuse and you get freedom rained down upon you

They flew over the border and indiscriminately bombed people, which is much better obvs

 

[Smeg Head]

India, Saudi Arabia, South Africa and the United Arab Emirates, all of whom have important trading relationships with Russia as members of the BRICS economic group, attended the weekend meeting but did not agree to sign the joint statement.


The document reaffirmed the signatories commitment to “refraining from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, the principles of sovereignty, independence, and territorial integrity of all states, including Ukraine, within their internationally recognized borders.”

South Africa happy to support a genocidal regime when there is money in it for them.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Translation: We got kicked out of Kherson, haven't been able to capture the 1 million population city of Zaporizhzhia, but we want you to lay down your weapons and surrender.

No worries dickhead!

I don't know what Putin is smoking, but i would like some as he's certainly not in the real world

 

[Aussie in exile]

History would also suggest that NATO will keep expanding

Chechnya is an internal state with separatists, different games. Grozny was pretty horrific tbf
Russia certainly feels some ownership(wrongly) over Ukraine, they were an individual SSR under the soviets and maintained a fair degree of internal control

Because of Putin's illegal invasion of Ukraine NATO has expanded

 

[Aussie in exile]

Russia must attack non NATO members to make countries stop joining NATO.

You know it makes sense.

That's worked out well for Putin hasn't it

 

[Chief]

barreness

I'm just saying that when put NATO up against Russia in the "murderous dictatorship" stakes - then you should prove your claim.

I set out one way I'd be convinced.

You then went off on tangents like Ukraine defending themselves.

You know Russian conscripts aren't allowed in foreign countries? Caused a bit of a stir when a few ended up there

Also I think it was a bit more than just a few.

America has plenty of crimes to answer to, I just don't think that means Putin is an innocent player swept along by history and the machinations of Russia's evil neighbours.

Multiple times Russia has shown that they use treaties to rebuild for their next land grab. Stuff em.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Not the news our resident Russian apologist wanted to hear

MSN

 

[Aussie in exile]

barreness

I'm just saying that when put NATO up against Russia in the "murderous dictatorship" stakes - then you should prove your claim.

I set out one way I'd be convinced.

You then went off on tangents like Ukraine defending themselves.



Also I think it was a bit more than just a few.

America has plenty of crimes to answer to, I just don't think that means Putin is an innocent player swept along by history and the machinations of Russia's evil neighbours.

Multiple times Russia has shown that they use treaties to rebuild for their next land grab. Stuff em.

Lets also not forget how opponents of Putin are killed in Russia and others put in prison on trumped up charges.

 

[Zidane98]

MSN

barreness reckon Putin will accept the invitation to the peace conference in Switzerland? He is after all seeking peace so should really turn up.

 

[Aussie in exile]

MSN

barreness reckon Putin will accept the invitation to the peace conference in Switzerland? He is after all seeking peace so should really turn up.

This is as well. It's all gone horribly for war monger Putin.

MSN

 

[Zidane98]

There is absolutely zero reason for Ukraine to even consider Putin's delusional offer.


Zelensky has said he is happy with a cease fire and to negotiate with Putin once all Russian military personnel vacate Ukranian territory. That's a far more reasonable proposition.

 

[Aussie in exile]

There is absolutely zero reason for Ukraine to even consider Putin's delusional offer.


Zelensky has said he is happy with a cease fire and to negotiate with Putin once all Russian military personnel vacate Ukranian territory. That's a far more reasonable proposition.

Putin thought that the West wouldn't react to his illegal invasion. How wrong he was and now his bankrupting Russia for his own ego.

 

[Zidane98]

 

[Baldur]

As Prices Rise in Supermarkets, Russian Families Suffer - The Moscow Times

Opinion | “The frenzied demand in the Russian food market has already subsided," Vladimir Putin said the other day.

www.themoscowtimes.com

So what happens when the people of St Petersburg cannot afford bread?

February Revolution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org